Advice wanted on replacement/upgrade parts for my '98 Thumb!

[Bassdude BE]

Hi,
since last week i'm the happy owner of a very well made '98 Bubinga Thumb BO.
I already cleaned the entire neck and body,replaced some cables of the pre-amp/pick-up's, polished the frets ,oiled the neck and managed to achieve a (for me) perfect set-up on the bass.

The playability and tone are now amazing and i've already played untill my fingers bled the last few days as the inspiration just kept coming when playing my thumb
while i was sitting down.

But there lies the problem: when i sit down i place the curve of the thumb on my right leg and the neck then sits comfortably in front of my left arm/hand,
but when standing up however the straplocks (my thumb has the recessed ones) don't hold (as they're probably worn out) and the bass doesn't position nicely and/or doesn't feel right as all of my straps seem to be too long/too thin/don't hold well in place.

And neck dive really becomes an issue as well... :roll:

The only solution i found so far that actually works is when i lock both ends of the strap to the upper horn and wrap this around my neck and shoulder, but when i do that all the weight is concentrated at the upper straplock and i'm afraid it might break...


So i decided to try some small hardware changes/upgrades and see if i can solve this problem as i would love to use this bas live as well, wich i can't do unless i handle the balance/position problem.

I have several possible (partial) solutions in mind and therefore wanted to ask you guys some advice on what is the best choice for each individual replacement part.





[u]First: Tuners[/u]

I was thinking about replacing the tuners as the old ones are a bit worn out anyway and a leightweight alternative might also help with the neck balance.

so, is there a big difference in weight between a brand new set of warwick tuners and the Hipshot ultralites everybody is so positive about?

To be honest i can't see myself spending 200Euro's for a set of 4 tuners
(warwick webshop price) as i will need to buy a lot of other parts as well,
so i looked around a bit and i found a German shop where i can order them for half the price (just 24,72Euro a piece),
but now i was wondering if this is the same type and if they will fit my '98 thumb... :?:

[i]Link to cheap Hipshot ultralites i was planning to buy:[/i]
[url="http://www.banzaimusic.com/Hipshot-20650-B-R.html"]Hipshot 20650-B-R :: Hipshot :: Tuners :: Hardware :: Guitar and Bass Parts :: Musical Parts :: Banzai Music[/url]
[url="http://www.banzaimusic.com/Hipshot-20650-B-L.html"]Hipshot 20650-B-L :: Hipshot :: Tuners :: Hardware :: Guitar and Bass Parts :: Musical Parts :: Banzai Music[/url]

please advise!






EDIT: [u]Second: Strap locks[/u]
I already ordered a new set of Dunop flush mount straplocks!





[u]Third: Strap[/u]

The choice of strap is very important for holding the thumb in the right place i think as i already own a wide padded neoprene strap (7.5cm wide) wich is decent quality already and it doesn't work with the thumb as i can't raise the bass high enough and/or hold the neck in the right position.

So i looked around the forums and found some thumb owners that vote for a wide leather strap, a double strap ,a Comfort Strapp™ and several others for the Thumb bass.

The thumb bass is the first bass for me that has such a small body so i already noticed i will probably have to wear it higher up the belly. (wich i can't do with my older straps as they are all much too long or unstable)

So i think it might be very helpfull for me to hear some advice from the more expierienced thumb players in here on which of the straps shown below is best for a comfortable position a little higher up the belly AND will help solving the neck dive problem.

The 3 options i had in mind were:


1. Comfort Strapp™ Pro Bass Long 38"-45" (96 - 114cm)
link: [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Comfort_Strapps.html"]Accessories at Bass Direct: Comfort Strapps, Guitar and Bass Straps:: Basses Guitars[/url]



2. Planet Waves 50DARE000 Guitar Strap - new specially designed strap allows you to spread the weight over both shoulders.

Looks like this might be a good solution for the neck dive, anybody tried one of these:?:

link: [url="http://www.thomann.de/be/planet_waves_50dare000_gitarrengurt.htm"]PLANET WAVES 50DARE000 GUITARSTRAP - Thomann Belgian Cyberstore[/url]



3. 11 cm wide padded leather strap (but i'm a bit scared it might be too long)
link: [url="http://www.thomann.de/be/minotaur_used_look_bass_strap.htm"]MINOTAUR USED LOOK BASS STRAP BR - Thomann Belgian Cyberstore[/url]



I could really use some advice on the strap as all my former basses were perfectly balanced...:roll:

I need a good positioning as i play alot of fast lines all over the neck and therefore need good acces to all upper and lower frets.

Comfort is also an important factor as i sometimes rehearse twice in one day in the weekends now and have to be able to stand up with the bass for 4-6 hours without being in agonizing pain...:|


Help from other Thumb users will be rewarded with much gratitude!

Edited July 7, 2011 by Bassdude BE

[Bassdude BE]

[i][b]Originally Posted by schlobodan

as for the strap locks they actually ARE DUNLOP recessed strap locks.
Normally they work very well.

simply buy a new set maybe there is some dirt that prevents the thing from working properly[/b][/i]

NICE! Thanks man!
I guess that in this case the straplocks obviously have been used a g*d*mn lot over the last 14 years and especially the one at the side of the neck looks really worn out, so better safe than sorry i guess...

Any idea if the tuners i posted are right the ones?

I'd really love to take this baby on stage rather than just use it as a studio bass,
so if any of you play live with the thumb maybe you can share some wisdom about how you can make the "thumb life" a litlle easyer on stage??...



Thanks!

Edited July 7, 2011 by Bassdude BE

[Bassdude BE]

Nevermind the tuner part,

i just ordered these Gotoh GB-350 tuners as they are even lighter than the Hipshot 3/8 ultralites and when i searched the forum i've read somewehere that they will fit a Thumb just as good as the hipshots as well...

gotoh GB-350 tuners (35-40grams a piece) :
[url="http://www.soundland.de/catalog/mechaniken/gotoh-gb-350-bassmechanik-p-257893.html"]Gotoh GB-350 Bassmechanik[/url]

Also i ordered an extra straplock so i can raise the straplock at the bridge a little for better balance.




Now i just have to continue the search for the best strap for my thumb... any ideas?

[Bassdude BE]

The Dunlop MSS2-4 looks like it could be a good strap for the thumb, anyone tried that one yet?
it is very expensive tho, 75Euro's for a strap... :shock:


[url="http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/Gitarren--Bässe--Amps/Gitarrengurte/Ledergurte/Levys-MSS-24-BLK--16439.html?refID=preisroboter.de"]http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/Gitarren--B...preisroboter.de[/url]


or might it's slightly cheaper and less wide brother do as well?
Dunlop MSS3 (39Euro): [url="http://www.thomann.de/be/levys_mss3_blk_gitarrengurt.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/be/levys_mss3_blk_gitarrengurt.htm[/url]

[BassBod]

Sorry to be the voice of doom..but I had a lovely 98 Thumb (may even be the same one, if you got it here). There was really no cure for the neck dive/weight issue..its part and parcel of the design. A good wide strap, with a rough suede backing helps a lot, but I could never get comfortable with it.

Hope you have better luck!

[mart]

[quote name='Bassdude BE' post='1295566' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:57 AM']...i just ordered these Gotoh GB-350 tuners as they are even lighter than the Hipshot 3/8 ultralites and when i searched the forum i've read somewehere that they will fit a Thumb just as good as the hipshots as well...

gotoh GB-350 tuners (35-40grams a piece) :
[url="http://www.soundland.de/catalog/mechaniken/gotoh-gb-350-bassmechanik-p-257893.html"]Gotoh GB-350 Bassmechanik[/url]
...[/quote]
I'd love to know how you get on with those. From my experience, your thumb's tuning pegs probably weigh about 65g each. Hipshot, and every other official source, say the ultralites weigh 50g. But folk on the Warwick forum that have bought them and weighed them claim that they are 40-45g each. If you've found ones that are even lighter, that's great.

My thumb has newer Warwick tuners which are more like 55g each, so I figured that changing to ultralites, if they are as light as some people claim, would be equivalent to removing one of the tuning pegs (since it's a 4-string). Removing one tuning peg didn't cost £200 (or whatever ultralites cost these days) so I tried it to see how the balance changed. And, as far as I could tell, the balance was almost exactly the same as before.

[quote name='BassBod' post='1295603' date='Jul 7 2011, 07:50 AM']Sorry to be the voice of doom..but I had a lovely 98 Thumb (may even be the same one, if you got it here). There was really no cure for the neck dive/weight issue..its part and parcel of the design. A good wide strap, with a rough suede backing helps a lot, but I could never get comfortable with it.
...[/quote]
Unfortunately, I think this is probably true. I don't think a good strap can ever completely compensate for a badly balanced bass - it will always be a little uncomfortable. Personally, I can live with the Thumb balance, but I do sometime think about modding it to be headless! (If I recall, someone has done this - google and you'll find tips. But it seems a scary thing to do to an expensive bass).

[BassBod]

From memory, it was first designed to be headless...and then re-designed with a headstock. I know which version I'd play!

[mart]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1296002' date='Jul 7 2011, 02:12 PM']From memory, it was first designed to be headless...and then re-designed with a headstock. I know which version I'd play![/quote]

Yes, I believe that is the case. It probably has kept its appeal better as a result of having a head (how many bands do you see these days with a headless bass?), but I think they should have tweaked the body more to sort the balance out. I'd have thought they would only have needed to stretch the top horn a little to make a huge difference.

[Bassdude BE]

Ok, thanks for the feedback guys,
i too believe that only a strap or lighter tuners can't solve the problem ,
but i hope a combination of many small changes (lightweight tuners, relocate the straplocks and a very good strap) might help to get the neck in a comfortable position when standing.

I've read some reviews of people who had good results combining all these solutions, so i hope it works for me,otherwise this will become a very expensive project ...

Btw,
The Gotoh tuners are only 35-39grams each, while my current (old Warwick) tuners weigh around 60grams each, so there should be a noticable change in weight there.

kind regards,
D.

[mart]

[quote name='Bassdude BE' post='1296178' date='Jul 7 2011, 05:19 PM']Ok, thanks for the feedback guys,
i too believe that only a strap or lighter tuners can't solve the problem ,
but i hope a combination of many small changes (lightweight tuners, relocate the straplocks and a very good strap) might help to get the neck in a comfortable position when standing.

I've read some reviews of people who had good results combining all these solutions, so i hope it works for me,otherwise this will become a very expensive project ...

Btw,
The Gotoh tuners are only 35-39grams each, while my current (old Warwick) tuners weigh around 60grams each, so there should be a noticable change in weight there.

kind regards,
D.[/quote]

Yep, if you have older Warwick tuners, then you have more to gain by switching to lighter tuners (actually I suppose I mean you have "more to lose" ).

Relocating the strap buttons is more risky. The most effective way would be to move the top-horn straplock towards the headstock, ideally about 3 inches over from where it currently is. Unfortunately the top-horn is 3 inches too short for that!

So you have to move the bottom button instead. On the Warwick forum Eberbachl tried this on his Thumb, but reckoned it wasn't worth it. On the other hand, Golem is a big fan of moving buttons around. In any case most people agree that you need to move the bottom button [i]towards[/i] the jack socket (not away from it, like some people think). I think you need to picture the bass in the position you'd like it to stay in, and then move the bottom button to the right, i.e. nearer the neck. You'll probably find that this means moving it towards the socket.

Sadly you'll often read of people saying XXX worked perfectly and made a huge difference, but when you look into the physics you'll find their claims are impossible. And you'll often then find them posting 6 months later complaining about the neck-dive, showing that their "perfect" solution wasn't actually any good at all!

Edited July 7, 2011 by mart

[LukeFRC]

...buy a streamer stage one?

[Bassdude BE]

[quote name='mart' post='1296499' date='Jul 7 2011, 10:38 PM']Yep, if you have older Warwick tuners, then you have more to gain by switching to lighter tuners (actually I suppose I mean you have "more to lose" ).

Relocating the strap buttons is more risky. The most effective way would be to move the top-horn straplock towards the headstock, ideally about 3 inches over from where it currently is. Unfortunately the top-horn is 3 inches too short for that!

So you have to move the bottom button instead. On the Warwick forum Eberbachl tried this on his Thumb, but reckoned it wasn't worth it. On the other hand, Golem is a big fan of moving buttons around. In any case most people agree that you need to move the bottom button [i]towards[/i] the jack socket (not away from it, like some people think). I think you need to picture the bass in the position you'd like it to stay in, and then move the bottom button to the right, i.e. nearer the neck. You'll probably find that this means moving it towards the socket.

Sadly you'll often read of people saying XXX worked perfectly and made a huge difference, but when you look into the physics you'll find their claims are impossible. And you'll often then find them posting 6 months later complaining about the neck-dive, showing that their "perfect" solution wasn't actually any good at all![/quote]


Thanks for the heads up mate, i was just about to start drilling some holes in that beautiful bubinga body...
instead i'm planning to order one of these:

[url="http://www.slapring.com/de/shop/produktinfos/slapstrap.php"]http://www.slapring.com/de/shop/produktinfos/slapstrap.php[/url]

a lot of warwick players swear by them and i think it should reduce the neck dive problem at least a bit as it sticks into its place once you strap it on.
100Euro for a strap is quite a lot , but it looks like one of the best straps i've ever seen and everyone who has them seems to be crazy about them, so i might give them a shot i think.

@LukeFRC: sorry mate, i love the tone of wenge and bubinga & the sound of the streamer is just not growly/low mid enough for me...

Edited July 8, 2011 by Bassdude BE

[LukeFRC]

hehhe I know, thumbs sound AMAZING

[Bassdude BE]

BTW,
Do you have any idea how short these Minotaur straps can go?
and do they have models with a suede back for more grip?


i'd like a strap that goes from +-91cm to +-132cm and a suede back for more grip to reduce the neck dive.

kind regards,
D.

PS: it looks like there hasn't been any action in the slaptrap site for a long time (and his ebay shop is offline since 2009) ,
so i'm afraid they might be out of business.. it's a pitty really...

[Lfalex v1.1]

I own 3 Warwicks;

'97 Streamer LX6
'97 Fortress MasterMan5
'02 Infinity SN4

The Infinity is similar to the Thumb in some respects, but has a longer/higher top horn which aids balance a bit
The Streamer weighs a ton, and the neck's heavy, too, being Wenge and LARGE.

In both cases, I tried all sorts of straps, and ultimately modified a pair to suit the basses better and address their respective problems.

The Streamer has a 55mm wide padded leather strap with a cloth backing which grips [i]very[/i] well. The other part of the deal is that I wear it only 80 cm long, which holds the bass tighter to my body, stopping it from misbehaving.

The Infinity has a longer strap- if I strap it on too tight, it seems to kill some of the resonance in the sound. I have padded a leather strap myself- cut some 10mm thick foam rubber to size and superglue it to the back of the strap. You'll need to "score" the foam widthways across the strap or it won't curve neatly over your shoulder. This works well, too.

The Fortress has no balance issues, but I still use the "Streamer-Strap" with it.

BTW, I use a Planet Waves woven nylon strap on the Jazzes, and a Comfort Strapp on the rest, except for The Streamline, which bounces around too much and has another, different Planet Waves nylon item..

It's important to match the strap to the bass to you. I hope I'm not alone in using different straps for different basses.

[Bassdude BE]

Thanks bud,
i heard a lot of good things about the Levys MSS2-4 strap (11cm wide, garmented leather back,36"-52") from other thumb owners, so i decided to try that one.

link: [url="http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/GitarrenBaesseAmps/Gitarrengurte/Ledergurte/Levy's-MSS-24-BLK--16439.html"]http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/GitarrenBae...BLK--16439.html[/url]

That one should fit the thumb very well , if not i'll make sure i'll try some of the other sugestions you described.

thanks again,
kind regards,
Don.