Wilton Felder/The Ponk!

[Misdee]

 Wilton Felder's tone on this track was pretty typical of so many examples from that era , and as others have pointed out, it sounds magnificent in the track. The fact that Wilton is a great player helps a bit , too. I was listening to the isolated bass track of John McVie  ( another great player) on Go Your Own Way from Rumours the other day  and considering he played it on an Alembic, that sounds pretty "ponky" too ( I would say "plunky", but we'll agree to differ😄)

It makes me smile when I think how fashionable these more muted retro tones have become again . What happened the the 1980's when modern was best and flatwounds were practically illegal ? The more" ponky " the better seems to be the zeitgeist of our time when it comes to bass  nowadays. Its interesting to consider that it's twenty years since D'Angelo released Voodoo with Pino Palladino reinventing himself with a P Bass sporting flatwound strings to such great effect, and legions of would-be trendy and hip bass players have subsequently fallen over themselves to copy his  inspired approach. How ironic! I love these  vintage bass tones, and the instruments they were created with, but it would be nice to see a bit more creativity from some contemporary players. Its nice to be inspired and emulate, but I always feel that the players being emulated were more often than not inspiring because they were original and individual in some way, if that makes sense.

Anyhow,  if you can't beat them, join 'em, I'm off to play  my 74 AVRI Jazz with TI flats this afternoon😄. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Misdee

[chris_b]

I'd say that John McVie was using a pick on this one.

[wateroftyne]

7 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I'd say that John McVie was using a pick on this one.

Absolutely.

[Misdee]

100% pick and flats for John McVie, I'm less sure whether Wilton Felder is using a pick .

[drTStingray]

 

100% pick and flats for John McVie, I'm less sure whether Wilton Felder is using a pick .

Definitely pick - flats I doubt as they'd been more or less illegal in the UK since the late 60s - I know the US took a while to catch up but if B Edwards had bought his Stingray a year later it would have come with rounds rather than flats. Flats were complete anathema by the 80s (possibly except some studio studio employed musicians).

Whilst i too love the Pino stuff on Voodoo and with John Mayer, I have always equated putting flatwounds on an Alembic with putting cross ply tyres on a Ferrari. Of course, most cars had cross ply until the early 60s...... 😂

Ive been playing my rounds equipped 3 band Stingray - with a bit of muting it sounds good enough for Sir Duke and the like, but it's also great for a slap fest like Hair (Graham Central Station). Both if which im using as part of a practice routine currently - and realising how out of shape my playing is getting from not playing gigs 😯 I'm afraid my flats equipped Classic Stingray and Fretless Stingray remain in their respective cases 😏

Edited April 26, 2020 by drTStingray

[Misdee]

If you listen to the decay of the notes , it sounds like flats to me, especially allowing for the extended frequency range inherent to Alembic basses. Rounds would likely have been much more twangy on that bass. Even allowing for pick/muting technique, it sounds like flats.  This example from the same sessions sounds a bit less ambiguous :

 

 Alembic were not at all averse to flatwound strings on their basses in this era, and were enthusiastic exponents of Pyramid Gold flats back in their early days . Phil Lesh and also ,I think, Jack Cassidy used flats on their  Alembics.   Maybe John McVie was still old school enough in the mid-70's to be reluctant to move to roundwounds. I know Chuck Rainey and Willie Weeks, for example, didn't switch to rounds until the early 1980s.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Misdee

[chris_b]

This one sounds like fingers to me.

[Misdee]

Definitely less clicky than the first example, but still some pick-like attack, even if it is fingers.   Not dissimilar to Wilton Felder in that respect.

[drTStingray]

9 hours ago, Misdee said:

If you listen to the decay of the notes , it sounds like flats to me, especially allowing for the extended frequency range inherent to Alembic basses. Rounds would likely have been much more twangy on that bass. Even allowing for pick/muting technique, it sounds like flats.  This example from the same sessions sounds a bit less ambiguous :

 

 Alembic were not at all averse to flatwound strings on their basses in this era, and were enthusiastic exponents of Pyramid Gold flats back in their early days . Phil Lesh and also ,I think, Jack Cassidy used flats on their  Alembics.   Maybe John McVie was still old school enough in the mid-70's to be reluctant to move to roundwounds. I know Chuck Rainey and Willie Weeks, for example, didn't switch to rounds until the early 1980s.

Not sure about the blues version of Fleetwood Mac - a lot of people playing any form of rock music in the UK were influenced by John Entwhistle and the very available Rotosound 66 Roundwounds.

Black US soul players were notable for their aggressive plucking (and often very high action on their Precisions or Jazzes). You don't surprise me regarding the late changeover by people like Chuck Rainey but the much brighter R and /disco sound (eg Marcus Miller) started around 1977. By 1980 in the UK R and B had a fat but bright sound (if it wasn't keyboard bass) and even punk had very bright sounds. So did people like Willie Weeks go through a transition period using both. I had read that Jamerson upset people and lost work, amongst other things by refusing to move to the brighter sound - I had no idea other similar bassists clung to their flats. 

I would very much doubt John McVie would have flats on his Alembic but I do like his bass sound very much 👍

Rounds can be tamed with decent muting technique - or allowed to let rip as per some rock bass players and people like Mark King or Stanley Clark. I am always reminded earlier Stingrays shipped with GHS flats and indeed Bernard Edwards' bass will have had those - contrasting greatly with Louis Johnson's roundwound sound on similar instruments. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by drTStingray

[Misdee]

This isolated bass track sounds  pretty "ponky"  too, to my ears at least. All the more surprising when you consider that it is LA session ace David Hungate in the early 1980's:

Sounds great in the finished  track, though.

[chris_b]

Listen to Nathan Watts and you get the same type of bass line. It sounds great in the mix, but when he takes a break (at about 3.30) the sound is clunky, buzzy, over played and pretty horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6f6BOKXXxg

The reality is that these bass parts were never designed to be heard in isolation. They were a signal provided to the desk where they would be re-EQ'd, compressed and mixed into the track. Listen to the original Motown mix of I Want You Back and compare it to the remixed HD version. The HD version is the same bass line but has a much better, fuller overall sound, because nowadays songs are intended to be played to the listener on speakers designed to a much higher spec.

[Misdee]

All just   goes to show how a "nasty" sound soloed is necessary  to have some cut-through in the final mix.