1976fenderhead Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) I recently bought a Blowtorch and started noticing some weird phasing strongest between the 3rd and 5th fret on all strings but probably strongest on the A string. It kicks in right after I hit a note and say 1/4 second after I hit it, it 'cancels' out the strength of the fuzz for just a fraction of a second... then the phase cycle comes back again but this time slowly if I sustain the note. It doesn't kill the effect or anything, it's just like a quick phase cycle that disturbs the definition of the effect... I then tried the Bass Microsynth with only the fuzz on and noticed it happening too, but much less noticeable... It seems like a setup issue, as if I don't press the strings properly, that 'phase cycle' coincides with the buzzing starting. What I don't understand is, even if there's NO buzzing, the 'phasing' still happens just the same. Any ideas what's causing this and how to fix it? I'm quite happy with my setup and like to have a tiny bit of buzz in exchange for low action so it's annoying if that doesn't work with this pedal... I'll post a sample on Soundcloud and link to it soon. Edited April 28, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) [url="http://soundcloud.com/1976fenderhead/fuzz-phasing-issue"]http://soundcloud.com/1976fenderhead/fuzz-phasing-issue[/url] A string only, I start clean 5th fret down to open string, then Blowtorch on, same thing. Then I start going up the fretboard and you'll notice the phasing kicks in progressively later the highest I go... Any ideas on how to tame this? Edited April 28, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxxwj Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure that's natural, I get that same kind of sound from my Bass Big Muff. Right after I play a note, the fuzz goes away somewhat, and then it comes back as I sustain the note. I can't really tell if anything's happening on your samples, sorry.. Edited April 28, 2012 by lxxwj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Hmm, sounds kind of similiar to an impedance mismatch, a sort of garting effect at the start of the note, but as far as I'm aware the Blowtorch is fine with actives. My only other thought is intonation really, check your intonation is perfect on every fret. Another thought if it's 5'th fret (and sorry if it's a very simple thing and i'm condascending you), but when you play 5'th are you muting the next open string? Id an open string is the same pitch it'll resonate, that could cause some nasty phasing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 I also tried it with my passive Squire which has a terrible setup and it doesn't seem to be connected to fret buzz... It's less noticeable on the Squier though it buzzes all over the place. My main bass is a MIA Fender Jazz Deluxe btw (active)... there really seems to be some mismatch going on... When I play with my SFX Micro Fuzz or Bass Microsynth that issue is barely there, I can only hear it now because I'm looking for it but I never noticed it before and it's not a problem in the slightest, also with the T-Rex Bass Juice it's not there at all that I can hear it, however with the Blowtorch it's really a problem, if I alternate quickly between 3rd and 4th fret on the A string sometimes the 4th fret gets kind of cancelled out, like in a mix it would just disappear... When you actually feel the air from the speakers you can feel it vanishing there for a 1/4 second... I'm afraid the Blowtorch will have to go back as it just doesn't seem to agree with my bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='lxxwj' timestamp='1335624244' post='1633887'] I can't really tell if anything's happening on your samples, sorry.. [/quote] You can even see on the wave how there's a sharp decrease in volume immediately after the attack, but straight away it increases back again to a normal level. On the long notes, you can see an undulation in volume on the sustain, however the lowest point is always right after the attack, it never really goes back to being that quiet despite the phasing moving up and down... Doesn't really make sense when the quietest point of the note is immediately after the attack does it... Edited April 28, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Did you ever solve this? Ironically I had never experienced anything like it before, but I am currently borrowing a passive OLP Singray copy and have EXACTLY the same issue (though only really noticeable above the 9th fret). I can't find a cause for it and tried about everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) [quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1336046460' post='1639950'] Did you ever solve this? Ironically I had never experienced anything like it before, but I am currently borrowing a passive OLP Singray copy and have EXACTLY the same issue (though only really noticeable above the 9th fret). I can't find a cause for it and tried about everything. [/quote] I still haven't. I tried raising and lowering pickup height and I tried a few tests to isolate the problem being in the nut. I also checked that intonation was perfect, played with different cables, power supplies, plugged to amp or to computer, flat/non-flat EQ, different pickup combinations... it's always there. I've noticed though, that the problem is on all my 3 basses but it's not noticeable clean, only with some effects, and at different notes on each bass: On both my Fender and fretless Warwick the phasing is stronger on the A string, especially open string and up to 5th fret. On my Squier the A string is totally fine and the D string is the problematic one. I also notice the problem is extreme to the point of nearly silencing the notes on my fingerboards' dead spots (around the 8th fret on the G string) so it seems like a frequency canceling issue to do with each bass's body. What's interesting is that some pedals react badly to it, others are totally fine: Terrible for the MXR Blowtorch, barely noticeable with the fuzz on the EHX BMS and SFX Micro Fuzz, T-Rex Bass Juice is fine... Terrible for the MXR BOD and the octave in the EHX BMS (phasing makes tracking go nuts), but the octaver in the M5 has no problems at all! I'm starting to think that's just present on every bass but you can only tell with some effects and that's just how it is? I guess some pedals will act more on certain frequencies that coincide with the frequencies at which the bass's body vibrates, and that's why the problem is extreme on the 2 or 3 frets around the dead spot? Truth is, I had never noticed this being a problem until I got the Blowtorch, the BOD and the El Grande (though I didn't notice the phasing issue with the El Grande, it just sounded like it was randomly cancelling frequencies all over the fretboard top to bottom... Something to do with MXR? Edited May 3, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Could it have anything to do with the cable from the bass to the pedal (or the socket on the bass)? Might be the + & - are getting swapped somewhere, though I'm not sure if this would be an issue. Other thing I can suggest is backing the vol off a little on the bass & see if that changes things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1336048614' post='1639994'] Could it have anything to do with the cable from the bass to the pedal (or the socket on the bass)? Might be the + & - are getting swapped somewhere, though I'm not sure if this would be an issue. Other thing I can suggest is backing the vol off a little on the bass & see if that changes things. [/quote] It's on all my basses and different cables (some I made, some I bought)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 That rules that one out then. I think it's gonna be a process of elimination. Are you using it just Bass > Blowtorch > Amp or is there anything else in the line (such as bypassed fx)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I tried the most problematic pedals (BOD and Blowtorch) both in a chain and each of them alone, with 2 different power supplies and different cables, same every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 'tis most strange. Have you tried a different instrument (guitar or keyboard) through the fx to see if you get the same? Do you get it if you play elsewhere or just in your house (might be your lekky supply)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Ha now that is interesting... Haven't tried those problem effects outside the house as I returned them already... I have a Red Ripper arriving tomorrow and have 2 gigs on the weekend so if that pedal is also a problem (hope not, geez) I'll soundcheck it and see. Will try to see if I notice anything also from the BMS... No other electric instruments in the house so haven't tried anything besides my 3 basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Worth having a try. Just re reading things & having another listen. Have you tried backing the bass's volume off a bit? Might be too hot a signal (though it would be odd to be all 3 instruments. Maybe it's the F word ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'm certain my experience with this is the bass. I don't recall ever hearing anything like it with the Roscoe so assume its the passive MM pickup/circuit in this bass. I don't have another bass to try it with but sure I'd of noticed it! It seems the pre on mine has been changed from the standard Vol/Vol/Tone set up to be Vol/Blend/Tone (though if I'm honest it sounds like Vole and 2 identical tone controls!) so wonder if it has something to do move the two rows of pole pieces out of phase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Most Jazz basses have a point on the neck (roughly 4th or 5th fret) where the fundamental dies away really quickly, leaving you with only the harmonics - this might explain some of what's happening. I was chatting to a luthier about this a while ago - it's something to do with the mass of the headstock. He suggested clamping a heavy piece of wood to the back of the headstock to increase its mass, and thereby allowing ALL of the note to sound properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1336069544' post='1640534'] Most Jazz basses have a point on the neck (roughly 4th or 5th fret) where the fundamental dies away really quickly, leaving you with only the harmonics - this might explain some of what's happening. I was chatting to a luthier about this a while ago - it's something to do with the mass of the headstock. He suggested clamping a heavy piece of wood to the back of the headstock to increase its mass, and thereby allowing ALL of the note to sound properly. [/quote] Yes, on my bass it's the G string on the 8th fret, I think that's usually where it is for this model. But this phasing thing I get mostly on the A string... But yeah, any fuzz or tracking just disappears on that dead spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 just listened to the samples, you're overloading the input stage of the pedal it's nothing to do with the bass. It's the transistor losing bias from overloading and creaping back in when it regains it. Does it do it if you turn the gain down? As to why its strongest on those frets my guess is thats a particular frequency thats coming through very strong on the bass and accented by the pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) [quote name='umph' timestamp='1336081578' post='1640778'] just listened to the samples, you're overloading the input stage of the pedal it's nothing to do with the bass. It's the transistor losing bias from overloading and creaping back in when it regains it. Does it do it if you turn the gain down? As to why its strongest on those frets my guess is thats a particular frequency thats coming through very strong on the bass and accented by the pedal. [/quote] Very good answer, thank you. I can't test it with less gain anymore because I sent the pedal back, but I did those with gain at 3 o'clock, and that's how I usually played because I liked that setting, so quite high. I do remember though that with Torch off it was less noticeable but still there (in the recording Torch is on). Could it be too much volume coming from the bass, so even with low gain on the pedal it was still being overloaded? And do you reckon that would explain the continuing phase effect after the initial pinch? Edited May 3, 2012 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 [quote name='umph' timestamp='1336081578' post='1640778'] just listened to the samples, you're overloading the input stage of the pedal it's nothing to do with the bass. It's the transistor losing bias from overloading and creaping back in when it regains it. Does it do it if you turn the gain down? As to why its strongest on those frets my guess is thats a particular frequency thats coming through very strong on the bass and accented by the pedal. [/quote] That's an interesting thought! I'll try that with my stuff too.... I think my situation may be slightly different, though it stands out more with fuzz tones (Freqbox most, then Mastotron), I'm pretty sure I can hear it on clean as well like a very subtle phasing. I assume the high harmonics of the fuzz etc make it more audible. Going to try changing a few settings now though... That said, this is a passive bass and I never heard it with my 18v active. 1976fenderhead - if this makes a difference for you then let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 [quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1336082307' post='1640792'] 1976fenderhead - if this makes a difference for you then let me know! [/quote] Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 [quote name='1976fenderhead' timestamp='1336082129' post='1640787'] Very good answer, thank you. I can't test it with less gain anymore because I sent the pedal back, but I did those with gain at 3 o'clock, and that's how I usually played because I liked that setting, so quite high. I do remember though that with Torch off it was less noticeable but still there (in the recording Torch is on). Could it be too much volume coming from the bass, so even with low gain on the pedal it was still being overloaded? And do you reckon that would explain the continuing phase effect after the initial pinch? [/quote] To much volume from the the bass would overload it and make the pedal sound a bit pap. Doesn't matter if it's active or not sometimes passive basses can be hotter than active etc. Impedance shouldn't be an issue with that pedal. Had a listen again, theres no phase issues here, it's all pure class A with no mixing. What you hear after you let the note decay a bit is where the signal drops down a bit and it starts being able to amplify it normally without being absolutely driven into oblivion. It sounds less synthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.