Self-teaching versus structured lessons

[AM1]

Aloha

Interested in general comments about how people learned/are learning to play the bass, i.e. self-teaching or structured lessons.

Regards

AM

[Sean]

Self-teaching? I'm not sure how I would define self-teaching. Over the years, I've heard people make the comment, "he's self-taught, y'know" about someone that's a very impressive musician and this gives me a mental picture, rightly or wrongly, of someone who has never bought a tuition book, never taken advice from anyone, not taken any of the gems that are posted here to heart and has just listened to records and worked it all out from there.

I've had quite a few lessons over the years and I'd recommend anyone to have them but there's a big responsibility (if that's the right word) to go out there and discover educational/tuition material for yourself and to work out your own development with an instrument. There are some superb books that approach learning in a very structured way, come with a CD and contain lots of the wisdom of the author - is this self-learning? I don't think so. Sure I have to do the research in deciding which book would suit me best and I have to muster the motivation to sit down and go through the lessons therein but I've effectively paid to have the author teach me. Whether I've been to see a human tutor or got a lesson out of a book, I still have to put in the hard graft of learning the stuff in my own time and it's up to me to find the motivation.

Any lesson, whether it is with a tutor or by yourself should have a decent structure for you to get the most out of it and it should logically work toward "the next step" whatever that may be within the context of what you're learning. Say for instance, if you are learning rhythm reading we would learn to read quarter note pattern and then eighth notes and then sixteenths and then syncopated stuff etc rather than just leaping in at "flysh*t" Tower of Power stuff.

The reason why you should have lessons with a tutor (a good one) is that it's a real person with whom you can interact and they can spot if you are developing any bad habits that might restrict your playing or even long term, give you an injury like carpal tunnel or RSI. Also with a book, it only explains something one way whereas with a tutor you can ask him to try to explain stuff in a different way. Tutors can be expensive though if you have a tight budget and books relatively cheap but a mixture of the right types of both and time spent practising will be hugely beneficial to everyone.

Tutors can inspire more than books for obvious reasons and you might find that if you get the right tutor, he or she will be your mentor for many years or even become your wife/husband.

Hopefully you can form some sort of coherent reply from my ramblings, I'm sure the usual suspects will come along to expand soon enough.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Sean

[AM1]

[quote name='Sean' post='354142' date='Dec 14 2008, 11:42 AM']Tutors can inspire more than books for obvious reasons and you might find that if you get the right tutor, he or she will be your mentor for many years or even become your wife/husband. [/quote]

Don't be telling the Big Chief that!

[Adrenochrome]

I've never had a lesson on guitar or bass.
However, I studied music at school up to age 16, and I read/watch/copy/listen pretty much every day and so I'd never pretend that I'd come up with all the answers myself.

[i]edit for piss-poor spelling[/i]

Edited December 14, 2008 by Adrenochrome

[EssentialTension]

I've been playing for 30 years. I've never had a lesson. I'm not too bad a player but I'm confident I'd be a much better player if I had ever had some lessons, in particular when I was young.

Edited December 14, 2008 by EssentialTension

[leonshelley01]

Never had any lessons as such, but through books, other musicians and learning covers, I learnt a lot of the basics. More recently, using the Lick Library Bass Legends series of DVDs has increased both my knowledge of theory and "chops" so I am more confident in my own style of playing.

[Thunderthumbs]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='354241' date='Dec 14 2008, 02:13 PM']I've been playing for 30 years. I've never had a lesson. I'm not too bad a player but I'm confident I'd be a much better player if I had ever had some lessons, in particular when I was young.[/quote]
+1

Started playing bass around the age of 13 (so approx 29 years). Bought myself a bass, then phoned up a music shop to ask them what notes the strings were tuned to. From then on, everything was pretty much by ear. Listened to everything I liked, and tried to play it. So on that side, it's been great.

However, I would've loved to have had bass lessons when I was younger, preferably by a really inspirational tutor, as I'm sure that by doing everything my own way, I've probably lots of bad habits that've hankered me along the way, and perhaps I could be a lot better than I am (and I'd class myself modestly as rather competent).

If I could advise someone younger, I'd [b]definitely[/b] go down the tutor route coupled with listening and playing what you like for the fun/personal pleasure.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Thunderthumbs

[Golchen]

Apart from an initial start with piano, I'm self taught on several instrument. Personally, I think that you can progress a lot quicker with THE RIGHT TUTOR (important!).

I pick things up very quickly if I'm shown, but give me a book and I'm hopeless! I'd have preferred some lessons over the years, even now (!) but boy have I saved a lot of money ...........

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='354241' date='Dec 14 2008, 02:13 PM']I've been playing for 30 years. I've never had a lesson. I'm not too bad a player but I'm confident I'd be a much better player if I had ever had some lessons, in particular when I was young.[/quote]

I should perhaps add that I have used instructional books and I've even taught myself an all too limited amount of theory from books but never been systematic about it.

Mind you, I believe Mrs Tension has got me Levine's Jazz Theory book for Xmas so watch me go next year.

[Bilbo]

Professionally self taught

Really, tho', I am primarily self taught is as much as I have had very few lessons (3 or 4 in 28 years of playing) but I think there is a serious point to be made here.

Firstly, finding a good, inspirational tutor, someone who can give you weekly sustained tution over a period of time, is not as easy as I would like if you are living in in a rural area (as I have done all my life) and the better you get, the harder it is. I could travel to London and have a lesson with someone like Lawrence Cottle but add £30 traveling to the cost of the lesson and its harder to justify when you are making your way in the world. Secondly, and this is my main point really, the cost of tuition is actually prohibitive for many ordinary working class people. £30 an hour is the current rate and I would consider that to be too expensive for most parents or young people trying to make ends meet. Some of these college type environments are increasingly iffy, due to the way they are funded, and there are some colleges where the tutors are only mediocre, even if you can afford to attend (either by paying for the course of by affording to live while you attend). The kind of intensive learning that is available out there is actually a fairly middle class indulgence, in my opinion. (I can't afford it and I earn well above the average wage).

I suspect most people are self taught through necessity. Also, a lot of valuable learning is done through rehearsals, jam sessions, gigs etc., any time spent with more experienced musicians outside of formal lessons - stuff that money can't buy.

I genuinely believe that everyone is fundamentally self-taught because I know many 'students' who have lessons but fail to progress significantly because THEY don't do the work (i.e. their tutor keeps them fed with things to work on but they chose not to and, as a consequence, fail to get any better). A tutor can only give you direction. You'll only get good if you work at it, teacher or not.

[The Funk]

I had 6 lessons in 1999. I'm still processing all the information. My teacher went from teacher to mentor to friend.

I prefer books though, I have to say. Books + Teacher + Playing with musicians better than you + Listening to classic performances + Messing around on your own + Gigging + Jam Sessions = the ideal.

[silky13]

I've only ever had lessons on lead guitar, never had any structured lessons on bass with a tutor, the way I learnt really was picking songs I wanted to play and playing them and watching lots of Primus and Billy Sheehan!

The other thing that has helped me improve alot over the last couple of years has been playing in a very solid 3piece band, because there is nowhere to really hide. The bass and drums must be tight and together to allow the lead to do his stuff and therefore it is natural to have to practise more on the techniques and songs to get it tight as!