Fat Rich

Just had my first lesson, now my brain hurts! It's been a long time since I've been taught anything, and even longer since I've learned anything. I knew my reading skills were very rusty but it seems I can't read and play upright at the same time need to do some serious practising there. As has been said on this thread, there's no substitute for having someone show you the right way to play, and then looking over your shoulder to stop you slipping into sloppy technique again. The G always felt a bit out of reach and I was aware my left hand position wasn't great, having repositioned the bass, my arm and my thumb, already it's feeling better. Very impressed with my teacher, she got me started on Simandl, is happy to teach without the bow and she's a lefty who plays righty like me. She gave the bass a thumbs up too, which is great news. Right, I'd better get on with it then!

[quote name='sshorepunk' timestamp='1348508748' post='1814571'] I always used to assume that there were some quality issued through the mid 70's at Fender, until around '78? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one, it's always been in my head that one! [/quote] I've got a 78 Jazz and it's 'orrible Actually, it sounds nice for slap and Jaco type bridge pickup playing but otherwise has an unpleasant honk and weighs a ton (a bit like it's owner).

I've only got a couple of ADF albums, but really like his sound and playing on it. I've always said Status basses don't have to sound scooped and clattery, but I'm still surprised!

Never knew he played Status.... very surprising!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348433063' post='1813650'] Basschat and many other forums hold the MIJ Fenders in very high regard. All I was saying is that they are good, but worth no more than usual. Hype comes to mind. [/quote] I'm a fan of MIJ Fenders, they're very good basses. But they're only [i]fantastic[/i] basses if you factor in value for money, and maybe if you put better pickups in too. I've an MIJ 62 Reissue that was a very good bass as standard, I sanded off all the sharp edges and put some new Fender Vintage pickups so that it sounded and felt really close to my old '62 Jazz. But it doesn't resonate like a good pre CBS, and it's covered in poly finish so it looks a bit plastic even after 25+ years of abuse.

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1348322014' post='1812313'] Blimey, this is bigger [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOhwt7uMutY&feature=fvwrel[/media] [/quote] Blimey, that is bigger [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348312168' post='1812170'] Have you got a bow? I've got a spare cheap French bow you can have if you want one, I'd be happy to send it to you in return for a donation to BC. [/quote] That's a very kind offer, I'll see how I get on with the lesson tomorrow and if I can sneak through without bowing. If not, by return I'll send you a set of electric bass strings of your choice plus a donation to BC

[quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1348253334' post='1811558'] Really pleased for you. I found once I gigged the DB for the first time there was no going back. Much prefer DB to electric these days. Are you enjoying the physical aspect of playing it? I tend to dance with mine, well..smooch. love it! [/quote] It's getting less physical the more I get used to it, some way away from dancing with it at the moment! I've got a lesson booked with a pro player for Monday, I'll see what she says about bowing as it's not something I want to do unless it's ultimately going to save me a lot of time improving my intonation. There seem to be books purely on bowing technique, seems like I might spend a lot of time learning a technique I don't really need. I've played unlined fretless basses for a while so I'm used to playing with my ears rather than my eyes, maybe that'll help me along. I'm probably never going to be a serious player, just something I'll do for fun and relaxation. I do like to do things right, or if I decide to play unconventionally (I mess about on drums ambidextrously, no crossed arms which surprises some people) it's because I've given it serious thought and worked out that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Still, I'm not ruling anything out at this early stage.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1348274766' post='1811898'] ................. The camera was slightly above me on the first picture so the bass actually looks lower than it is! Plus I'm standing up straight in the second picture [/quote] There's your answer. Simply lean forward while you play.

Spent another hour or so on it today, it feel less like cuddling a wardrobe and more like playing an instrument. I've just been playing 12 bar walking lines in E, using lots of open strings to check intonation and I'm starting to be able to find the notes I want a bit better. Still get totally lost sometimes although that's partly from trying to remember chord tones, chromatic approaches, tritone substitution, turnarounds and other stuff that's got buried under 20 years of rubbish in my head. Still no aches and pains, everything feels fairly comfortable. I seem to be getting a good tone out of it whether I play hard or soft, also more consistent volume levels from each string and between fretted / open strings. Put some feelers out for lessons but haven't heard back. Thanks again for all the comments and advice!

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1348242558' post='1811353'] I can honestly say I have no idea what the big guy was talking about when he said this hearing it LOUD was better than hearing it soft ? ? Just seemed like chin stroking seminar nonsense to me. Where everybody nods their heads and pretends to understand while they have no idea whats going on. In these situations I always put my hand up and say "sorry but I don't understand" and find out most other people didn't either. So here goes [center][size=5]Sorry but I don't understand[/size][/center] [/quote] It might not work for everybody, best way to find out is to try it. Record yourself playing some phrase normally, then yell the phrase to yourself, give it some beans and play it again. It'll probably sound different, maybe more dynamics will come through. Easy to find out.

Hope to be there! [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. Hamster - Fender Hotrod P/J, Bareface Compact, Auralex Gramma Pad, SFX Thumpinator; either Markbass 800 Tube or Ampeg PF500 Portaflex[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. BigBeatNut - Rob Allen Deep 5, Status Electro, Lakland 55-02 Fretless, Markbass CMD121P, a selection of SFX micro pedals[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. Stingray5 - Musicman StingRay5 and Stingray fretless, Tune TWB-6, Trace Elliot BLX-80 combo, Boss GT-6B fx, Gramma Pad, (+ raffle bits & freebies).[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]4 OBBM - undecided on basses but Schroeder cab(s) and mini-rack Mk2 (+raffle bits)[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]5. Charic (tentative) - ACG Finn 4 (Drop C tuning), Yamaha RBX6JM, Modded Fender MIM, TC RH450, 2 x TC RS210, Line6 DL4 (delay pedal), Behringer Chorus Pedal[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]6. Happy Jack - Ampeg Baby Bass and (just for OBBM) at last I'll bring along a Hofner Verithin. If there's enough (any) interest, I could also bring along a Fishman Fusion pedal plus a rig to play through.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]7. Macdaddy - custom shuker or custom Iceni Zoot or Hamer Blitz + raffle bits[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]8. Billyapple - Gibson Thunderbird, Un-Finished Wishbass Lobe, Matamp GT200 Head, Matamp 212 Cab, DHA VT1 Eq[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]9. Walman - (assuming it'll all fit in the smaller car I got last year as I was cutting down on gear ) Wal Pro1/Custom hybrid, 2 x G&L L2500 US, Tanglewater ClassicJ, Roland PK5 bass pedals w DSI MoPho synth, GenzBenz Streamliner 6, BF Super12T - alternatively a poll on which to bring may be required[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]10. OliverBlackman- going to bring the Tokai as it seems in a recent thread not many have experienced the 80's Jazz sounds.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]11. Shockwave - Gibson RD and Gibson Grabber or Fender P-J Antigua.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]12. dc2009 (tentative) - Warwick Corvette $$ 5 Special Edition, Lakland Skyline 55-01. Sansamp, SYB-5, Q-tron+, BSY600. Anything more will need a lift![/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]13. Eude (tentative) - ACG Finn SC Classic BO 5 string 33" Scale, ACG Finn SC Classic BO 6 String 33" Scale, Ibanez Promethean 5110C & EAD Foundation 112 3-way Prototype.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]14.Bloodaxe (tentative) - Aria SB-1000 Frankenfretless, Ibanez Promethean 5110C [might add the SB-900 & Bloody ZZB Custom to this if anyone's driving from E or SE postcodes & I can blag a lift][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]15. 51m0n - the usual guff (Roscoe, Berg, MB blah blah, if in doubt check my sig) + a very tentative PluxTheDuck & related kit[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]16. Urb - Sei bass plus laptop (maybe) and my fingers[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]17. Seashell - Fender Precision (MIM) and Ibanez SRX500. No rig![/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]18. Merton - multiscale 5 prototype, other things maybe, like Mikey's sleeping bag[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]19. Russ - Sei Bass 5-string fretted singlecut, Sei Bass 5-string fretless J, Ampeg SVT-7, Markbass 106H[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]20. Silverfoxnik - Roscoe Beck 5, Schecter Diamond P 5, BC Rich Eagle, Hughes & Kettner Bassbase 600 head, SWR Triad, Boss ME-50B[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]21.Bassmanady-Yamaha BB 2005,Yamaha BB605[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]22. Hen Barn - Status Kingbass[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]23. 6feet7 - matching pair 1999 Fender Hotrod Precision & Jazz basses, GUS G3 Retro Active[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]24.Barneyg42 -Status S2 classic 5 headless, Status series 1 five, NGC Nanyo Bass Collection fretted and fretless,MXR pre into Crown poweramp into Acme low B and Barefaced Compact[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]25. Ashwood1985 - Streamer $$ 5, Thumb BO4, Silver Series Jazz Squire, maybe SR1000 FL, Roland D-Bass 210 combo, Sansamp BDDI, EBS Unichorus and IQ, maybe Bassmurf[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]26[/font][/color]. ped - Vigier Passion, S2 1988, Roland V-bass, arse hair clippers [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]27.TheGreek - the unsellable Overwater J4, possibly my custom headless, GK backline 110[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]28. Sibob - Barefaced Compacts, Markbass LMII, Genz Benz Streamliner 900 (probably for sale), '71 Precision, '03 or '73 Jazz. Effects?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]29.JHK-(99% sure) GB Spitfire five,TRB6P,TRB5P,MM Stingray five fretless,probably a little bit of EDEN gear.[/font][/color] 30. Fat Rich - 70s P and J basses, 5 String Status S2, Hartke XL410[/size]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1348231516' post='1811170'] That's why Jazz swings, the 2 and 4 pulse. [/quote] Yup, but can also sound a bit cheesy if over emphasised. I think the video was deliberately trying to iron out the subconscious accenting of 2 and 4 so the player has complete control over where to put the accents. His playing immediately sounded more fluid as a result. It probably applies more to pianist and soloists, it's maybe our job as rhythm section to make it swing.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348218644' post='1810908'] I looked through a few of his vids, they are really thought provoking and make so much sense, so very clever too. I also bought the Kindle edition of the book he mentions, Art of Piano Playing (A Scientific Approach) by George Kochevitsky (£2.28 on Amazon, £2.40 for the paperback), I have had a quick dip in and it's already looking fascinating! Kindle [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-of-Piano-Playing-ebook/dp/B004HFR5KC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348218446&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co...48218446&sr=8-1[/url] Paperback [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Piano-Playing-George-Kochevitsky/dp/0874870682/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348218446&sr=8-2"]http://www.amazon.co...48218446&sr=8-2[/url] [/quote] I liked the demonstration where they counted 1 and 3 only instead of 1,2,3,4 and the difference in feel it produced. Also playing the first 5 notes of a scale and only listening to the tone of the piano to determine the tempo. On a stringed instrument where we have so much control over the tone the possibilities are a bit mind blowing

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348184167' post='1810704'] If it's a ply bass it's probably sturdier than it looks and the neck joint will be the weakest spot - avoid smacking the pegbox on anything and don't let it fall over. If it's a carved bass then avoid smacking [i]anything[/i] on anything because they chip and split with a lot less effort! [/quote] Yes, it's ply so hopefully I won't break it! [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348184167' post='1810704'] It's a good idea but it's a bit of a Catch-22, the bow. If you bow your bass it will be way, way louder than if you pluck it, and when you first start bowing you will sound considerably worse than you do when you pluck, so there's going to be a period of playing horribly - AND LOUDLY - to get over. I can't help the feeling that my neighbours can hear it, so I hardly ever get the bow out. Shame because I do like the sound (when it works). [/quote] Neighbours won't be a problem, I'll see what a teacher says but it sounds like they'll probably want to go the bow route. [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1348209115' post='1810743'] Two comments from me to add to the above 1. Get a lesson asap - its invaluable to set your posture and technique on the right road. There are a few DB players on BassChat that teach in the London area such as jakenewmanbass (I can recommend him strongly) and chrkelly (not had a lesson but super nice guy) 2. I gig DB in my band and cannot play arco for toffee - I don't feel the need to learn either (although I do have a bow) as the music I play (folk/blues/country/flamenco) simply doesn't require it. Some strings don't work for playing both arco and pizz and an arco setup usually requires higher action than a pizz-only setup, although personal tastes can obviously vary widely about string height (some like it Ray Brown-style high to get more plucking volume, I prefer it low as I have to play a lot of fast lines). In short, learn arco if you want the broadest DB experience but its not necessary for many types of music. Your call here [/quote] What's considered a high action? Mine is currently 12mm on the E down to 10mm on the G. [i]Edit: Action measured at the end of the fingerboard, I've done a few searches and action seems to vary from 7mm up to 18mm so I guess mine is probably about where it should be.[/i]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll get some lessons sorted out ASAP. Judging by the clips I've seen I don't think I'm plucking too hard, I'll experiment with a lighter touch and try to understand the nuances. Plus I've played it probably an hour and a half this evening without straining any muscles or causing myself any aches or pains which is probably a good sign. I'm doing all the things I do on electric bass, keeping everything relaxed, trying to keep my hands and wrists fairly straight, not waggling fingers too much or pressing too hard into the fingerboard. My plucking technique looks pretty much like the ones on the clip, just a bit clumsy at the moment till I get used to it. Hopefully the bass is in pretty good shape, although it wasn't expensive it was used by a pro player: [url="http://www.canalplus.fr/c-divertissement/pid3301-c-concert-prive.html?vid=397008"]http://www.canalplus.fr/c-divertissement/pid3301-c-concert-prive.html?vid=397008[/url] It's going to be a while before I get up to speed, but definitely enjoying the challenge of learning something new!

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1348159391' post='1810223'] I didn't know that, is it a problem brought on by age/use? Because I've had mine for a year and a half and only noticed it recently [/quote] Age and use shouldn't affect it. Some basses have problems, some don't. Changing guage of strings sometimes makes it more noticeable, truss rod tweaks occasionally too. Also if you've lowered the action maybe you're playing a bit more gently which has made you aware of the problem? If you were giving it more welly you may have been compensating without realising.... and when you get used to the new setup and dead spots you might find you subconsciously fix it again with your playing.

I've seen a few and not noticed a problem with gaps. Some pretty shoddy neck joints came out of the Fender factory that way as standard anyway I think some of the Japanese necks have a slightly different shape, maybe they're less interchangeable.... I put a new Fender pickguard on my 62 Reissue Jazz and had to some serious filing to make it fit.

Picked this up last night, first time I've played an upright and I'm amazed at how physical it is: [IMG]http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx159/richardmatthews_photos/forum%20stuff/uprightandJazz_zps3865b6c8.jpg[/IMG] Makes my usual bass look like a toy! I had a few quick goes on it, I'd heard that it's like learning a new instrument but I don't seem to be having too much trouble transferring some walking lines onto it so far. Early days though! I'm going to get a few lessons so I don't pick up too many bad habits... meanwhile I've a few questions if you don't mind indulging an idiot. 1. How delicate is this thing? Is there a right way of lifting / carrying it? It came in a canvas bag, I'm thinking I should probably get something that'll protect it a bit better. 2. How hard should I be plucking the strings? I had a quick go at Spencer.b's house when I picked it up, he said to pluck harder and the bass seemed to come alive... but will I damage it if I play too hard? 3. I've had a look at some teachers and some Youtube vids that seem to advocate the use of a bow, partly to help improve intonation. Is this really necessary? I don't have a bow and I'd no intention of playing with one, just to bash out some simple walking lines and play my usual rubbish. 4. Did a quick search on here for learning material, so far come up with Ed Friedland's DVD, Rufus Reid's DVD, Modern Walking Bass Techniques by Mike Richmond, Beginning Scales by Neil Tarlton, Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass by Todd Philips. Any good? Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance!

I'd prefer my all graphite Status 5 stringer so I could actually get some playing done, I'd spend all my time adjusting a Fender due to the climate. I'd be happy to have any bass, but if it has to be a Fender it would be my Japanese 62 Jazz reissue. Awesome bass.

Bought an upright off Spencer. Quick and easy transaction, good communication, many thanks!

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348133003' post='1809659'] Is it the music coming out of it? It's all about the music right? Isn't it? Or am I on the wrong forum? [/quote] The fat idiot is definitely on to something here, some examples: Is a pink Yamaha cool? It is if you're a Billy Sheehan fan. Is a sunburst 60s Precision cool? If you like Jamerson, Babbit, Dunn and other old skoolers then definitely Is a Rickenbacker cool? If you like Chris Squire or Lemmy (although are you allowed to copy their look or is it patented?) Is a violin bass cool? If you like the Beatles. Is a Status lit up like a Xmas tree cool? If you like Mark King or Chris Wotsisiname Is an all black Precision with a maple neck cool? Is a beat up fretless Jazz bass with no scratchplate cool? Is a blonde Jazz bass with an ugly pickguard mod and a badass cool? Well you get the idea.... I think a lot of people who drool over a certain kind of bass has been initially influenced by their favourite players because of the music, not the instrument.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1348145281' post='1809957'] Am I the only person who zones out then? [/quote]

[quote name='Johnnysonic' timestamp='1348135190' post='1809703'] Look at the neck pocket in second to last picture. mmm... [/quote] Good spot plus the way the logo is lost in the black finish put me off, did they really leave the factory like that?

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1348134563' post='1809695'] ( Retired piano player learning bass here ; ) I guess it is one of those things that get easier the more you do it . One handy trick is to imagine " louder " ( in your head , that is ) , and to make that imagination so compelling that the fingers have to follow ; [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8[/media] [/quote] Wow, have spend half the morning watching all the Hal Galper videos on that channel. There's some really interesting concepts on there, I'm off to scratch my head, regroup and come up with a better plan for approaching the bass. Many thanks for posting!

[quote name='Johnnysonic' timestamp='1348133976' post='1809679'] What do you base this comment on??!! Black is an extremeley rare colour in the Pre CBS period, so much so that you hardly ever see them. I would agree that a Black P or Jazz wouldn't be as desirable as Shoreline Gold or Sonic Blue, they are sought after, and just as rare. I can think of only one Black pre CBS bass for sale in the world right now - at New Kings Road - and I'm sure many collectors wopuld give their eye-teeth for it. Johnny [/quote] Here's one, seems very cheap for an L series with matching headstock if it's really largely original: [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/1963_JAzz.html"]http://www.bassdirec.../1963_JAzz.html[/url]