Need some free bass lessons!

[51m0n]

[quote name='tombboy' post='485846' date='May 12 2009, 12:50 PM']Reading all of this about LH damping and RH doobrie-ing has made me realise how crap I am and that I need to practice more!! Thanks for that Ann-Marie... you patient, fastidious, determined bugger, you! [/quote]

No mate, I'm just here to torture you all with promises of cleaner playing if and only if you subscribe to my sick twisted devious torturous practice techniques.

Sorry!!!!

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485864' date='May 12 2009, 01:03 PM']I think you are right!!!!

I just watched a video of my playing and there is no way my fingers are all half a cm away from the strings. I do find it quite difficult to keep the other fingers close to the fretboard. So, quite clearly, because I am using that floating thumb technique, I have got away with not cultivating proper left hand technique and this is what is hindering me when I try and do anchor on the pickup playing.

Actually, this explains a lot - [b]I am seriously amazed that you could work this out from a forum![/b]

I am so, so, SOOO not looking forward to the practice session that awaits me tonight!![/quote]

I spent 4 years of my life working on technique first and everything else waaaaay after. I could physically play almost anything i had ever heard at one point (before weird Garrison techniques and double thumping came along). Certainly cant make the same claim now, and I didnt understand everything I could play by any means, but my technique was super solid.

I taught people basic to advanced technique and basic to midle-ing theory for 15 years on and off.

LH cr@pness is easy to spot and hard to fix (fingers wiggle about miles off the fretboard is a dead giveaway)

RH cr@pness is harder to spot (often) and easier to fix (its physically easier to do it right IMO for most people, its quite tricky to work out exactly where its going wrong)

One other point, most people play too hard with their RH. You dont have to play pianissimo all the time, but if you play hard to begin with you cant dig in as far when you need to, it wont have the same huge effect when you do, and you will tend to fret to hard, be more tense and play less well as a result.

[AM1]

Hi again

I just watched that video again and there is a section in the middle where you can clearly see that on my left hand, the non-fretting fingers are moving far too far from the fretboard. You have totally nailed the problem. This explains so much!

[quote name='51m0n' post='485883' date='May 12 2009, 01:20 PM']Its will be tortuorous I'm afraid.

I used to practice standing in a doorway with my left hand a cm away from the wall where the door would be if it closed. That way I couldnt keep opening my left hand all the time.[/quote]

Great tip - for sure this will be torturous because I have to unlearn some really instinctive habits. This has been annoying me for some time now, just so glad I finally know how to fix it.

[quote name='51m0n' post='485883' date='May 12 2009, 01:20 PM']Eventually you realise how much energy you are wasting by opening you hand except for the fretting finger.

Then you realise how this is what has slowed you down all this time.

Then you realise that what you need to do is relax you left hand completely

Then you realise that this has all been caused by squeezing your left hand too tightly to fret a note.[/quote]

Yes - this totally explains why I keep getting pain in my index and middle finger as well, it's not just a case of pressing my fingers too hard onto the frets, it's my overall hand position, i.e. the compensation of my other fingers being too far away so there's no real power in my fretting finger, if that makes sense.

[quote name='51m0n' post='485883' date='May 12 2009, 01:20 PM']Task:

With your index finger fret a note as normal. Then, play crotchets, and slowly relax you finger until the string buzzes, then apply more pressure as gradually as you can until it stops buzzing.

Is this significantly less pressure than you normally use to fret a note?

Repeat with each LH finger.

How much energy have you been wasting?

Now relax you LH over the strings like a mute. Place you hand such that you have the tip of you index finger in place to fret a note on the A string, you middle and ring will probably reach the E string. Apply pressure with the index fuinger until the note sounds.

Experiment with all other fingers on all strings.

You are trying to recondition yourself to use as littel motion and strength as possible with your LH, whilst muting all strings.

Now promise me something, [b]every time[/b] you pick up your bass to play in the next year, start with this simple exercise.

Really.[/quote]

I will. You can imagine how seriously difficult it's going to be for me to get that co-ordination, particularly now I've got into a bad habit on the left hand. I'm going to have to absolutely hammer this now to fix these issues so that I can play with more than one right hand technique. I could have carried on forever and a day, playing with floating thumb and getting fairly decent damping, but a massive compromise to speed and the consequences of that seriously inefficient left hand technique.

[quote name='51m0n' post='485883' date='May 12 2009, 01:20 PM']Then go on to the staccato exercise I mentioned before.

Your playing will be 100 times cleaner in 6 weeks.[/quote]

Seriously - thanks for all this. It really takes a lot to impress me, but total kudos to you, you have clearly expended major time and effort on this!

[51m0n]

Not problem, let me know how you get on

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485919' date='May 12 2009, 01:55 PM']Not problem, let me know how you get on [/quote]

Oh I will!

Thanks for zapping my Tuesday evening, uh and probably every other evening, you evil DarkLord of the bass!

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485931' date='May 12 2009, 02:02 PM']Oh I will!

Thanks for zapping my Tuesday evening, uh and probably every other evening, you evil DarkLord of the bass! [/quote]


Deadlock: "You'll learn to deal with Khaos, or Khaos will deal with you..."

'Nuff said!

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485897' date='May 12 2009, 01:31 PM']I spent 4 years of my life working on technique first and everything else waaaaay after. I could physically play almost anything i had ever heard at one point (before weird Garrison techniques and double thumping came along). Certainly cant make the same claim now, and I didnt understand everything I could play by any means, but my technique was super solid.

I taught people basic to advanced technique and basic to midle-ing theory for 15 years on and off.

LH cr@pness is easy to spot and hard to fix (fingers wiggle about miles off the fretboard is a dead giveaway)

RH cr@pness is harder to spot (often) and easier to fix (its physically easier to do it right IMO for most people, its quite tricky to work out exactly where its going wrong)

One other point, most people play too hard with their RH. You dont have to play pianissimo all the time, but if you play hard to begin with you cant dig in as far when you need to, it wont have the same huge effect when you do, and you will tend to fret to hard, be more tense and play less well as a result.[/quote]

Yes I've done quite a bit of work on dynamic control on the right hand, that element is passable, it was the other issues really impeding progress. I can actually see it in my left hand that there's too much movement, this is why I was trying to compensate with my right hand, by damping with my ring finger.

A question - when you spent that 4 yrs working on technique..when you now play a piece of music, do you have to individually work out for each note, which fingers you use to damp the other strings, or have you practiced that left hand damping in so many scale positions that it is now automatic no matter which fret/string you're playing on?

[hubrad]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='484802' date='May 11 2009, 08:51 AM']I really have sympathy for your lack of funds situation but...
At risk of pointing out the obvious, it's a bit like asking a taxi driver for a free ride, the guys really good enough to offer you some proper, experienced, useful tuition will generally be trying to make a living out of music (me included) pointers and posting on here are fine (and I've relayed tons of stuff) but there is nothing like a face to face.[/quote]
Actually it's more like asking a driver you meet in the car showroom for a lift. It's something I've always liked about most musicians, that knowledge shared is considered a positive energy. You don't know who you've asked.. they might have never even taken the driving test!
Even some of the top pros will pass on some of their experience; it's up to you how you apply it.
However I don't completely disagree with you Jakesbass, as everyone I know with any sense at all will also qualify the 'hints and tips from my experience' stuff by recommending that if someone really needs showing something in depth then a good teacher is second to none. To do the job properly takes pretty much the same effort as teaching in a school, although with considerably less risk of verbal or physical abuse at work! Lesson planning and the works, varying with each pupil. Proper hard work!

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485940' date='May 12 2009, 02:09 PM']Deadlock: "You'll learn to deal with Khaos, or Khaos will deal with you..."

'Nuff said! [/quote]

Hahaha!

"When he was ready, it was Nemesis himself who came for him.."

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485952' date='May 12 2009, 02:19 PM']Hahaha!

"When he was ready, it was Nemesis himself who came for him.."

[/quote]

Wow.

A lady who knows her 2000AD.

Much much respect

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485956' date='May 12 2009, 02:22 PM']Wow.

A lady who knows her 2000AD.

Much much respect [/quote]

I sense a fellow purist!

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485942' date='May 12 2009, 02:10 PM']Yes I've done quite a bit of work on dynamic control on the right hand, that element is passable, it was the other issues really impeding progress. I can actually see it in my left hand that there's too much movement, this is why I was trying to compensate with my right hand, by damping with my ring finger.

A question - when you spent that 4 yrs working on technique..when you now play a piece of music, do you have to individually work out for each note, which fingers you use to damp the other strings, or have you practiced that left hand damping in so many scale positions that it is now automatic no matter which fret/string you're playing on?[/quote]

When I play now, 95% of the time its entirely instinctive - has been for a very long time. Dampening is generally just not an issue at all.

But every now and the you find a piece that requires a bit more concentration. A good example is Freak Out by Chic. Its not very hard really, but to play it plucking every note to speed it can really matter which finger you lead with (esp if you use two fingers to pluck with) so that the first C on the A string is played with your RH middle finger. Why? Because its longer than your index so makes ascending a tiny bit easier.

That kind of thing does require a moments thought, but it shows itself up when you start bringing things up to speed - for me anyway. The you figure out your strategy and carry on.

If you are grooving away and free forming a funk line then you never ever think about it.

If you go to my myspace page (see sig below) and listen to the track Flute Beast (sorry for the poor recording, it was live off a single mic) that groove is the kind of thing I mean. There is masses of string skipping, muting (the verses are effectively the chorus groove but more staccato) etc going on, no unwanted ringing of strings (promise) and no thought at all for dampening strings with either hand. It just happens...



Obviously practicing getting that index finger working better is the real answer, but any little edge you can get helps.

Edited May 12, 2009 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485959' date='May 12 2009, 02:27 PM']I sense a fellow purist! [/quote]

Then this will interest you I think:-

[url="http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24705"]http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopi...=21&t=24705[/url]

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485965' date='May 12 2009, 02:31 PM']When I play now, 95% of the time its entirely instinctive - has been for a very long time. Dampening is generally just not an issue at all.

But every now and the you find a piece that requires a bit more concentration. A good example is Freak Out by Chic. Its not very hard really, but to play it plucking every note to speed it can really matter which finger you lead with (esp if you use two fingers to pluck with) so that the first C on the A string is played with your RH middle finger. Why? Because its longer than your index so makes ascending a tiny bit easier.

That kind of thing does require a moments thought, but it shows itself up when you start bringing things up to speed - for me anyway. The you figure out your strategy and carry on.

If you are grooving away and free forming a funk line then you never ever think about it.

If you go to my myspace page (see sig below) and listen to the track Flute Beast (sorry for the poor recording, it was live off a single mic) that groove is the kind of thing I mean. There is masses of string skipping, muting (the verses are effectively the chorus groove but more staccato) etc going on, no unwanted ringing of strings (promise) and no thought at all for dampening strings with either hand. It just happens...

Obviously practicing getting that index finger working better is the real answer, but any little edge you can get helps.[/quote]

OK - I was hoping that was the case!

I can't see your sig though - I was going to ask if you had any recordings.

[51m0n]

Dont know why you cant see my sig....

[url="http://www.myspace.com/simonnaishbass"]My MySpace Page[/url]

Flutebeast is very much a freeformed funk groove, if you know what I mean, none of the fills are worked out at all really. In fact the whole song dynamic came from playing and jamming it a lot....

Edited May 12, 2009 by 51m0n

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485977' date='May 12 2009, 02:43 PM']Then this will interest you I think:-

[url="http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24705"]http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopi...=21&t=24705[/url][/quote]

Haha, no way, that's cool! I can't wait to hear the music! Will definitely be interesting coming from a games developer!

I found a CPC 464 emulator recently - now my basslines sound even more like 80's computer games!

[solo4652]

Would this be of any use to you?

[url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/bass_lessons/"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/bass_lessons/[/url]

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485996' date='May 12 2009, 03:00 PM']Dont know why you cant see my sig....

[url="http://www.myspace.com/simonnaishbass"]My MySpace Page[/url]

Flutebeast is very much a freeformed funk groove, if you know what I mean, none of the fills are worked out at all really. In fact the whole song dynamic came from playing and jamming it a lot....[/quote]

OK yeah I can see it now.

Very free form!

Great grooves - this is the stuff I absolutely love! That track "What It Is" - IMMENSE bass sound!!! That's one filthy groove too! How did you get that sound? That sound at 2.08 - yeah! That's what I'm talking about! The sound up to 2.08 is very old style Ampeg-ish but I'm sensing it was not an Ampeg head!

Very clever rhythmic syncopation.

That's outrageously funky!

Edited May 12, 2009 by AM1

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='485998' date='May 12 2009, 03:01 PM']Haha, no way, that's cool! I can't wait to hear the music! Will definitely be interesting coming from a games developer!

I found a CPC 464 emulator recently - now my basslines sound even more like 80's computer games![/quote]

Being a confirmed ABC Warriors nut, if they get this wrong I will go Joe Pineapples on their collective butts, except for the transvestite thing; I'd look ridiculous, I mean really!

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='486015' date='May 12 2009, 03:12 PM']OK yeah I can see it now.

Very free form!

Great grooves - this is the stuff I absolutely love! That track "What It Is" - IMMENSE bass sound!!! That's one filthy groove too! How did you get that sound? That sound at 2.08 - yeah! That's what I'm talking about! The sound up to 2.08 is very old style Ampeg-ish but I'm sensing it was not an Ampeg head!

Very clever rhythmic syncopation.

That's outrageously funky![/quote]

Now you're making me blush :blush:

Thank you.

'What It Is' is neat isnt it! Right little pant swinger IMO.

A little thread on that track - goes into where the inspiration came from (guitarist rock nonsense), and how I got all the bass sounds in some detail:-

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803[/url]

To cut a long story short, thats my Roscoe Century Standard 5 string direct (every part). No mic'ing of amps at all.

That middle 8 bit is with all eq flat, and just favouring the bridge pickup a hint. There is no EQ post production, but for the top parts in the chorus I scooped out the bass with the onboard preamp.

So I guess you get what you pay for - its the most expensive bass I've ever played (unfortunately replacing it would cost significantly more now the exchange rate has gone bonkers).

I got it from Mark at [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk[/url], and it is an amazing instrument. Cant recommend Mark enough.

Edited May 12, 2009 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

I would just reiterate - its got NO EQ.

Its not just cos its a great instrument. All basses sound better to my ears the less you eq them.

No one has said yet anything other than what a great bass tone is in 'What It Is', most people assume its this amp, that cab, loads of eq, clever effects - its not. Its just a nice compressor and flat eq.

Try it on your bass. Just be sure to have fairly new strings.

[AM1]

[quote name='51m0n' post='486051' date='May 12 2009, 03:42 PM']Now you're making me blush :blush:

Thank you.

'What It Is' is neat isnt it! Right little pant swinger IMO.

A little thread on that track - goes into where the inspiration came from (guitarist rock nonsense), and how I got all the bass sounds in some detail:-

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803[/url][/quote]

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

[quote name='51m0n' post='486051' date='May 12 2009, 03:42 PM']To cut a long story short, thats my Roscoe Century Standard 5 string direct (every part). No mic'ing of amps at all.

That middle 8 bit is with all eq flat, and just favouring the bridge pickup a hint. There is no EQ post production, but for the top parts in the chorus I scooped out the bass with the onboard preamp.

So I guess you get what you pay for - its the most expensive bass I've ever played (unfortunately replacing it would cost significantly more now the exchange rate has gone bonkers).[/quote]

Did you use that same bass to record all the bass parts? What's the effect on the higher register parts, it's a bit synthy and an almost wah effect?

I'm really surprised that there's flat EQ in the middle 8! No effects at all??

The part that comes in 2.08 is insanely funky! Seriously, that's pure FUNK! I am a slave to the funk - no matter how hard I try to resist and branch into other styles, it lures me back!

[quote name='51m0n' post='486051' date='May 12 2009, 03:42 PM']I got it from Mark at [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk[/url], and it is an amazing instrument. Cant recommend Mark enough.[/quote]

Sounds like a great bass - but technique is king, as you've demonstrated so well.

[Protium]

I will teach you in exchange for your Porsche

[51m0n]

[quote name='AM1' post='486071' date='May 12 2009, 04:17 PM']Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.



Did you use that same bass to record all the bass parts? What's the effect on the higher register parts, it's a bit synthy and an almost wah effect?

I'm really surprised that there's flat EQ in the middle 8! No effects at all??

The part that comes in 2.08 is insanely funky! Seriously, that's pure FUNK! I am a slave to the funk - no matter how hard I try to resist and branch into other styles, it lures me back!



Sounds like a great bass - but technique is king, as you've demonstrated so well.[/quote]

One bass for all the parts - its got a huge number of tones in it - all good it appears!

Chorus high register there are two tracks, LHS is a slapped part with the preamp sucking all bass out ans rolled onto bridge pup, sounds like a clav a bit. RHS is 50/50 mix of pups slapped with an envelope filter on it (only effect I used other than the compressor - honest!!) - its a freeware VSTi envelope filteer (Classic Envelope I think its called, part of a large collection). Its an excellent filter effect for the money

Chorus Low register is fingerstyle neck pup 100%

Verse id slapped, no pops, neck pup 100%

Middle 8 has no effects other than a bit of compression (which is on the whole bass group in fact). No eq. Its slapped, the only pops are the little offbeats clicks, they're all muted (one is a bit late actually - damned annoying!). Really glad you like it. It took a lot of work to get that take I'm afraid, I'm really interested in trying to write more melodic slap lines when I can get away with it.


In terms of what you can do with bass, and if you want a real laugh, listen to Skatabug, the 'guitar' part is the same bass, right up top register of the neck on the D & G strings, preamp used to remove all bass and mid, put through a comp set just so, added a touch of chorus, no pitch shifting at all. Completely convinced my guitarist that I'd found another guitar player. ROFL!

[AM1]

[quote name='Protium' post='486082' date='May 12 2009, 04:26 PM']I will teach you in exchange for your Porsche [/quote]

Ha, the day you buy one, you might as well hand over your driving licence!

A fine example of German engineering - built to be driven on German roads - NOT British roads!

I sold that car a long time ago, but you should have heard the noise when it was over-revved from 6th gear back to 4th. It was SEX.

Don't even get me started on configurable stability management.

Beautiful flat six engine! I think the six is for the amount of points you get every time you drive it. Hehe!

Digression alert! Back to bass!