wesfinn Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) So some of you may of read my post in the general discussions page. I am about to start building 2 projects. the first of which I will be starting this thursday (4/02/10) will be a replica of a 1960 stack knob J style bass. The second will be an early 60's P style bass. I have spend a very large amount of time researching the pre-cbs build and tooling methods, materials and processes that went into creating what are now regarded as some of the finest and most innovative instruments in the world and now feel confident that i can recreate them with pride and above all respect for the man that set the standard! I plan to recreate these processes where possible and also use period correct materials (again, where possible). so here is the spec for the Jazz bass: 2 piece light Swamp Ash body finished in blonde nitrocellulose laquer, correct router hump, pin dowels, pickup placement, lazy susan nail holes etc Rock Maple neck (hard) medium profile Slab Brazillian Rosewood fingerboard 7.25" radius, clay dots sideway installed vintage fretwire vintage reproduction Capacitors CTS pots - Swithcraft jack - cloth wiring - shielding plates etc Full celluloid Tortoise shell 4 ply pickguard Bareknuckle handwound J pickups Gotoh vintage hardware - lightly aged I will make the truss rods myself as the vintage correct size are not available off the shelf this build may take a while to complete as a) I want to do the first one with minimal mistakes and I have to make all the templates/jigs etc as I go along and I have a full time job as well as being a session bassist so don't get much spare time! so until thursday when i shall embark on this build, thanks for reading! also thanks also to Graeme (headofire), Howard (the bass doc) and Jim (99ster) for providing me with dimensions from their beautiful original basses! STAY TUNED! Wes Edited April 1, 2010 by wesfinn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Looking forward to following this! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umcoo Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Sounds good, best of luck to you. May I ask though?...weren't the 60's Fenders made with Alder instead of Ash? I may very well be wrong, but never seen an Ash 60's body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) [quote name='umcoo' post='732261' date='Feb 1 2010, 09:32 PM']Sounds good, best of luck to you. May I ask though?...weren't the 60's Fenders made with Alder instead of Ash? I may very well be wrong, but never seen an Ash 60's body.[/quote] there were a limited amount of swampash bodied jazz basses made in 1960/61. these basses had either a blonde finish or the very very rare 2 tone sunburst. but yes the majority of pre cbs jazz basses were alder. heres an example of a blonde one [url="http://bestguitars.com/Best_Guitars/Basses_for_sale.html"]http://bestguitars.com/Best_Guitars/Basses_for_sale.html[/url] Edited February 1, 2010 by wesfinn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umcoo Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Cool, thanks for the reply. Learn something new everyday etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Man, a 2 tone Jazz bass would be my aesthetic dream! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Good luck with it - I'll be tuning in for progress reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='wesfinn' post='732299' date='Feb 1 2010, 10:06 PM']there were a limited amount of swampash bodied jazz basses made in 1960/61. these basses had either a blonde finish or the very very rare 2 tone sunburst. but yes the majority of pre cbs jazz basses were alder. heres an example of a blonde one [url="http://bestguitars.com/Best_Guitars/Basses_for_sale.html"]http://bestguitars.com/Best_Guitars/Basses_for_sale.html[/url][/quote] A 2T 'burst Jazz, you say? Never heard of that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='732579' date='Feb 2 2010, 09:30 AM']A 2T 'burst Jazz, you say? Never heard of that one![/quote] Well that's what I was thinking! Would still be lush though Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 I have only seen one picture of a 2TS and read a couple of accounts that a very small number left the factory in very early 1960. Still not concrete I guess but I think it wouyld of been more than feasable, especially if ordered as a custom finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='wesfinn' post='732625' date='Feb 2 2010, 10:07 AM']I have only seen one picture of a 2TS and read a couple of accounts that a very small number left the factory in very early 1960. Still not concrete I guess but I think it wouyld of been more than feasable, especially if ordered as a custom finish.[/quote] I have seen a number of old J's and P's where the red has faded leaving just the yellow and black (I own one!).... I've never come across a factory J! I'm ready to be convinced, though... I did see a 2T custom shop J once. In fact, it was on sale here for a while (it was fretless). Looked kinda... strange. IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 It wasw only on the Swamp Ash bodies that the finish existed. theres a very very knowledgeable and extremely amazing builder from Israel called Gil Yaron. He makes some of the most accurate Pre CBS style guitars. He spent a long time in California as a vintage repair man. he also believes that they did exist in very small numbers out of the factory and has actually made one if you want to see what one looks like heres the link. [url="http://gilyaronguitars.com/page10.php?view=thumbnailList&category=10"]http://gilyaronguitars.com/page10.php?view...amp;category=10[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hmm... without pics of an original, I'm not convinced... yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 heres a specialist vintage store in America who have one for sale [url="http://www.premierguitar.com/Gear/Guitars/Bass/2068/Jazz_Bass.aspx"]http://www.premierguitar.com/Gear/Guitars/.../Jazz_Bass.aspx[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Cool, but... how do we know the red hasn't faded over time? Here's my '71 3T Precision: Stick another ten years of daylight in it, and there'll be no red at all...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 I've emailed them asking if the will remove the pickguard and send pictures to see if theres any traces of red there. I'm not 100% convinced myself still so will be interesting to see if they come back. I'd like to think it was possible to have the colour combination! I shall keep you posted WOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 My breath is baited. As the saying goes, never say never with Fender! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Indeed! Maybe this could be worthy of some extreme investigation. Might be able to write a book about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 On my 2003 3-tone sunburst jazz, if you remove the scratchplate, underneath is two-tone sunburst. Apparently to save money on red paint!?. I don't know whether they would have employed that kind of money-saving technique in 1960!? So potentially, whether it's two-tone or not under the scratchplate may or may-not be relevant. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 they did do the same thing then, but there would be traces of the red on bass side under the guard by the neck pocket. it was only the lower horn part they missed out. It is very true what WOT says about the fred fading, and this was particularly true of the 1959 first run of the 3 tones. However by 1960 Fender had realised that the colours were fading and by mid 1960 they had come up with a replacement red. So having realised that the red would of fade pretty quickly they may of just used 2 tone bursts on a few basses until they had the replacement. just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 ok so I've just had confirmation that the 2 tone sunburst Jazzes in question were just faded 3 tones. So I guess you cant believe everything you see/read. It's been interesting chasing this up today though as I hadn't looked into it before. I managed to ask 2 people who have these '2 tone' basses in theyre posession and both have confirmed that there is evidence of red in the neck/control cavities! still could of possibly been some custom orders I guess...but we will probably never know! any way back to this being a build thread......soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='wesfinn' post='732694' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:18 AM']heres a specialist vintage store in America who have one for sale [url="http://www.premierguitar.com/Gear/Guitars/Bass/2068/Jazz_Bass.aspx"]http://www.premierguitar.com/Gear/Guitars/.../Jazz_Bass.aspx[/url][/quote] Here's what this one would have looked like 50 years ago... [attachment=41730:p2_us4vcjxya_so.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 [quote name='99ster' post='733384' date='Feb 2 2010, 07:56 PM']Here's what this one would have looked like 50 years ago... [attachment=41730:p2_us4vcjxya_so.jpg][/quote] Wow, that is in rediculous condition isn't it! Worth a bum-load! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sibob' post='733890' date='Feb 3 2010, 11:27 AM']Wow, that is in rediculous condition isn't it! Worth a bum-load! Si[/quote] Oh yeah - that's virtually 'as new'. If you zoom in you can even see the original receipt together with all the un-touched 'case candy'. Amazing. Worth quite a few bum-loads I would think! And a perfect example of how the burst finishes are very distinctive on these earl Jazz basses - with loads of black in them. I would think it must have been the same guy that shot them in that particular way for the first couple of years... [i]PS - and apparently that's the Fender amp that the original owner bought at the same time in 1960...[/i] Edited February 4, 2010 by 99ster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) So I've just got home to Brighton after a couple of busy and productive days in Essex working on the build! heres an account of the last 2 days... Day one was pretty much spent making the body template...but this is what it looks like. all the holes in the right places etc... I also had a look at the swamp ash I will be using for the body.. unfortunately at the moment Mike and myself are finding it hard to source some decent ash so I had the choice of a couple of bits that Mike had available. It's not the best swamp ash in the world (lots of knots/shakes etc) so I ended up making a 3 piece body with what I could find. Weight is OK, not light, but not heavy (about how I like my personel passes). For the purpous of this build it will be fine as It's probably going to be one I keep. heres the ash in rough cut form and heres the body blank in the clamps after thicknessing/drumsanding/squaring also managed to find a nice bit of hard rock maple, It had the lowest frequency in the tap test, should work nice with the swamp ash. Leo apparently used to test all his timbers with a tuning fork and match them up tonally, but as I havn't had much choice of timber with this build I'm not going to worry too much! heres the blank planed and drum sanded to just above the correct thinckness ready for the rough cutting on the bandsaw then having the template mounted for the flush triming on the pin router. Edited May 5, 2010 by wesfinn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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