Upgrading a cheap bass

[mentalextra]

Hi, as a newbie can someone give me an idea of what would give the most cost effective improvement in sound and playability to a "value" bass guitar. I know there are many youtube videos showing upgrading Fender's etc, but what if your guitar is not one of the big hitters and does not have quality components in the first place. If I took a £100 bass and swapped out the pick ups, bridge and machine heads would it be cost effective. There are a few parts/accessory suppliers that offer components at what I think is reasonable costs. But, where to start?

Any ideas?

[BOD2]

A lot of people ask this question.

Is it cost effective ? Probably not. You'd need to add up the cost of "good" hardware to see how much it would all cost. It won't make the bass much more desirable afterwards to a potential buyer - it's still a "cheap" bass but with fancy hardware so it's not a good idea if you plan on selling it.

Is it worthwhile ? Maybe. If the bass plays well to begin with but is just let down by it's sound then changing the hardware might fix the sound while retaining the playability. But if it doesn't play well to begin with then it will still play badly afterwards. You need a good playing neck to make this worth considering.

Upgrading a bass is a good learning experience and can be good fun too (just look around here to see that everyone is doing it). But it's also quiet addictive and you can end up replacing EVERYTHING which doesn't usually end up being cost effective.

But it's your money and time so only you can answer if it's a good idea for you to do. Just don't expect to end up with a valuable, sellable bass at the end of the process.

[Jondeeman]

It depends what you want...

If you're looking to upgrade the bass then move on to a new instrument in a couple of months, save your cash and buy a better bass. You'll never get the money that you put in, back out. If you're looking to make a lacklustre instrument sound better at relatively low cost, then go ahead. You'll learn a lot about the instrument you're playing very quickly and make it sound better as well.

First step would to bet yourself informed as to what is available and what it could / would do for the instrument you have. If you have a Fender bass (you don't say) then look here:

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fender-Bass-Manual-Maintain-Guitar/dp/1844258173/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306849884&sr=1-1"]Haynes Manual[/url]

[Truckstop]

The idea behind modding a bass is to make it something that you, specifically, want to play. Unless you know what you want out of an instrument, I wouldnt bother.
Only recently, I've discovered that I want a Jazz bass with a much wider tonal spectrum. So I'm swapping out the Pre-amp for a John East Retro to try to acheive that. It's not just aimless tinkering, I have a goal in mind.
If you're trying to make this bass sound nicer for you, before spending money, make sure you actually want to play it!

Anyway, personally, I think that pick-ups change the overall sound of a bass more than anything else does.
As for playability, all you can change really is the neck. If you've got a Precision neck, but prefer the shape of a Jazz neck, swap it. Then it'll be nicer for you to play, you might play better and then you won't need to worry about changing the electrics. Perhaps!

Truckstop

[gary mac]

It's worth it if you enjoy tinkering and you are happy to use the exercise as an opportunity to learn more about your instrument. You will hopefully gain an understanding of the electronics, how to solder, how it all goes together, how to set it up to suit you.

You might even end up with a very playable instrument.

I recently upgraded a cheapest of the cheap squier affinity p bass that turned out really well and is now a pleasure to play. There's a thread about it in the Build diaries section if you are interested.

You may well turn a profit, you may not but ultimately it's worth it for the experience, assuming you are not a complete disaster area around tools/soldering irons etc

[Muzz]

Well, I've become addicted to this route, ever since I got an SX for about £80, then put a £80 MM neck on it, a £25 bridge, and it turned out to be a better player than my US P-Basses. Eventually I put a pair of Wizard pickups in it, and now it's done, and it's my main bass - the Ray, the US Jazzes, etc, all take second place. The P-Basses got sold...

Next project is my £65 Ryder P, which will be getting another neck and a Wizard Thumper (or possibly two), and I have high hopes of this one, too.

If you're looking to get back money you put in, then you probably won't get that back, though if you part it out you'll probably get 75% of what you've spent. Which, unless you're very lucky, is more than you can say for any US Fender, Musicman, Overwater, Alembic, etc, etc...

If, however, you're looking to try out some new kit for very little cash outlay (and that can be done in stages), then it's a good route. Plus you'll have something no-one else has got...

IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc...

Edited May 31, 2011 by Muzz

[neepheid]

Modding's fun, but it's not for profit. You put all the fancy pants parts you like in a budget bass and it's still a budget bass. That's how the market will see it. You will struggle to get anything like the money you paid out for the parts, and don't forget the time it takes to scutter about with the bass - time is money but don't expect to get any return on that either.

Did I mention it's a lot of fun and can bring one great satisfaction to create out of something fairly inexpensive an instrument that punches well above its weight?

But it's still a mug's game, for all that.

[Beedster]

I bought a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar (P/J), changed the PUPs, bridge and tuners, and I now have a bass that plays and sounds like a £750 bass but which in total cost me under £450. To my mind it also has the best of both Precision and Jazz basses tone-wise but on a very lightweight and small-bodied bass. In short, it's a bass that suits me perfectly but which I'd not be able to buy off the peg. I'd say that if you have an instrument that is half decent to start with - which is VERY important - and you know both what you want from a bass and what you're doing in terms of equipment selection, modding a cheap bass can be a very economic route to getting a decent bespoke instrument.

Good luck, and enjoy it!

[Beedster]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1251613' date='May 31 2011, 03:14 PM']I bought a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar (P/J), changed the PUPs, bridge and tuners, and I now have a bass that plays and sounds like a £750 bass but which in total cost me under £450. To my mind it also has the best of both Precision and Jazz basses tone-wise but on a very lightweight and small-bodied bass. In short, it's a bass that suits me perfectly but which I'd not be able to buy off the peg. I'd say that if you have an instrument that is half decent to start with - which is VERY important - and you know both what you want from a bass and what you're doing in terms of equipment selection, modding a cheap bass can be a very economic route to getting a decent bespoke instrument.

Good luck, and enjoy it![/quote]

I should add that it's a good idea to keep all of the original components so that you can return the bass to stock if you ever decide to sell it. That way you can either use those components on another bass or sell them separately, which is likely better for you financially.

[mentalextra]

Great. Thanks for the help and advice. I must say that I am not in it for profit. Just the fun side really. I understand with pickups you get what you pay for. But, the bridge looks to be a very different item. Genuine Fender Jazz bridges dont appear to look a lot different from the hardware on cheapy copies, just a bent piece of steel screwed to the body. Would I be right in thinking that the more "mass" or substance to the bridge the better.

Thanks again for the great advice

[Muzz]

Tell you what, buy a brand new Stingray, or an Alembic, or an Overwater, try and sell it in a short while, and let me know about mug's games...

Having said that, there's a really nice US Jazz on here for £475, so that's a really good deal. If you're buying...

Modding can be a very effective way of finding out what you want from a bass if, as has been said before, you've an idea where you're starting from, and where you'd like to be. The learned opinion on here can help with that, too. If you find none of the mods works for you, the key to modded basses, if you're selling, is to part out. If I sold my SX project bass parted out, I'd get 80% of what I paid for the bits. The key bit of this is I'd be losing about £60. Pretty cost-effective, I'd say.

Buying and selling basses is also fun, but it's not for profit... Well, it's a buyers market at the moment (see the Jazz above, plus Warwick prices generally, etc, etc) so you can buy cheap, but don't expect to sell dear for a good while yet. Which means you might be stuck with something you didn't get on with, which has cost you several hundred £s.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='gary mac' post='1251595' date='May 31 2011, 03:00 PM']It's worth it if you enjoy tinkering and you are happy to use the exercise as an opportunity to learn more about your instrument. You will hopefully gain an understanding of the electronics, how to solder, how it all goes together, how to set it up to suit you.

You might even end up with a very playable instrument.

I recently upgraded a cheapest of the cheap squier affinity p bass that turned out really well and is now a pleasure to play. There's a thread about it in the Build diaries section if you are interested.

You may well turn a profit, you may not but ultimately it's worth it for the experience, assuming you are not a complete disaster area around tools/soldering irons etc [/quote]

Yeah, I had already seen this. Very interesting. Its difficult to see the difference in the machine heads though.

[Muzz]

[quote name='mentalextra' post='1251644' date='May 31 2011, 03:37 PM']Great. Thanks for the help and advice. I must say that I am not in it for profit. Just the fun side really. I understand with pickups you get what you pay for. But, the bridge looks to be a very different item. Genuine Fender Jazz bridges dont appear to look a lot different from the hardware on cheapy copies, just a bent piece of steel screwed to the body. Would I be right in thinking that the more "mass" or substance to the bridge the better.

Thanks again for the great advice[/quote]

On the bridges, the Gotoh 201 is a really good (and cheap) alternative to the standard Fender offering - it's a more solid bridge, and although there's been endless discussion about high-mass bridges and their benefits (have a Search for the thread(s)), I like them. My favourite is the Schaller 3D, but that's mostly because I play a lot with the heel of my hand on the bridge, and the Schaller is very comfortable for that. Also, the ability to adjust the horizontal position* of the string comes in handy if you're playing about with pickups, to help align the string over the pickups should they be a little astray.

* Err, that's horizontal if you have the bass lying on a flat surface to work on. When the bass is on the strap, it'd be vertical. Er. You know what I mean. I hope...

[Jondeeman]

[quote name='mentalextra' post='1251644' date='May 31 2011, 03:37 PM']Great. Thanks for the help and advice. I must say that I am not in it for profit. Just the fun side really. I understand with pickups you get what you pay for. But, the bridge looks to be a very different item. Genuine Fender Jazz bridges dont appear to look a lot different from the hardware on cheapy copies, just a bent piece of steel screwed to the body. Would I be right in thinking that the more "mass" or substance to the bridge the better.

Thanks again for the great advice[/quote]

The bridge is a bit more than a bent piece of metal. I'm not sure why you'd look to change that out first, though - unless there's a fault with the existing one. The biggest change you will be able to make is the pickups. If you change these and then set-up the bass properly, it'll sound and feel like a different instrument.

[Muzz]

[quote name='Jondeeman' post='1251662' date='May 31 2011, 03:51 PM']The bridge is a bit more than a bent piece of metal. I'm not sure why you'd look to change that out first, though - unless there's a fault with the existing one. The biggest change you will be able to make is the pickups. If you change these and then set-up the bass properly, it'll sound and feel like a different instrument.[/quote]

Yep, having been down the road a couple of times now, I'd do this first. Unless you don't like the feel of the bass - the neck on the SX (and the Ryder) is so big, they had to go first.

[mentalextra]

OK thanks. I will look into pickups. Should keep me busy for a while.

Many thanks for your help

[BOD2]

[quote name='mentalextra' post='1251658' date='May 31 2011, 03:46 PM']Yeah, I had already seen this. Very interesting. Its difficult to see the difference in the machine heads though.[/quote]

Good machine heads hold the string firmly and don't loosen (much) while the bass is being played. They also feel smoother to turn and have less backlash in the gears. There's also some cosmetic differences between good and cheap ones (better chrome, or different design).

If the cheaper ones you already have hold the string well and don't have any issues then changing them will not affect the sound.

[Beedster]

[quote name='BOD2' post='1251698' date='May 31 2011, 04:13 PM']Good machine heads hold the string firmly and don't loosen (much) while the bass is being played. They also feel smoother to turn and have less backlash in the gears. There's also some cosmetic differences between good and cheap ones (better chrome, or different design).

If the cheaper ones you already have hold the string well and don't have any issues then changing them will not affect the sound.[/quote]

A decent set of machines is a surprisingly effective upgrade.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1251706' date='May 31 2011, 04:15 PM']A decent set of machines is a surprisingly effective upgrade.[/quote]

You find a tonal difference then?

I must say the bridge upgrade is probably worth it to some, not others. It makes a difference to sound, but whether that's good or bad depends what you're after! I'd always go pickups first.

[Beedster]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1251843' date='May 31 2011, 06:20 PM']You find a tonal difference then?[/quote]

Mmmmmm, hard to call it 'tone', but I think cheap tuners can add artefacts to notes that are eradicated with more expensive ones. It might be simply that some cheaper mechanisms resonate ever so slightly? I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me I'm talking rubbish

IME, bridge upgrades can make a huge difference on an active Jazz strung with rounds, and virtually none on a Precision strung with heavy flats

[mentalextra]

Yep.

[Jondeeman]

What sort of bass is it?

[BOD2]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1251706' date='May 31 2011, 04:15 PM']A decent set of machines is a surprisingly effective upgrade.[/quote]

Well one thing about good machine heads is that they feel nice when you're using them and since that's all part of the bass that you touch then it can make the whole thing feel "nicer" somehow in your hands.

It's a bit like how they put "soft feel" plastics in cars on the switches and other bits that you actually touch, but leave harder plastics in places you don't touch. It enhances the experience when all the bits you touch feel good and work smoothly.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Jondeeman' post='1252365' date='Jun 1 2011, 09:04 AM']What sort of bass is it?[/quote]

J bass copy

[Jondeeman]

[quote name='mentalextra' post='1253145' date='Jun 1 2011, 08:45 PM']J bass copy [/quote]

Well then, the world is your oyster!

So many choices, so little time. I'm assuming that the bass is passive???

Might be worth looking at some of the Fender pickups that come up here, or even the dreaded Ebay. Although they're often disgarded by those in search of something better, stock Fender pickups (or even some of the more "exotic" Fender p'ups) are a nice place to start. I've got some Originals in my J copy and they tend to make the appropriate sounds. They can also be found going for a song - sure, there are cooler, more expensive and (even) better items, but on a budget, you could do worse. May be worth giving the electricals a once over and upgrading at the same time too.

Have fun.