Raslee Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hi all, ok...so i'm in total new territory soloing! - I'm jammin some funky stuff with another band and we got this groove based around G pentatonic (G7) and thats about as far as my theory goes. So i want to construct a solo, should it be around the notes of the G pentatonic scale only or can i go elsewhere? the groove is repetitive holding on the G and C notes of the pentatonic minor scale. I'm not too hot on theory but kinda understand modes ish etc...can i play any modesover the G7 chord-as i say I'm groovin' a b-line on a Gm pentatonic. Please forgive my dumbness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Gotta admit, bit stumped as to what to suggest really. Here goes though... This is a very basic way to look at it, but look at the context of the song, i.e. what type of a piece is it? Does it feel funky? does it feel bluesy? How does it '[i]feel[/i]'? I find my note choice is often swayed by the this. If it is funky, as you say, I would suggest mixolydian as a start (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7; G A B C D E F). Then, learn which notes you naturally feel pushed towards in the song, often the root, but not always. Work out interesting ideas that take you away from (i.e. building tension, and giving a 'shape' to a solo), and then get you back to those 'key' notes (i.e. resolve to those notes), and don't forget about rhythm, dynamics and range to make your solo more interesting (i.e. adding texture and changing the 'shape' of the solo). These are overly simplistic suggestions, but it's how I got started in learning what makes a good solo. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 [quote name='mcgraham' post='304215' date='Oct 10 2008, 10:51 PM']Gotta admit, bit stumped as to what to suggest really. Here goes though... This is a very basic way to look at it, but look at the context of the song, i.e. what type of a piece is it? Does it feel funky? does it feel bluesy? How does it '[i]feel[/i]'? I find my note choice is often swayed by the this. If it is funky, as you say, I would suggest mixolydian as a start (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7; G A B C D E F). Then, learn which notes you naturally feel pushed towards in the song, often the root, but not always. Work out interesting ideas that take you away from (i.e. building tension, and giving a 'shape' to a solo), and then get you back to those 'key' notes (i.e. resolve to those notes), and don't forget about rhythm, dynamics and range to make your solo more interesting (i.e. adding texture and changing the 'shape' of the solo). These are overly simplistic suggestions, but it's how I got started in learning what makes a good solo. Mark[/quote] Many thanks Mark, i shall give the Mixolydian a go. I'm never sure which modes go with which chords etc but i can see how the mixolydian has the notes of a dominant 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 If your band are playing around G7, then, "The world is your lobster, Terry" . But to keep it simple - in addition to G Mix - you could incorporate some Blues scale phrases (G-Bb-C-Db-D-F-G). Ideally, you would have the scales and modes under your belt before attempting a solo... But, being thrown in at the deep end is often a quicker way to learn. It does focus the mind. Good luck. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Another possible approach is to made up a simple melody, lick, or riff, that sounds good over the solo section, then develop variations of it, e.g. miss some notes out, transpose it, alter the phrasing, invert the rhythm, make it ascending rather than descending, for example. Then try to put all these variations together into something that moves in a musical direction. In my experience, bass solos don't have to be very long; in fact, like speeches, sometimes it is best if you keep them concise and to the point. Also, don't be too worried about using chromatic notes - they can be very effective in this style of music. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 A good way to do this is to park the theory to one side for a bit and use your ears. Free your creative side from the limitations of what you fingers can (currently) do, or from the listed notes of the modes and scales, by creating the solo with your voice, not your bass. The method is this: Get a recording of the section you need to solo over. Play it and sing or hum (or doobie doobie doo) notes that fit over the top of it, according to your ears, not "the rules". Don't worry, if your ears work well you will stay within the rules anyway. Music is like that. Once you've some ideas record the two - the backing track and your vocal noodling - edit and improve then learn the tune you have created on your bass. This may lead you along some interesting new finger developmental paths Try making it go somewhere, to "tell a story" and to have some kind of shape. One way would be this .. Start out with an announcement statement (so your bass says "Hey I've started!") for, say, 4 bars, then 8 bars introducing a melody or groove, then build for 8 and then have some kind of climax at the end. Then everyone will know you've been soloing and you'd finished. That way you can avoid the random noodlings or million note mayhem that people sometimes end up playing when they haven't planned it ... of course either of those things may fit your style and music but at least it will be planned. Don't be afraid to use gaps and long notes. One very nicely constructed solo is the guitar break in the Walker Brothers No Regrets. I'm not suggesting you copy this , but listen to the way it moves along through phases and works with the other things going on in the backing. Here's the youtube. The solo is 4 minutes in (!) OG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 (edited) [quote name='OldGit' post='304384' date='Oct 11 2008, 01:33 PM']A good way to do this is to park the theory to one side for a bit and use your ears. Free your creative side from the limitations of what you fingers can (currently) do, or from the listed notes of the modes and scales, by creating the solo with your voice, not your bass.[/quote] This is very very good advice indeed. In fact I'd go so far as to say you're better off learning the theory behind what you can already play first, which can prevent playing stuff because you know it should work in theory rather than because you really feel it. Given that your name on here is Rasta I would hazard a guess that you like reggae... a natural and felt form of music if ever there was one. Use your ears first and good luck Jake Edited October 11, 2008 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Rasta' post='304198' date='Oct 10 2008, 11:04 AM']I'm jammin some funky stuff with another band and we got this groove based around G pentatonic (G7)[/quote] If the rhythm chord is G7, which uses the [u]major[/u] third ( B ) and [u]minor[/u] seventh ( F ) intervals relative to the G root, then your Mixolydian will sound fine. However, you also say- [quote name='Rasta' post='304198' date='Oct 10 2008, 11:04 AM']the groove is repetitive holding on the G and C notes of the pentatonic minor scale.[/quote] If the rhythm chord is Gm7, which uses the [u]minor[/u] third ( Bb ) and [u]minor[/u] seventh ( F ) intervals relative to the G root, I would suggest Dorian Mode. (Dorian can sound very funky by popping the octaves of the major 6 to the minor 7!) As always though, The First Rule of Music applies to all of this... Please, let me know if this makes sense to you. We could go much deeper if it does! Edited October 11, 2008 by GonzoBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 There might be a fair amount of ambiguity as to whether it's actually G7 or Gm7. It can be fun to mess around with that by putting in some bluesy minor 3rd - Major 3rd slides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='304755' date='Oct 12 2008, 12:20 PM']There might be a fair amount of ambiguity as to whether it's actually G7 or Gm7. It can be fun to mess around with that by putting in some bluesy minor 3rd - Major 3rd slides.[/quote] Thanks for all your advice and support guys, i pulled off my first solo lastnight basically around the G mix and pentatonic...it went well judging by the comment i got from the percussionist who said it reminded him of Stanley Clarke...ahem...that'll do for me sir. I sang my solo as well...friggin freaked the living daylights out the others as i never sing or say anything lol....lovin it' thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='304755' date='Oct 12 2008, 01:20 AM']...bluesy minor 3rd - Major 3rd slides.[/quote] VERY funky indeed! :brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Also, learn to play the (vocal or other) melody of the tune as that will give you some ideas and pieces that work with the chords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='305210' date='Oct 12 2008, 10:02 PM']Also, learn to play the (vocal or other) melody of the tune as that will give you some ideas and pieces that work with the chords[/quote] I've found midi files to be very useful for this, since the vocal melody is already translated to an instrument. [url="http://www.musicrobot.com/"]HERE[/url] is one of many midi search engines out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 As one of the UKs top bassists (modest too!) I find myself singing in a `scat' style over a piece; ie bi di bap de bappa zappata doing biddle-ee zeng a whacka di-diiiip. I then translate this onto said bass guitar! Try it. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 [quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='307170' date='Oct 15 2008, 03:49 PM']As one of the UKs top bassists (modest too!) I find myself singing in a `scat' style over a piece; ie bi di bap de bappa zappata doing biddle-ee zeng a whacka di-diiiip. I then translate this onto said bass guitar! Try it. ![/quote] Hey Doc! Nice to know I do what one of the UK's top bassist does [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=29442&view=findpost&p=304384"]Post number 6 [/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='307179' date='Oct 15 2008, 04:05 PM']Hey Doc! Nice to know I do what one of the UK's top bassist does [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=29442&view=findpost&p=304384"]Post number 6 [/url][/quote] Sorry m8 - need new lenses! Good to know that we think alike eh!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 [quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='307239' date='Oct 15 2008, 04:57 PM']Sorry m8 - need new lenses! Good to know that we think alike eh!?[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Also, don't just see Mixolydian from G see: Aeolian from A Locrian from B Ionian from C Dorian from D Phrygian from E Lydian from F (I'll need to check that... later. It's hard without my bass. haha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='Toasted' post='307717' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:54 AM']Also, don't just see Mixolydian from G see: Aeolian from A Locrian from B Ionian from C Dorian from D Phrygian from E Lydian from F (I'll need to check that... later. It's hard without my bass. haha)[/quote] Correct! I find that the resolution to the root of the given chord `centre' gives an interesting `improv' or `solo' tool ie. play over an A Aeolian, then resolve the phrasing to the G root - in fact, try it with any of the modes shown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Toasted does theory. Whodathunkit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 [quote name='Toasted' post='313213' date='Oct 23 2008, 05:58 PM']Toasted does theory. Whodathunkit.[/quote] Whodathunkit - great band name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='316703' date='Oct 28 2008, 01:48 PM']Whodathunkit - great band name![/quote] [url="http://www.whodathunkit.info/main.html"]http://www.whodathunkit.info/main.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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