Linus27 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I have a Genz Benz Shuttle 6 and the NEO 212. Very nice rig and sounds fantastic with my Darryl Jones and ESP Jazz bass. However, my Stingray just sounds a bit odd. The only way I can describe it is very Kenneth Williams sounding, just very nasally. I guess thats the mids. I can get an amazing slap sound but I don't play slap. I can get a great deep dub bass sound but I don't play dub. I can get an average finger style although not 100% happy. I can't however get a nice smooth middle of the road full fat balanced tone. A kind of smooth jazz tone. Its either bassy and muffled, twangy and trebly or as I describe, very Kenneth Williams sounding. I just don't want to give up on the Stingray as in my eyes, they are the best looking bass in the world. However, no point keeping it if I never play it due to never getting the right sound from it. I am beginning to wonder if the Stingray is just never ever going to be right for me. A bit annoying really when it always was my dream bass. Anyone got any Stingray/Shuttle 6 settings they can share? Apologies if this is in the wrong place. Was not sure if it should go in the bass section, amp section or just general bass so I chose the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I've found a similar thing but I just boosted the bass and it was alright. I never expected it to sound like a valve amp. Maybe you need a Berg cab instead or maybe something deeper sounding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='572015' date='Aug 17 2009, 08:09 PM']I've found a similar thing but I just boosted the bass and it was alright. I never expected it to sound like a valve amp. Maybe you need a Berg cab instead or maybe something deeper sounding?[/quote]Steve's right, it ain't no valve amp. The Shuttle 6 I tried just sounded so clanky and toppy, it didn't put out any bass that could be felt, IMO. If you care about your tone, then I think for the same money a Mark Bass amp would be better, I like neither but then I prefer the sound of vinyl LPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synaesthesia Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='571960' date='Aug 17 2009, 07:25 PM'].... very Kenneth Williams sounding.[/quote] I have to say that made my day... I suppose you can play 'infamy, infamy they're all in fer me' on the stingray now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Ive not used my Stingrays for while....until I plugged one into my Mark Mass LM3 and Berg HS410....then and only then did I realise the amazing sound the amp/cab and bass produce. Certain amp/cabs/basses just dont mix, and i've no idea why. I find Stingrays need that massive low end thump to match their cutting mids....which the Mark Bass does in spades. Sorry I cant help with the settings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The Shuttle 6.0 scopes out almost completely flat so the issue is more likely to be the cab having a high mid peak in the same region as the StingRay's characteristic midrange (a high growl which is lower than a soloed Jazz bass bridge pickup but a lot higher than the grrr from a Precision or the mellower grunt from a soloed Jazz neck pickup). StingRays do have a ton of bottom but it's voiced lower than on a Jazz and lower still than a Precision, so it takes quite a sonically hefty rig to get those lows across. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Try setting the semi-parametric mid to -6dB and sweeping around the 600-1000Hz area. Alternatively, try using the mid-cut preshape and then adding about 3-6dB of boost on the semi-parametric and sweeping around the 300-600Hz area. Also try the LF boost to get a kick in the lows. Or you could work on the bass itself: My '87 Streamer is very growly and aggressive and the best route to a balanced fat sound is to use nickel rounds and leave them on there for an age. Plucking softer and nearer the neck will make a big difference too. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thanks for the help everyone. The Shuttle and Cab is fine for bottom end. In fact the bottom end is very deep as with my Darryl Jones, I have to boost the High (-15/+15) dial. My other Jazzes sound great but the Stingray just does not sound good at all. Thanks Alex for the suggestions. I will give them a try tomorrow after work and report back. I really hope it works as I love my ray. I just want to love the sound to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I used my Stingray with the Shuttle 6 the first day I got it, threw it in at the deep end with a gig. I was running it with the EQ totally flat, none of the shape switches in, gain about 2 or 3 o'clock and pre-amp vol at 12 o'clock, and my Stingray jumped out of the speakers and nearly bit my head clean off, it sounded great. Might be to do with the cab though, my 610 is [i]real[/i] heavy on the bottom, with less emphasis on the mids, so that will have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Played the Stingray at the weekend at rehersal through my Shuttle 6 and NEO212 cab and at first it was really toppy and clanky. After a bit of fiddling, I managed to get a pretty decent sound. What I did was leave the EQ flat put had the bass boost button on. On the Stingray, again all was flat apart from the Mid dial was turned all the way off. This mellowed and smoothed the sound a lot and took the top end clank away. It was not perfect but sounded pretty good. Edited August 25, 2009 by Linus27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 You could try my Epi 502 some time if you want something different to see how it works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='molan' post='580003' date='Aug 25 2009, 11:12 AM']You could try my Epi 502 some time if you want something different to see how it works?[/quote] Hi Barrie, thanks for the offer. I think that would be a fate worse than death, unless it comes with a nice 75 Jazz :) I tried OBHM's Epi 310 and it sounded amazing. Probably better than my GB NEO 212. A much tighter sound so I am sure your Epi 502 will sound even better than my Shuttle 6. However, I think for now, I am better sticking with the GB rig for finacial reasons. Plus, to be honest, the GB rig does sound very good with the Lakland DJ, its just the Stingray that I am struggling with. Having chatted with Old Horse Murphy on Thursday, we are both getting to the opinion that the Stingray sound is just not for us, depite being a superb instrument. I am considering putting a Bartolini pickup in it as the Barts in my ESP Jazz sound amazing. Again, Nick and I think my ESP Jazz is my best sounding bass, better than my Lakland DJ and Stingray. Thanks again for the offer though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The Bartolini MM pickup should go a long way towards mellowing out the tone of your StingRay. That's quite a spectacular amount of midrange cut but it just goes to show how mid prominent the StingRay is compared to a Jazz with both pickups up full. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='580318' date='Aug 25 2009, 03:14 PM']The Bartolini MM pickup should go a long way towards mellowing out the tone of your StingRay. That's quite a spectacular amount of midrange cut but it just goes to show how mid prominent the StingRay is compared to a Jazz with both pickups up full. Alex[/quote] Alex, thats what I thought which kind of made me think that the tone of the Stingray is just not right for me. I always seem to be trying to mellow it out and make it more like a Jazz. Thats good to know the Bart pickup might just help me out. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='580364' date='Aug 25 2009, 04:01 PM']Alex, thats what I thought which kind of made me think that the tone of the Stingray is just not right for me. I always seem to be trying to mellow it out and make it more like a Jazz. Thats good to know the Bart pickup might just help me out. Thanks[/quote] Hey I think if you arent happy with the Stingray sound, Id move it on. Ive seen a few comments on their forums stating basically that owners have tried new pickups, and it hasnt retained that sonic hammer the Stingray is capable of, or the value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='580040' date='Aug 25 2009, 11:54 AM']unless it comes with a nice 75 Jazz :)[/quote] I've just put in an offer for an original '78 - if it comes off I'll stick you first in line for the '75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='molan' post='580631' date='Aug 25 2009, 07:55 PM']I've just put in an offer for an original '78 - if it comes off I'll stick you first in line for the '75 [/quote] woohoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='580669' date='Aug 25 2009, 08:32 PM']woohoo [/quote] The 75 Reissue I played was 'better' than a Sadowsky UV Metro....and lighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='580364' date='Aug 25 2009, 04:01 PM']Alex, thats what I thought which kind of made me think that the tone of the Stingray is just not right for me. I always seem to be trying to mellow it out and make it more like a Jazz. Thats good to know the Bart pickup might just help me out. Thanks[/quote] The StingRay sound is quite interesting because although with the EQ flat it's very aggressive in the midrange and highs, as the original active bass it was designed to take some hefty EQing - there are some very smooth StingRay sounds on record, like Louis Johnson on loads of disco classics, which relied on boosting the lows and highs to effectively get a mid-scooped sound. What you can't change about a StingRay is the shape of sound - the naturally compressed tone due to the single bridgewards pickup, with less thump in the mid-bass and thus proportionally more deep bass if you're going for a bassy tone. You can hear this quite clearly if you compare Bernard Edwards and Louis Johnson on disco records to most other disco bassists - the StingRay does not really do thump (which makes it a nice slap bass because it stops slapping from getting too thumpy) - or if you compare RATM's first album to the following three - the bass is deep but it doesn't thud or punch low down, the punch happens in the midrange. Changing the pickup is really only like changing the EQ, so if you can get the sound you want with the EQ then you're sorted. If not then maybe single pickup StingRays aren't for you. Try using that mid-sweep on the Shuttle - leave the EQ flat on the StingRay, cut by about 10dB on the Shuttle mid, freq @ 500Hz (same as the onboard preamp) and then sweep up and down to see if you like the sound more. Note that the Q on the Shuttle's EQ is much tighter so it'll affect a smaller range of frequencies, whilst the onboard EQ is very wide with shallow slopes. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='581103' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:41 AM']The StingRay sound is quite interesting because although with the EQ flat it's very aggressive in the midrange and highs, as the original active bass it was designed to take some hefty EQing - there are some very smooth StingRay sounds on record, like Louis Johnson on loads of disco classics, which relied on boosting the lows and highs to effectively get a mid-scooped sound. What you can't change about a StingRay is the shape of sound - the naturally compressed tone due to the single bridgewards pickup, with less thump in the mid-bass and thus proportionally more deep bass if you're going for a bassy tone. You can hear this quite clearly if you compare Bernard Edwards and Louis Johnson on disco records to most other disco bassists - the StingRay does not really do thump (which makes it a nice slap bass because it stops slapping from getting too thumpy) - or if you compare RATM's first album to the following three - the bass is deep but it doesn't thud or punch low down, the punch happens in the midrange. Changing the pickup is really only like changing the EQ, so if you can get the sound you want with the EQ then you're sorted. If not then maybe single pickup StingRays aren't for you. Try using that mid-sweep on the Shuttle - leave the EQ flat on the StingRay, cut by about 10dB on the Shuttle mid, freq @ 500Hz (same as the onboard preamp) and then sweep up and down to see if you like the sound more. Note that the Q on the Shuttle's EQ is much tighter so it'll affect a smaller range of frequencies, whilst the onboard EQ is very wide with shallow slopes. Alex[/quote] Thanks Alex, will give all that a go at band practise tomorrow. It makes sense what you say, I just hope it creates a tone that I like. I really hope as I love the feel and look of the Stingray and would be a shame to give up on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Well I managed to get a pretty good sound out of the GB rig and Stingray. Its not perfect but good enough for me to do the gig. The settings I used in the end were, Tube Pre- Amp Set to around 10 O Clock Volume Pre Amp at 12 O Clock Low Set at 3 O Clock Mid Set at 10 O Clock Mid Freq at 12 O Clock High Set at 12 O Clock LF Boost On Mid Boost On HF Attack Off The Stingray settings set flat. It was quite a nice full punchy sound and the E and A string really kicked without the clank. The D and G string were not bad but a little thin but still useable. I tried to really boost the bottom end and cut the mid and take a lot of the clank out. It kind of worked. Overall, not bad and I managed to play the gig and sound pretty good. I also have a greater understanding on how the Stingray works and how to get more sounds out of my cab which I am really grateful for. It was also really great to play a gig with the Stingray. Something that Old Horse Murphy suggested was try stringing the Stingray with flats. This might take some of the clank out and make the bass sound fatter and boost the bottom end. Thanks again for all your help guys especially Alex for the technical advice. Edited August 30, 2009 by Linus27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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