Bill Fitzmaurice build advice please!

[Le Chat Noir]

I have a KappaLite 3015LF and four Deltalite II 2510 which I currently have installed in some Ashdown ABM cabs, but I'm thinking of selling my Ashdown rig and might keep the speakers.

I was browsing the net for suitable DIY enclosures for my speakers and found Bill Fitzmaurice's designs - then noticed a lot of folk rave about them on bass forums, including here!

My main question is, what would people recommend for rehousing my speakers? I was thinking a pair of Omni 10s for the four Deltalites. What would be good for the 3015LF?

[Dood]

[quote name='Le Chat Noir' post='622530' date='Oct 10 2009, 05:20 PM']I have a KappaLite 3015LF and four Deltalite II 2510 which I currently have installed in some Ashdown ABM cabs, but I'm thinking of selling my Ashdown rig and might keep the speakers.

I was browsing the net for suitable DIY enclosures for my speakers and found Bill Fitzmaurice's designs - then noticed a lot of folk rave about them on bass forums, including here!

My main question is, what would people recommend for rehousing my speakers? I was thinking a pair of Omni 10s for the four Deltalites. What would be good for the 3015LF?[/quote]


Bill himself posts here frequently, however, I'm thinking that asking the same question on his own forum may get you a faster answer. I *think* the Omni 15 or tall boy version takes the 3015LF - but couldn't be 100% sure, without taking a look at the models on Bill's website.

If you are looking for something a little different for the 3015LF and fancy a self build - then look out for GreenBoy's FearFul 15-6 advertised on TalkBass. Or maybe, have a chat with Alex Claber her who manufacturers his own BareFaced Bass cabinets, that also features the 3015 range of speakers.

[Musky]

Bill's forum is definitely the place to ask about the speakers, but as far as I know the Omnis have now been replaced by the Jacks.

[Le Chat Noir]

[quote name='Musky' post='622595' date='Oct 10 2009, 07:02 PM']Bill's forum is definitely the place to ask about the speakers, but as far as I know the Omnis have now been replaced by the Jacks.[/quote]

Thanks to both of you for your responses - I have also registered for Bill's forum, but haven't had my application accepted yet!

Edited October 10, 2009 by Le Chat Noir

[stevie]

[quote name='Le Chat Noir' post='622530' date='Oct 10 2009, 05:20 PM']I have a KappaLite 3015LF and four Deltalite II 2510 which I currently have installed in some Ashdown ABM cabs, but I'm thinking of selling my Ashdown rig and might keep the speakers.[/quote]
You will find it very difficult to improve on the system you have now: it's close to state-of-the-art IMO. Before making any changes, be sure to audition first. If you're unhappy with your sound, it's unlikely that your speakers are the cause.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='stevie' post='624064' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:25 PM']You will find it very difficult to improve on the system you have now: it's close to state-of-the-art IMO.[/quote]

Do you think so? I would expect him to get much better results if he transplanted the speakers into a cabinet that was designed specifically for them.

S.P.

[Le Chat Noir]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='624066' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:27 PM']Do you think so? I would expect him to get much better results if he transplanted the speakers into a cabinet that was designed specifically for them.[/quote]

This was my thinking too. To be honest I've never been 100% happy with the ABM cabs, hence the driver swap in the first place! I find them a little woolly. I imagine making some enclosures thast were designed for these specific units might yield better results and allow the speakers to realise their full potential.

[alexclaber]

Did you add damping to the cabs when you swapped the speakers? I know many Ashdown cabs are a little short on that front!

Alex

[stevie]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='624066' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:27 PM']Do you think so? I would expect him to get much better results if he transplanted the speakers into a cabinet that was designed specifically for them.[/quote]
That's certainly the case for hi-fi speakers and full-range PA speakers, but it's less so for bass guitar cabs. The enclosure design of a 15" or 4x10" bass guitar cab is something of a standard commodity nowadays: size 85 to 115 litres, tuned between 40 and 45 Hz. There are dozens of 15" speakers that will work to that spec and plenty of bass guitar 10s that are interchangeable. The ABM 15 Compact is 90 litres tuned to 45 Hz (same as the Trace 1153). Funnily enough, the Eminence 3015LF is better suited to the cab than the speaker Ashdown have fitted. I've measured the Ashdown driver, and it really should be in a bigger box.

The Ashdown ABM cabinets are beautifully made in 3/4" birch ply (I've got one). The 3015LF is the driver fitted to the excellent Bareface Big One. The Deltalight 10s are very uncoloured in the midrange and fine in a 4 x 10 combination. I'd expect it to be really, really good.

[stevie]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='624097' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:50 PM']Did you add damping to the cabs when you swapped the speakers? I know many Ashdown cabs are a little short on that front![/quote]

You beat me to the punch on that one.

[stevie]

[quote name='Le Chat Noir' post='624089' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:48 PM']This was my thinking too. To be honest I've never been 100% happy with the ABM cabs, hence the driver swap in the first place! I find them a little woolly. I imagine making some enclosures thast were designed for these specific units might yield better results and allow the speakers to realise their full potential.[/quote]

I wonder if maybe you've been swayed by all the talk of 'wooly Ashdown' on here.

Devon's not a million miles from South Wales. There will be some Fitzmaurice cabs at next month's South Wales Bass Bash to try out. Could be worth the trip.

[Protium]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='624066' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:27 PM']Do you think so? I would expect him to get much better results if he transplanted the speakers into a cabinet that was designed specifically for them.

S.P.[/quote]

The speakers in question match quite nicely with the ABM cabs, maybe need a little tweak on the tuning but otherwise cool.

[gilmour]

The 10's you've got will work in the Omni10 (or Jack 10 which is the newer version) the 15 will work in an Omni 15 but you'll also need a mid range driver and compression driver.

I've built both, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971"]you can see my Omni 15 Build diary here[/url]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=41067"]and a comparison between the O10 & O15TB here.[/url]

As far as the sound is concerned there is no comparison between the BFM stuff and the Ashdown kit. The Ashdown falls woefully short, it is heavier, quieter and has much less clarity to the sound.

Edited October 12, 2009 by gilmour

[Le Chat Noir]

To be honest the 1x15 is sounding pretty good, but I'm finding the 4x10 is 'farting out' a bit on some low notes. I think that's what sounds woolly to me. The speakers probably aren't even broken in properly yet so maybe that'll help. What would you suggest for dampening the inside of the enclosures? Overall these drivers are definitely an improvement on the Bluelines that were in there before, but my only thought was that maybe they aren't the cabs for me at all. However, I'll keep tinkering and see what I can coax out of them!

[stevie]

This is a difficult one. What you are describing is the 10-inch drivers exceeding their excursion limits. You must be in a very loud band! There are a limited number of options to remedy this, but first of all let the driver run in. Check also that the drivers are properly sealed and that there are no leaks. Check for a faulty driver - in other words, does the 'farting out' come from all drivers at the same time? Also, make sure that it's not your amp that's running out of steam. Your 15-inch box will handle more power than the 4x10, but if the amp is giving out, you should hear similar symptoms through the 15 as well.

Sorry if this is all a bit obvious: I'm just trying to cover all bases.

If all of this fails, these are your options. Perhaps somebody else will add to this.

1. Use your tone controls to reduce the amount of 40 - 60Hz going into the speakers. This is definitely your cheapest option if you can live with it.
2. Replace the 10-inch drivers with better ones. This is your most expensive route. If you can afford it, you might consider it.
3. Buy a decent quality power amp that works in bridged mode into 8 ohms - 250 to 600 watts - and power it from the preamp-out on your bass amp. Balance the power going into each cab using the balance control on the power amp. This will allow you to increase the power to the 15 and reduce it to the 4x10. There were some suitable power amps on here not long ago for well under £100.

Damping the inside of the cabs is certainly worth the effort. It will clean up your sound, although it won't stop the distortion you are experiencing. There was a thread on this here just recently. I use BAF wadding, 2-inches thick (don't bother with the 1-inch stuff) stapled to the cab with a staple gun. The trick is to stop the wadding moving without compressing it too much. You could probably also stick it to the cab using something like Copydex. I''m sure that would work OK, but I've never done it.

Good luck.

[Le Chat Noir]

[quote name='stevie' post='624743' date='Oct 13 2009, 09:59 AM']This is a difficult one. What you are describing is the 10-inch drivers exceeding their excursion limits. You must be in a very loud band! There are a limited number of options to remedy this, but first of all let the driver run in. Check also that the drivers are properly sealed and that there are no leaks. Check for a faulty driver - in other words, does the 'farting out' come from all drivers at the same time? Also, make sure that it's not your amp that's running out of steam. Your 15-inch box will handle more power than the 4x10, but if the amp is giving out, you should hear similar symptoms through the 15 as well.

Sorry if this is all a bit obvious: I'm just trying to cover all bases.

If all of this fails, these are your options. Perhaps somebody else will add to this.

1. Use your tone controls to reduce the amount of 40 - 60Hz going into the speakers. This is definitely your cheapest option if you can live with it.
2. Replace the 10-inch drivers with better ones. This is your most expensive route. If you can afford it, you might consider it.
3. Buy a decent quality power amp that works in bridged mode into 8 ohms - 250 to 600 watts - and power it from the preamp-out on your bass amp. Balance the power going into each cab using the balance control on the power amp. This will allow you to increase the power to the 15 and reduce it to the 4x10. There were some suitable power amps on here not long ago for well under £100.

Damping the inside of the cabs is certainly worth the effort. It will clean up your sound, although it won't stop the distortion you are experiencing. There was a thread on this here just recently. I use BAF wadding, 2-inches thick (don't bother with the 1-inch stuff) stapled to the cab with a staple gun. The trick is to stop the wadding moving without compressing it too much. You could probably also stick it to the cab using something like Copydex. I''m sure that would work OK, but I've never done it.

Good luck.[/quote]

Thanks for all your advice stevie - I've only just started playing bass in a band again after 6 years of singing and playing guitar (was exclusively a bassist prior to that) and the project I'm in is fairly loud - the guitarist was playing through two 100w tube half stacks cranked a bit, which might explain why my 500w head couldn't keep up too well! I guess asking him to turn down might be my firstp ort of call!! I was thinking that maybe I was pushing the drivers too hard.

[stevie]

[quote name='Le Chat Noir' post='624754' date='Oct 13 2009, 10:12 AM']I guess asking him to turn down might be my firstp ort of call!! [/quote]

That would work, yes - and could save you all from suffering hearing loss in later life.