Improving soloing ideas..

[Faithless]

So, I've attended a few jam-nights over the time, and there I've faced my horrible lack of ideas when soloing. All I can do at the moment is 'to go for a walk' with some pentatonic stuff. Oh, I'm not saying that pentatonics are bad, no, I'm simply short of knowledge/ideas, how to play solo stuff over chords.


So, a day ago I've bought Akai Headrush looper (I've been thinking about it for a while..), so that I could loop some chords, and play 'over' them, hopefully, it could start [i]improving [/i]me..

The problem is, when I've started to play on looped chords, [b]I [/b]actually( I know, sounds stupid..) [b]do not know[/b], where to start...

I mean, I'm soloing in the same old manner I used to do..
So, I'm asking you - where to start?

Take simple solos/leading melodies (other instruments' maybe, not only bass..), find out their basic harmony, loop it, and try re-playing/'developing' those melodies?


This is the only way, I've 'invented', so, suggestions are welcome, chaps..


Cheers,
Faith

[LukeFRC]

im not sure if this would work for everyone.

take your looped chord progression
forget which chords are playing,
forget what notes are where on the fret board,
half remember your scale shapes,
and make something up by ear and what sounds good, rather than what your brain and intelect tells you should sound good...

[jakenewmanbass]

He He... there are a few people here that would expect me to chime in here.

First of all you can't get ideas out without first putting them in. You need to absorb melodies and patterns and licks that you can create (hopefully) cogent solo ideas from, once you have been through that process which can be a slow one, and never ending, then you are in a position to attempt to express those ideas on your bass, I've said this before.... you must be able to sing an idea and play it instantaneously. It takes dedication and massive exploration on your instrument but to my mind, to be able to excecute well formulated ideas is one of the best achievements playing has to offer.
Obviously in a thread on a forum it's difficult to portray the depth and integrity required behind my words, but I'm sure others will offer some thoughts of their own and the whole lot will add up to something useful to you.
Jake

Edited June 6, 2009 by jakesbass

[ashevans09]

Hmm something that my bass teacher taught me and that works a charm is to sing what you want to solo. It will naturally be musical and different to the usual pentatonic stuff and eventually your hands will learn to play what you're singing, if that makes sense.

[Beerbelly]

I'm not a genius in improvising as well, but I do think I can give some advice.

At first, pentatonics [i]are[/i] a good start. You can play a lot of really great stuff with only pentatonics.

The best tip I can think off: try to learn several different styles. Take a few weeks to focus on one genre, like blues, for example, and learn all about it. Do some research and look for interesting bassplayers (wikipedia, deezer and youtube are great resources) and don't forget the basic stuff. After a while, you'll start implementing stuff you've learned into your playing [i]and[/i] your improvising.

Learning different scales is great stuff too. The dorian mode (minor scale with a major sixth), for example, is a great alternative scale for improvising when playing in minor.

There is one thing, or at least so I think, that you shouldn't forget: don't show off (too much) with technical skills. 'Cause sometimes less is more.

[OldGit]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='507117' date='Jun 6 2009, 05:56 PM']He He... there are a few people here that would expect me to chime in here.

First of all you can't get ideas out without first putting them in. You need to absorb melodies and patterns and licks that you can create (hopefully) cogent solo ideas from, once you have been through that process which can be a slow one, and never ending, then you are in a position to attempt to express those ideas on your bass, I've said this before.... you must be able to sing an idea and play it instantaneously. It takes dedication and massive exploration on your instrument but to my mind, to be able to excecute well formulated ideas is one of the best achievements playing has to offer.
Obviously in a thread on a forum it's difficult to portray the depth and integrity required behind my words, but I'm sure others will offer some thoughts of their own and the whole lot will add up to something useful to you.
Jake[/quote]

+1

I recommend a couple of things

Play your chord sequence and sing your ideas - as Jake says. This frees you fom any thoughts of what notes are "right" according to theory, scales and modes and lets your well practiced ability to sing tunes take over. You've been singing your whole life and it doen't have the constraints (tram lines) you will find in your fingers when playing bass.

Then [b]record what you sing, with the backing[/b]. When I started I used two cassette players. I suspect a digital recorder will work here.
Then learn to pay the tunes you've come up with on your bass. This will require some work to find positions to play it comfortably.
This is not quite the same as being able to sing and play your solo simutaneously but that can come from doing it this way.

The other key thing is to [b]learn the melodies[/b] from the vocals and other instruments on the records you are learning from. They will be "right" for the chords sequence and give a great starting place for a solo.

Long term I found learning a melody instrument (sax in my case) meant that my bass playing developed a lot more melodic capability.

Edited June 6, 2009 by OldGit

[sturm]

some interesting stuff, will be giving it a go myself

[OldGit]

Oh and another thing ...

Solos need to have a structure, texture and stuff.
A start, middle and end is good. You could start slow or quiet and build up to a climatic end
or start loud and fast and then slow it down in the middle and take it back up for the end.

The OP mentioned jam sessions where you get bass solos so this must be jazz
Always ask them beforehand how many "choruses" the solo will be 'cos you really don't want to have you well crafted 12 bar solo followed by an embarrassing second 12 bars where, after 4 bars of no solo, you realise you should be the soloist... but you've already used up all your good ideas ..

Likewise you don't want the next soloist in the queue to come crashing to start theirs if you're only half way through yours 'cos you planned for two "choruses" and you only had one...

Edited June 6, 2009 by OldGit

[Balcro]

[quote name='Faithless' post='507107' date='Jun 6 2009, 05:47 PM']So, I've attended a few jam-nights over the time, and there I've faced my horrible lack of ideas when soloing. All I can do at the moment is 'to go for a walk' with some pentatonic stuff. Oh, I'm not saying that pentatonics are bad, no, I'm simply short of knowledge/ideas, how to play solo stuff over chords.

So, a day ago I've bought Akai Headrush looper (I've been thinking about it for a while..), so that I could loop some chords, and play 'over' them, hopefully, it could start [i]improving [/i]me..
The problem is, when I've started to play on looped chords, [b]I [/b]actually( I know, sounds stupid..) [b]do not know[/b], where to start...
I mean, I'm soloing in the same old manner I used to do..
So, I'm asking you - where to start?
Take simple solos/leading melodies (other instruments' maybe, not only bass..), find out their basic harmony, loop it, and try re-playing/'developing' those melodies?

This is the only way, I've 'invented', so, suggestions are welcome, chaps..
Cheers,Faith ;)[/quote]

Courtesy of "Old Git" -
"The other key thing is to learn the melodies from the vocals and other instruments on the records you are learning from. They will be "right" for the chords sequence and give a great starting place for a solo."
-- learn them one way, then play them backwards.
-- you can also borrow breaks from famous songs and fit those into the piece you're playing.

Balcro.

[Doddy]

I would suggest that you first need to become comfortable with playing arpeggios. For example,loop the changes to a tune like
'Autumn Leaves',and then over the top play the arpeggios( I,III,V,VII ) in quarter notes.If you need to work out the notes to play,
stop the loop and practice out of time. When you feel happy with this,do the same but invert the arpeggios (III,V,VII,I -V,VII,I,III-
VII,I,III,V). By doing this you will begin to sound more melodic as you are not highlighting the root note on every chord.
As other posters have said,being able to play what sing is great practice and vital for coming up with melodic ideas,but it will become
a whole lot easier to do this if you become familiar with the notes that are 'inside' the chords.
Also,don't be afraid of practising soloing in a more analytical way. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to deconstruct a chord chart,or learn a melody,
when you are are in the practise room,and you will retain the more information which you will be able to use on a gig or jam session.

This is only a starting point for improving soloing,but I find that it is a good place to start.

[6h5g]

yeah i'd say that singing over a chord sequence would be helpful, i would also say the pentatonic scale is good to use and sticking to that for a while seemed to work for me, and then i started to use other scales to improvise with. Get as familiar as you can with the scale and the shape that you're playing on the fingerboard, and (i dont know if this will help) just play any note you want from the scale in a half random rythm. When you go from one note to the other decide whether you want to go up or down in the scale and play a rythm that you imagine in your head. As I said this might not work for everyone, but seemed to work for me..