Using a Valve Amp live

[King Tut]

This friday I'm going to use a valve amp for the first time in our Pink Floyd tribute band.

It's a Laney Supergroup 100 I bought from Moonbassalpha. The thing sounds bloody phenomenal!

It has no DI out so I was thinking of micing the cab - a nemesis 1 x 15. A good idea ot not?

if I mic it, what would be the best mic to use - I have a choice of:

A JTS kick drum mic,
SM57
SM58
T Bone 57 copy
Behringer 8500 (I think?!) 58 copy

Where would be the best place to put the mic?

Would I be better sticking a Behringer BDI21 after my effects and DI'ing from that. trouble is i would lose the sound of my amp through the PA, and I don't want to taint the sound of my amp by using the valve emulation on the BDI21.

Any other hints, tips or tricks of using valves live would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Col

[umph]

The sound guy will most likely have his own DI box unfortunatly.

[tayste_2000]

I'd mic it, soundguy can want what he wants but end of the day it's your sound.

I'd personally use the SM57 and a Kick Drum Mic, I've had amazing results with a Stagg Kick Drum mic I was very very shocked

If he can mic 8 guitar speakers a night he can mic 1 bass one

Just make it easier for him, turn up with your own mic and stand and just unplug his xlr from the DI and plug it into your mic/s

[Geddys nose]

Mic it all the way for me it is your sound after all,The SM 57 is a good choice -never tried a Bass drum mic yet will have to have a tinker.

[skankdelvar]

As well as mic-ing, you maybe need a DI box with an XLR out that taps the amp's output after the power stage but before it gets to the speaker - like this Hughes and Kettner red box - fairly cheap at £60-odd quid

(Link to manual - PDF - first 8 pages in german, English starts p9)

[url="http://87.106.71.220/files/huke/proclass/redboxclassic/manual/RedBox_BDA_1_0.pdf"]http://87.106.71.220/files/huke/proclass/r...Box_BDA_1_0.pdf[/url]

[attackbass]

If you want an amptone - go with a sansamp or similar... it wont be your amp sound. but then people watching won't know that, or even be able to notice the difference.

it all depends on the size of room you are playing. in a small room you'll be getting quite a lot of the bass sound from onstage coming through.... in a big room, when the whole band is playing your bass will most likely sound just like bass...

I've struggled with the concept of not having my amp sound out front, but have found - especially when you dont have your own sound guy its often safer to just give him a clean di or a sansamp - rather than worry about his competence at mic-ing a speaker and mixing the di and amp sound etc.

Luckily 90% of the time I have my own soundguy - and it's pretty much agreed that between us the sansamp is most reliable and workable in live situations.

[joegarcia]

Good quality passive DI just before the amp (just for low end) and the SM57 (for mids and highs). I'm a live engineer and this is what I do regularly.

attackbass has a good point though. If you are working with unfamiliar or even incompetent engineers (there are plenty of them working the toilet circuit) then something like a Sansamp or Tone Hammer will be a good investment. If you play decent venues or have your own engineer who knows your sound, or both then go for the mic and DI route.

[King Tut]

Thanks for all this guys - what about mic placement?

[joegarcia]

Try and experiment before with a mic and some headphones or something to find out what suits your cab best and what gets the desired sound. Generally I will stick it on the edge of the centre dust cap or sometimes on the very edge of the cone.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='510624' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:39 PM']Good quality passive DI just before the amp (just for low end) and the SM57 (for mids and highs). I'm a live engineer and this is what I do regularly.

attackbass has a good point though. If you are working with unfamiliar or even incompetent engineers (there are plenty of them working the toilet circuit) then something like a Sansamp or Tone Hammer will be a good investment. If you play decent venues or have your own engineer who knows your sound, or both then go for the mic and DI route.[/quote]
+1. Mics are a necessity to capture the tone of the amp/speaker, but that's all above 100Hz. Below that a DI gets the signal without the stage mud. Better FOH engineers will high pass the mic channel as high as even 300 Hz, using the DI below that. The best will high pass the DI at 60-80 Hz, so that the sound out of the PA is reasonably close to that on stage. The worst will run the DI flat and boost the bejesus out of the low EQ and totally corrupt your sound. You don't need to play a toilet to hear that, even in pro-touring I'd rate only 25% of FOH engineers really good at mixing the bass, and nearly all of them are either bass players themselves or also work as studio engineers. Or both.

[umph]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='511242' date='Jun 11 2009, 02:38 PM']+1. Mics are a necessity to capture the tone of the amp/speaker, but that's all above 100Hz. Below that a DI gets the signal without the stage mud. Better FOH engineers will high pass the mic channel as high as even 300 Hz, using the DI below that. The best will high pass the DI at 60-80 Hz, so that the sound out of the PA is reasonably close to that on stage. The worst will run the DI flat and boost the bejesus out of the low EQ and totally corrupt your sound. You don't need to play a toilet to hear that, even in pro-touring I'd rate only 25% of FOH engineers really good at mixing the bass, and nearly all of them are either bass players themselves or also work as studio engineers. Or both.[/quote]
+1

i'm sick of people just mixing out the bass on everything, whats the point in that? did anyone listen to the radio one weekend thing where the bass was mixed out on EVERY band