Does Size Matter? Is 8” Big Enough?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

As one who does both commercial and DIY designs I have to disagree. One major advantage to DIY is being able to build designs that are labor intensive without concern for the cost of the labor. There's a reason why high end outfits like Danley Sound Labs get top dollar/quid for their products, and it's not just the cost of the components, it's also the cost of the labor to build them. A DIY build of a sophisticated design can easily match the performance of a high end speaker costing $5k at a fifth that price or less. Where commercial has the advantage of economy of scale is in the low to midrange price range, but even there DIY can still be the better route. You can buy a simple ported or vented box or you can build one for the same price but loaded with premium drivers, whereas buying a commercial one with premium drivers would raise the cost considerably. Now that's not to say that all DIY designs are gems by any means, I see cringe worthy junk all the time. But to be fair I see plenty of cringe worthy commercial junk too. Maybe not in the $5k range but certainly in the $500 range. 

 

And lest I forget...well, I did actually...DIY doesn't have expenses for marketing and distribution, office staff, accountants, lawyers, offices and factories, the guys on the loading dock...it's a long list that all contribute to the price you pay. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Bill Fitzmaurice

[agedhorse]

59 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

As one who does both commercial and DIY designs I have to disagree. One major advantage to DIY is being able to build designs that are labor intensive without concern for the cost of the labor. There's a reason why high end outfits like Danley Sound Labs get top dollar/quid for their products, and it's not just the cost of the components, it's also the cost of the labor to build them. A DIY build of a sophisticated design can easily match the performance of a high end speaker costing $5k at a fifth that price or less. Where commercial has the advantage of economy of scale is in the low to midrange price range, but even there DIY can still be the better route. You can buy a simple ported or vented box or you can build one for the same price but loaded with premium drivers, whereas buying a commercial one with premium drivers would raise the cost considerably. Now that's not to say that all DIY designs are gems by any means, I see cringe worthy junk all the time. But to be fair I see plenty of cringe worthy commercial junk too. Maybe not in the $5k range but certainly in the $500 range. 

Perhaps if copying a proven design, but even then the economies of scale are against you. Now if there is no value assigned to labor, and you already have the tools, the gap is closer, but it's the "proven design" part of the equation that makes a difference IME. 

 

There's also the cost of developing the design and building prototypes that's often (conveniently ignored), but by ignoring even the minimal cost of design, labor, quality hardware, testing and wasted materials, then yes it can appear to be less expensive. 

 

There are also the DYI designs that, due to inexperience or lack of understanding, become "amp killers" due to not understanding reactive load limits in amps when it comes to crossover design, that bring hidden costs to the table. Yes, I run into this often enough, especially from the OCD crowd that thinks that every crossover needs multiple Zobel networks without any consideration for what ends up being lumped resonant tank circuits. 

 

This is just my experience, based on what I have seen over the (many) years.

[Rob MacKillop]

To quote Robert Burns: "Eight inch will please a lady". 

[Phil Starr]

13 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

All true, but that argument applies equally to bass cabs.

I'm not sure it does. First of all many of the arguably most successful and musical cabs are non-flat response designs. There is room for highly coloured designs to become part of a bassists sound, for people to bring experience and creative flair to musical instrument design. The frequency range of a bass is limited and can be covered by single speakers and a successful single speaker design is relatively easy to design and build. Mid priced commercial bass designs are often compromised by cost cutting so putting a higher spec driver in a cab with a bit more bracing can lead to a cheaper cab or one which genuinely might work 'better'. Though you won't get an awful lot of agreement about what better sounds like. Also fewer bass cabs are sold than PA speakers so building at scale is less likely and teh market will be less competitive.

 

It's also more common to use passive cabs for bass and it is amps that are more challenging and expensive to build than speaker cabs. Few of us now would go out and buy a passive PA system and building an active cab is difficult and expensive as a one off.

 

For PA speakers the issue is that you can't cover the full audio spectrum with single driver cabs so you need multiple drivers and a decent crossover. It's simple enough to use open source free software to design a basic 2-way crossover using theory alone but getting the design of the crossover right is an iterative process of having a target response for both divers building the cossover and accurately measuring the actual response then making corrections. You will also have to consider the phase response as well as the frequency response. The response through the crossover frequencies is way less important in reproducing bass than reproducing the human voice for example and it is going to be a rare amateur that can match the professionals. You can build great cabs and put the absolute best drivers in them but without the ability to design a great crossover your design probably won't match the best commercial designs. The paradigm for PA cabs shifted with the introduction of cheap, lighweight class D amps of almost unlimited power and is shifting again with the advent of DSP.  

 

It is still possible to build a bass cab for less money thatn a commercial cab or to spend that money on something better than you could afford to buy. It's still possible to build a valve amp yourself but you won't make a huge saving  if any. It's just not economic to build your own active PA amp for anything other than the joy of it.

[Chienmortbb]

7 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

It's just not economic to build your own active PA amp for anything other than the joy of it.

This is true of all electronic and musical instruments too. It is the joy of making, t(at is satisfying not financial savings.

[Stub Mandrel]

Some of those points occurred to me.

 

I thought of how LFSYS came to be... they meet the requirements of a passive PA.

 

Most people who make cabs do it out of curiosity and creativity, not to save money or even to achieve exceptional results. It's an extension to their hobby.

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Lol @Chienmortbb  just cross posted exactly my point, more eloquently.