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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1334330169' post='1614734'] Yesterday a band came round to collect an amp for their bassist. The guitarist stood next to two head high stacks of amps, and asks 'do you have any guitar amps?' [/quote] LOL

If you were to say: "The majority of guitarists using Line6 modelling amps for high gain tones sound crap and don't cut through, but they manage a decent tone on recordings" I would have to agree. According to my experience, almost all players of modelling amps don't set them up very well. That it's so difficult for so many is a massive draw-back, and so i'd never argue that modelling amps are better than the alternative. In the studio they'll generally get a hand from the engineer, if not before tracking then after. but, it deffinitely can be done

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1334326099' post='1614616'] All of the manipulation that happens inside modelling units is manipulation[/quote] As opposed to the manipulation happening inside non-modelling units?! [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1334326099' post='1614616'] The biggest problem for me is that live, high gain sounds never fit in the mix properly, they seem to behave like scooped tones where they can sound great on their own but when they go into a mix they disappear. [/quote] If your scooped tone dissapears, you remove the scoop. If your tone's not cutting through, you change it until it does. I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to turn down the gain and up the mids on a POD

therefore if your guitar rig works in the studio you can guarantee it works live. Logic prevails!

As far as revealing neuances in a "tone" I think we can all agree studio conditions are far better than live.

so you can mic or DI a modelling rig and get a great sound in the studio, but as soon as you mic it or DI it at a gig it's no longer a great sound. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If my sound wasn't working live there's no way i'd use it in the studio.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334315783' post='1614312'] Recording in a studio and live are two completely different things [/quote] In terms of the sound coming out of the guitar rig, they're the exact same thing?!

take breaks from it. Play it on other systems. Compare it to other mixes you like the sound of on the same monitoring system. Have sh*t loads of patience... That's as far as my amateur advice gets

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334315266' post='1614298'] [color=#222222]am not saying that there is not a role for digital stuff when recording, just that I don’t think that it is as good live…..[/color] [/quote] If you're amped up through a mic, desk, PA then why would it sound any different to being amped up through a mic, desk, studio monitors?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334313767' post='1614239'] Maybe in the studio but not in live situations from what I've been given to understand [/quote] Why would it make any difference? Unless you're not using a PA to re-amp the guitar amp, in which case it's not a comparable situation If you've ever moved a mic around in front of a guitar amp with headphones on monitoring it, you will know the drastic differences in tones you can get just with placement. Obviously you need a decent sound coming out of a cab to mic up. My point is that the difference between a well set up modelling amp and the real thing, is minute compared to the difference between the real thing mic'd on the center of the cone or at the edge. There is a point where the subtleties are too subtle to matter.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334312293' post='1614198'] There are a lot of people who call themselves sound engineers who couldn't mix concrete! They tend to be the ones who are the most nerdy about gear, mic placements and special techniques - the pros a lot less so.... [/quote] Surely mic placement has the same or more influence on guitar tone than the actual amp

The guitarist in one band I play in uses a H&K half stack. It sounds nice but it's pretty muddy. I've tried to get him to use his 2 x 12" modelling amp but he likes the fact the H&K is a seperate head and cab. the guitarist in another band I play in uses an original POD with floor controller. It sounds absolutely amasing. It does take him a while to create a new sound, but he hardly ever does that. The fact is this guy has been gigging for years with his POD (including touring Europe etc) and he's learned exactly how to handle it. Another thing - it's not just digital versus analogue or valve. How many people would DI a guitar in the studio? Everyone "knows" that it'll sound better amped up and mic'd up. I've been recording guitars recently, DI'd straight from a pedal. I then add some EQ and compression on the computer and it sounds better than any of the amps I have at my disposal. Anecdotes are never going to solve this debate though. I'd love to take part in some blind tests!

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1334311096' post='1614155'] The kit is getting better all the time (thanks Beatles) but I remain to be converted. [/quote] You're thanking the Beatles for digital modelling?

I think a big problem with this debate is that loads of guitarists will set their modelled sounds at home at practise volumes, and then wonder why it sounds sh*t at a gig.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334250184' post='1613287'] And the moral of this story….. [/quote] Your mate couldn't set his digital amp right!

an arpeggiator would have a rhythm to it I'm sure you can get your computer to tell the moog to drone. Do you have a DAW on your computer?

sure, a big monitor would do, but not all venues have them, so best to carry one around. What sort of big monitors would be appropriate for supplying a good on stage sound? Oh yeh, a bass amp!! I don't think it matters whether the amp is digital or not but I want an amp to rehearse and gig with, that's all

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334139300' post='1611346'] I can't see any reason to be using such a limited and old fashioned artefact as an analogue bass or guitar amplifier and speaker cabinet either miced or DIed into the PA or recording device. [/quote] I agree with everything except this. It's fun!! I have played gigs with no bass amp - just a bit of bass through the monitors. It sounds great out front through the PA but crap on stage. It's more fun when you have a great sound on stage. I used to carry around a rather large rig to gigs where the bass rig was shared, just because I wanted my own sound on stage, because it makes it more fun. Likewise at rehearsal - I need a bass rig, otherwise i'll have no fun

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1334053117' post='1610056'] Hooray for cheap, sentimentally worthwhile FX pedals. [/quote] I have an ARIA Auto Wah which is in the same casing and sounds great. My other cheap crap one is an Arion analogue Delay - sounds ace!

I have a Yamaha one, I think it's tuned to G at the moment. I have the fender baritone strings on it but they won't go down to E - it's just too slack. It sounds great. With some pedals it could maybe pull off a bass tone for the odd bass line, but it couldn't replace a bassist in a band IMO.

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1333886029' post='1607708'] Heres mine - the space between the Rat and the Pulsar will soon be filled with an Al Heeley special delay EDIT: Ive not yet trimmed the patch leads - once Ive figured out where everythings going to live I'll shorten them properly. [/quote] what's the pedal with the battery cover off? I have one that's similar

ahh, cool. Well, I like your board, i've seen it on a couple of sites now, I think the Ikea product is a "Gorm"? It looks really professional.

what's that fiendish looking device in the bottom left?

One of the bassist I play with counts in one of our songs. It starts on the 3rd note of the bassline, so he counts us in, but he doesn't get that "the one" is on his third note, so he counts 1, 2, 3, 4 and then plays 1, 2, and we all come in on the following 3 which is actually a 1. It's pretty embarassing on stage as people can hear him count it in

My worst one was getting to a gig (as a drummer) and being convinced i'd forgotten my stool. I set up the PA and everything, made sure everyone else was OK then drove back to the studio to get my stool. It's disappeared?!?! I go back and do the gig on a bar stool (not the first time) but when I load all the gear out into my car, the bloody stool is in the back hiding under the driver's seat! ARRRGH!