Output levels of passive basses - can it be altered?

[JTUK]

Don't touch the basses if you like everything else about them bar the difference in levels.

Have a look at these guys and get a quality non coloured pedal so you can level the gains
on both basses.
[url="http://www.radialeng.com/bigshotio.php"]http://www.radialeng.com/bigshotio.php[/url]

[Dingus]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1395996659' post='2408696']
Maybe it's just me (and I have no idea of the science behind this, if there is any!) but when I reduce the volume on any passive bass (and especially a P-type bass) there appears to be a loss of tone too... Completely subjective of course!
[/quote]

Passive basses do indeed always sound best ( or at their fullest and most dynamic, let me put it that way) with the volume on full .

[redstriper]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1396021197' post='2409142']
Passive basses do indeed always sound best ( or at their fullest and most dynamic, let me put it that way) with the volume on full .
[/quote]

[quote]Maybe it's just me (and I have no idea of the science behind this, if there is any!) but when I reduce the volume on any passive bass (and especially a P-type bass) there appears to be a loss of tone too..[/quote]

There is science behind this, but I can't remember the explanation.
Basically, the full tone of the pick ups comes through with the volume on full, while reducing the volume also attenuates the upper frequencies.
I don't like the tone with the volume on full.
I play reggae and I keep the volume under 75% to reduce the treble and upper mids that are present on full volume.
I haven't noticed any loss of dynamics, just a much warmer old school tone.

[quote]Well, presuming that you are right and the pickups on your bass wern't rewound( or changed completely) prior to your ownership ( as far as I know, without dismantling the pickup it can be hard to tell if it has been rewound or rebuilt ) one reason for the hit and miss nature of vintage Fender pickups is the slightly haphazard way in which they were wound in the olden days.[/quote]

I know the history of this bass and the pick ups are original and never rewound.

[quote]The truth is that no one gave it much thought at the time. The idea that these guitars would become holy relics would have been laughed at. More wire on a pickup will make it louder, but also reduces the high frequency response, and some magnets stay magnetized better than others. . [/quote]

I don't think of it as a holy relic at all, just a working instrument that happens to suit me perfectly tone wise.
They must have used a heck of a lot of wire, because it's the deepest sounding Jazz bass I've ever heard.

TO the OP -
Sorry for derailing your thread.
I understand your problem because I don't like weak pick ups.
Be careful replacing them though, as a lot of new pick ups are also weak IME.

[Dingus]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1396032325' post='2409315']
There is science behind this, but I can't remember the explanation.
Basically, the full tone of the pick ups comes through with the volume on full, while reducing the volume also attenuates the upper frequencies.
I don't like the tone with the volume on full.
I play reggae and I keep the volume under 75% to reduce the treble and upper mids that are present on full volume.
I haven't noticed any loss of dynamics, just a much warmer old school tone.



I know the history of this bass and the pick ups are original and never rewound.



I don't think of it as a holy relic at all, just a working instrument that happens to suit me perfectly tone wise.
They must have used a heck of a lot of wire, because it's the deepest sounding Jazz bass I've ever heard.

TO the OP -
Sorry for derailing your thread.
I understand your problem because I don't like weak pick ups.
Be careful replacing them though, as a lot of new pick ups are also weak IME.
[/quote]

To address some of these points in order, if you roll off the volume on one Jazz Bass pickup by about a quarter and the other by about an eighth it is an old trick that some bass players use makes them kind of out-of-phase , and that does attenuate the treble , similar to rolling off the tone control a bit.

I am glad that you the peace of mind of knowing that the pickups are all original on your old bass, but it isn't the end of the world if old pickups have been rewound or replaced , anyway. There are quite a few specialists in rewinding them to be vintage-correct, or even improved on the original sound. MojoTone in North Carolina are one such example of notable celebrity pickup rewinds and general hot-rodding of old pickups. .

All pickups wear out eventually, and most the ones on the market today sound better than vintage ones ever did, once you strip away all the hyperbole. I've played and owned a lot of old Fenders , and I've never played an old Jazz Bass that had pickups that sounded as good or had the kind of output of the current off-the-shelf Fender Custom Shop Vintage '60's Jazz Bass pickups . Those pickups are overwound ( extra wire) and sound magnificent , to my ears anyway. If someone had an old Jazz Bass with duff pickups a set of those CS ones would be a good replacement .

[redstriper]

[quote]if you roll off the volume on one Jazz Bass pickup by about a quarter and the other by about an eighth it is an old trick that some bass players use makes them kind of out-of-phase , and that does attenuate the treble , similar to rolling off the tone control a bit. [/quote]

I only use the neck pick up with the tone off.
There is a marked increase in treble and upper mids with the volume on full.
It isn't the same tone as using the tone control, which adds higher frequencies.

[quote]I am glad that you the peace of mind of knowing that the pickups are all original on your old bass, but it isn't the end of the world if old pickups have been rewound [/quote]

It gives me no peace of mind at all, I'm not bothered either way but I just happen to know they are original, unlike much of the bass that has been replaced over the years.

[quote]All pickups wear out eventually, and most the ones on the market today sound better than vintage ones ever did, once you strip away all the hyperbole. I've played and owned a lot of old Fenders , and I've never played an old Jazz Bass that had pickups that sounded as good or had the kind of output of the current off-the-shelf Fender Custom Shop Vintage '60's Jazz Bass pickups . Those pickups are overwound ( extra wire) and sound magnificent , [b]to my ears anyway[/b]. If someone had an old Jazz Bass with duff pickups a set of those CS ones would be a good replacement . [/quote]

I wonder when mine will wear out?
They've done over 50 years so far

I have only played a few pre CBS Fenders and they have all had very powerful, juicy sounding pick ups.

I have owned and played some modern US and Mexican Fenders, but no CS models (yet).
The pick ups have sounded weak in all of them compared to my old beast.
It's a shame because I would love to find a new bass that could give me the same depth of tone.

It is all subjective of course and I know my taste tonewise is not like most player's.

[Dingus]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1396039105' post='2409426']
I only use the neck pick up with the tone off.
There is a marked increase in treble and upper mids with the volume on full.
It isn't the same tone as using the tone control, which adds higher frequencies.



It gives me no peace of mind at all, I'm not bothered either way but I just happen to know they are original, unlike much of the bass that has been replaced over the years.



I wonder when mine will wear out?
They've done over 50 years so far

I have only played a few pre CBS Fenders and they have all had very powerful, juicy sounding pick ups.

I have owned and played some modern US and Mexican Fenders, but no CS models (yet).
The pick ups have sounded weak in all of them compared to my old beast.
It's a shame because I would love to find a new bass that could give me the same depth of tone.

It is all subjective of course and I know my taste tonewise is not like most player's.
[/quote]

If you want to try out some Fender CS' 60'S pickups, they are fitted as standard to all the post-2012 American Standard Jazz Basses, so if you see one of those in a shop, that is your chance to give them a whirl. You can instantly tell them from the pre-2012 standard ( non-CS) Fender pickups because the Custom Shop ones have raised pole pieces, whereas the previous ones had flat pole pieces flush with the pickup case.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1396039485' post='2409430']
If you want to try out some Fender CS' 60'S pickups, they are fitted as standard to all the post-2012 American Standard Jazz Basses, so if you see one of those in a shop, that is your chance to give them a whirl. You can instantly tell them from the pre-2012 standard ( non-CS) Fender pickups because the Custom Shop ones have raised pole pieces, whereas the previous ones had flat pole pieces flush with the pickup case.
[/quote]

Thanks for the tip - I will definitely give them a go when I get the opportunity.
It is hard to know in a shop though, it's only when I get home to compare with my old bass through the same amp that I would know for sure.

First world problems eh

[icastle]

I've always found 'off the shelf' Jazz Basses to be a little bit thin and weedy, mine is no exception.
I just stuff one of these in the signal path.

http://www.fishman.com/product/b-ii-for-acoustic-bass

[Captain Rumble]

[quote name='Hank Scorpio' timestamp='1395781999' post='2406333']
Try raising the pickups, so the magnets are closer to the strings.
[/quote]
on my old mex jazz I did the opposite and lowered the pickups ie moved them away from the strings resulting in an increase in bottom end and an increase in output, I tried this after some research into how different pickups work and reading that the shape of the magnetic field generated by the pickup needs to be taken into consideration when deciding how close to the strings to place the pickups. For those clever chaps that can prove im talking rubbish all I can say is it worked very effectively for me

[Annoying Twit]

I've been impressed, so far, at how much using a Behringer BDI21 makes a passive bass active. The EQ seems very useful.

Hence, while I'm unlikely to buy anything in the very short term, I'm curious to know what other bass preamps are useful, and in particular which ones would be even better than the Behringer. I note the recommendation of the Fishman outboard. What other options are there, and would they be better than the BDI21 in active-ising a bass?

[redstriper]

[quote name='Captain Rumble' timestamp='1396191408' post='2410765']
on my old mex jazz I did the opposite and lowered the pickups ie moved them away from the strings resulting in an increase in bottom end and an increase in output, I tried this after some research into how different pickups work and reading that the shape of the magnetic field generated by the pickup needs to be taken into consideration when deciding how close to the strings to place the pickups. For those clever chaps that can prove im talking rubbish all I can say is it worked very effectively for me
[/quote]

Interesting....... very interesting

[Diablo]

Well I'm glad the first post generated some great info and lots of perspectives on this. For my gig last Friday I decided to do a setup on the J in the afternoon. Rather than lift the pickups I lowered the action (which kind of did the same thing of course) and reset the intonation. With the amp gain set on full for the J it gave the same levels as the P on 9 tenths, so pretty much as close as you like, and at that setting both were showing a nice green LED input level and only when really trying with the low E would the red over level LED just flash momentarily. Previously the J would not even light the green.

I also set the master volume at 2/3rd on my Boss pedals which does raise the input, but not far enough to develop any distortion.

I did not mess about with the pup volume knobs through, I will try that at the next outing on Friday. Too hard to do it at home, my practice room is too small to get a good feel for the sound.

Must have sounded okay, the headline act bassist asked me if I'd sell him the J and amp as he loved the sound....! It certainly was not my playing that lifted up a bad rig, my gear is better than me my a long chalk.

Cheers,
Rich

[Diablo]

Just thinking out loud for voltages and levels and pup heights, I can understand that there may be "dead" areas where the strings and fields are not so happy or effective. I don't know, perhaps that is why there is such a different sound from plucking a string in/out rather than up/down.? What I suppose I should do is connect up my oscilloscope and see what the voltage signals and magnitudes are doing then mess about with setup.

Not for a few weeks though, work and hols mean not much play-time for me.

Cheers,
Rich

[DarkHeart]

I bought a Behringer AB100 instrument/amp selector for just over a tenner it allows both basses to be set at the same volume and plugged in at the same time, cracking bit of kit.