JTUK Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) IMO, you get the balance right. So, when do we get to see this product around here..? Edited June 26, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 We have been talking with Bass Direct and a couple other shops, but nothing definite yet. If you have a favorite shop, let them know you are interested in the gear... it may help get the ball rolling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 and you are working late..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Always. Just working on crossovers for the next run of ML112 cabs. There's no quitting time when you own your own company! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1340691119' post='1708060'] IMO, you get the balance right. So, when do we get to see this product around here..? [/quote] Plus one. Just right. They look very professional and I've heard they sound fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1340667661' post='1708001'] Off the musical topic, look at the iPod and how it influenced companies like Nintendo to make a minimalist white console (Wii). The Wii has been a massive massive hit. Part of it is the modern marketing and the fact it isn't an ugly massive box. [/quote] A total aside here, but everyone seems to be blind to what influenced the iPod, and many other "unique" Apple products, and it bugs me a lot, having studied product design for my undergraduate degree. If you flick through Braun's 60's product catalogues, you'll see that not all of Ive's designs are original, but very clever reinterpretations of, or at least homages to a lot of Braun's work. I wouldn't believe for a second that Ive would have gone out to copy anything, but clearly he studied a lot of Braun's work and it reads as the main if not the only influence in his design >> http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future </aside> Back on track though, Gareth is spot on about the need for some more proper thought and marketing behind the look of these cabs and the company identity, Aguilar is a very good example too - high quality products, at sensible prices with very strong branding. Those weird little PA style Thunderchild cabs could be the best thing in the world, but without considering how they look, they'll always be a geeky choice and never make it onto any big stages. I work in design and advertising these days and it's not rocket science or expensive. It doesn't take much to have someone come up with a nice logo for starters, a nice, clean, professional looking website, again, it won't break the bank either. I guess some of these products might have been a bit of an accidental success, and the brains behind them perhaps weren't prepared for it?... Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I should add, I really like the look of the Baer stuff too, and I haven't read a bad review yet! Classic, simple and robust, with nice branding - good work fella Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='eude' timestamp='1340697226' post='1708114'] A total aside here, but everyone seems to be blind to what influenced the iPod, and many other "unique" Apple products, and it bugs me a lot, having studied product design for my undergraduate degree. If you flick through Braun's 60's product catalogues, you'll see that not all of Ive's designs are original, but very clever reinterpretations of, or at least homages to a lot of Braun's work. I wouldn't believe for a second that Ive would have gone out to copy anything, but clearly he studied a lot of Braun's work and it reads as the main if not the only influence in his design >> [url="http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future"]http://gizmodo.com/3...o-apples-future[/url] </aside> Back on track though, Gareth is spot on about the need for some more proper thought and marketing behind the look of these cabs and the company identity, Aguilar is a very good example too - high quality products, at sensible prices with very strong branding. Those weird little PA style Thunderchild cabs could be the best thing in the world, but without considering how they look, they'll always be a geeky choice and never make it onto any big stages. I work in design and advertising these days and it's not rocket science or expensive. It doesn't take much to have someone come up with a nice logo for starters, a nice, clean, professional looking website, again, it won't break the bank either. I guess some of these products might have been a bit of an accidental success, and the brains behind them perhaps weren't prepared for it?... Eude [/quote] Thanks Eude! I knew someone would understand where I am coming from eventually. I have no dopubt Apple borrowed heavily from a fair few previous ideas haha! The other thing I like about Aguilar is the minimalism. Small classic fonts, nothing 'in your face', just classic yet modern approaches. I even think their pedals look fantastic, and its a pedal!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1340726507' post='1708697'] Thanks Eude! I knew someone would understand where I am coming from eventually. I have no dopubt Apple borrowed heavily from a fair few previous ideas haha! The other thing I like about Aguilar is the minimalism. Small classic fonts, nothing 'in your face', just classic yet modern approaches. I even think their pedals look fantastic, and its a pedal!!! [/quote] I think MarkBass have done a great job too. I never liked the Yellow to start off with, but it's grown on me, and it's immediately familiar because of it, more clever design... TC Electronics have also come up with a good look for their kit, unique and utilitarian, and their aggressive marketing has brought their kit on leaps and bounds in a very short space of time. Folks could learn a lot from these guys. Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='eude' timestamp='1340697226' post='1708114'] A total aside here, but everyone seems to be blind to what influenced the iPod, and many other "unique" Apple products, and it bugs me a lot, having studied product design for my undergraduate degree. If you flick through Braun's 60's product catalogues, you'll see that not all of Ive's designs are original, but very clever reinterpretations of, or at least homages to a lot of Braun's work. I wouldn't believe for a second that Ive would have gone out to copy anything, but clearly he studied a lot of Braun's work and it reads as the main if not the only influence in his design >> [url="http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future"]http://gizmodo.com/3...o-apples-future[/url] </aside> [/quote] iPod's an interesting example though because its design aesthetic contributes to clear functional limitations but people like the aesthetic enough to work within them even to the point that they don't really notice the limitations. Sounds rather familiar to the world of bass cabs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1340727610' post='1708716'] iPod's an interesting example though because its design aesthetic contributes to clear functional limitations but people like the aesthetic enough to work within them even to the point that they don't really notice the limitations. Sounds rather familiar to the world of bass cabs... [/quote] Good point mate, although in my opinion, the real functional limitations of the iPod stem from iTunes more than anything else, awful awful awful bit of software Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1340727610' post='1708716'] iPod's an interesting example though because its design aesthetic contributes to clear functional limitations but people like the aesthetic enough to work within them even to the point that they don't really notice the limitations. Sounds rather familiar to the world of bass cabs... [/quote] It is limited, but the one thing I like with Apple and the iPod and iPhone is just how SLICK it all works. Despite the fact there are more powerful mp3 players and phones out there, Apple just works right for me. The user friendliness is right. Yes, some of the more 'aesthetically pleasing' cabinets/amps WILL no doubt fall flat against a well engineered version, BUT, there is no problem in having good engineering and good aesthetics. Aguilar, again, is one of them. I have yet to find a 2x12/1x12 I like as much as the DB112/212. I've tried as much as possible, but nope, the DB cabs win so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1340691119' post='1708060'] IMO, you get the balance right. So, when do we get to see this product around here..? [/quote] Quick dealer update. It looks like Bass Direct is going to have a couple of ML112's in stock in the near future. Anyone interested should contact Mark and ask about reserving a cab. Edited June 26, 2012 by R Baer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='eude' timestamp='1340727717' post='1708722'] Good point mate, although in my opinion, the real functional limitations of the iPod stem from iTunes more than anything else, awful awful awful bit of software Eude [/quote] <From a bassist's perspective the mis-specified output capacitor that rolls off bass when used with headphones is pretty poor too, took me a while to figure out why it sounded so bad compared to my older Sony with the same headphones!> But I find the jog wheel interface or the touchscreens are terrible pieces of 'form over function' design because you can't skip through tracks without getting the device out as there is no tactile feedback. If you're visually impaired, and given the size of them this applies to anyone over the age of 50 who's not wearing reading glasses, the Apple device is really tricky to use. Again my old Sony had better a design that had more tactile feedback or what used to be called 'buttons', alongside a nifty spring-loaded 'skip' wheel. Gareth, obviously I'm not saying you're wrong as clearly the ipod suits a lot of people, but my point was that people have in many cases unconsciously adapted to make themselves suit it rather than the other way round, but that 'rightness' of the user friendliness is very far from universal! [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1340728204' post='1708730'] It is limited, but the one thing I like with Apple and the iPod and iPhone is just how SLICK it all works. Despite the fact there are more powerful mp3 players and phones out there, Apple just works right for me. The user friendliness is right. Yes, some of the more 'aesthetically pleasing' cabinets/amps WILL no doubt fall flat against a well engineered version, BUT, there is no problem in having good engineering and good aesthetics. Aguilar, again, is one of them. I have yet to find a 2x12/1x12 I like as much as the DB112/212. I've tried as much as possible, but nope, the DB cabs win so far. [/quote] Aguilar cabs have a nice aesthetic and are solidly designed though it's not 'my' sound. If I were to nitpick with the DBs, I'd say that making them rotatable so that you could optionally get the drivers up closer to your ears and take up a smaller footprint when using a 'micro' cab would be an improvement. But it's a minor quibble and I like the tolex/grille look, not a million miles away from my own build: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/161271-oh-no-another-lightweight-speaker-cabinet-build/page__view__findpost__p__1670397"]http://basschat.co.u...ost__p__1670397[/url] The shelf port on mine you could argue deteriorates from the aesthetic, but it is a better solution with higher excursion drivers and there is no getting away from that. If I were a commercial cab builder I would offer two versions of a cab, one optimised for weight/price/performance ratio for someone who just wants a high quality workhorse cab, and one with a bit more of a 'boutique' look at about £50 more. It'd perform the same but be heavier and probably require a bit more babying to keep looking pristine, but that's ok because I'd sell matching padded-tolex-type cab bags for another £60 or so! Edited June 26, 2012 by LawrenceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeL Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Great to see how much attention my little Thunderchlid cab has generated here! Now if only that attention had been [i]positive[/i] instead of [i]negative[/i]... alas, we can't have it all, can we?? There's a method behind the madness of that big PA-style horn. You see, what I'm doing is radiation pattern matching in the crossover region. Let me explain: The dispersion of a cone driver narrows as we go up in frequency, and big cones can be quite beamy at high frequencies (case in point: The on-axis icepick effect of many guitar cabs). So I'm crossing over to a 90-degree constant-directivity horn at the frequency where the woofer's radiation pattern has narrowed to roughly 90 degrees. If I do this well, you won't be able to hear any transition in the crossover region. If I do it poorly, than we have a crappy-sounding cab that's ugly too. Radiation pattern matching in the crossover region is hardly a new concept, people have been doing it in PA cabs for decades, and I was doing it in the home audio market for years before getting into bass cabs. The advantage is that it makes the sound more uniform throughout the audience area. One hopes that said relatively uniform sound is pleasing rather than painful, of course, and that's where crossover design plays a big role (to be more specific, that's where [i]equalization[/i] plays a big role, equalization being one of the jobs of the crossover). My hope is to broaden the choices open to bass players, and along the way I've been fortunate enough to have a backlog of orders ever since I launched my first bass cab in 2010. Bass players have treated me very well. Edited September 30, 2012 by DukeL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='DukeL' timestamp='1348985655' post='1820309'] Great to see how much attention my little Thunderchlid cab has generated here! Now if only that attention had been [i]positive[/i] instead of [i]negative[/i]... alas, we can't have it all, can we?? There's a method behind the madness of that big PA-style horn. You see, what I'm doing is radiation pattern matching in the crossover region. Let me explain: The dispersion of a cone driver narrows as we go up in frequency, and big cones can be quite beamy at high frequencies (case in point: The on-axis icepick effect of many guitar cabs). So I'm crossing over to a 90-degree constant-directivity horn at the frequency where the woofer's radiation pattern has narrowed to roughly 90 degrees. If I do this well, you won't be able to hear any transition in the crossover region. If I do it poorly, than we have a crappy-sounding cab that's ugly too. Radiation pattern matching in the crossover region is hardly a new concept, people have been doing it in PA cabs for decades, and I was doing it in the home audio market for years before getting into bass cabs. The advantage is that it makes the sound more uniform throughout the audience area. One hopes that said relatively uniform sound is pleasing rather than painful, of course, and that's where crossover design plays a big role (to be more specific, that's where [i]equalization[/i] plays a big role, equalization being one of the jobs of the crossover). My hope is to broaden the choices open to bass players, and along the way I've been Fortunate enough to have a backlog of orders ever since I launched my first bass cab in 2010. Bass players have treated me very well. [/quote] Nice to see you over here Duke...welcome! The new 2x12 looks fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 +1 to smaller manufacturers chipping in on this forum. The opportunity to chew the fat with the players (like Fender's reps did in the 50s) far outweighs any concerns about product-pushing imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeL Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348999604' post='1820426'] Nice to see you over here Duke...welcome! The new 2x12 looks fantastic. [/quote] Thank you, Musicman20! For some reason, your avatar makes me want to take evasive action... [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1349007856' post='1820551'] +1 to smaller manufacturers chipping in on this forum. The opportunity to chew the fat with the players (like Fender's reps did in the 50s) far outweighs any concerns about product-pushing imo. [/quote] Thank you! I don't think I'm a pushy salesman type, but one seldom knows how one comes across until it's too late, so please thump me on the head if I start to go too far. Edited September 30, 2012 by DukeL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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