Sansamp Choice?

[son of frog]

Hi again!

So i've been speaking to one of the tutors / session musicians at my Uni,
And he says that he uses a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver Pedal through every rig / amp he uses.

The original black one,
And i was just on the verge of purchasing a VT Bass Deluxe, but now i'm not so sure,
I want that Tube tone and possibly a mild overdrive and a heavy overdrive, So the 3 footswitch models are the ones im looking at

But do they essentally do the same thing? Or are they very different. they seem like the same product:

[url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/tech21-sansamp-bass-driver-programmable-di--27780"]Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver (3 Presets)[/url]

[url="http://www.electromusic.co.uk/Sansamp-Bass-Driver-Deluxe.html"]Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver Deluxe (3 Presets & FX Loop)[/url]

[b]OR![/b]

[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/tech21-sansamp-vt-bass-deluxe--70968"]Tech 21 Sansamp VT Bass Deluxe[/url]

Could someone plese clear this up for me, Because i dont really fancy buying both... even though i'm sure they're both great bits of kit.

-Tom

[topo morto]

Tone-wise, i'd boil the difference down to this :

The Bass Driver has a pre-gain tone control called 'presence', which provides a real sharpness to the sound - almost working like a harmonic exciter. However, there's no way of doing a pre-gain bass cut, so high drive settings sound very buzzy - which I would call a disadvantage. However, it does have a blend knob. Finally, the Bass driver sound is scooped around 800Hz.

The VT Bass has a pre-gain tone control around 1Khz (the 'character' knob) which also cuts lows. This enables a much wider range of usable high-gain sounds - things get 'clangy' rather than 'buzzy'. It has a mellower tone overall than the bass driver. It has a post gain mid control too, which the BDDI lacks.

Both will be able to give you a somewhat 'scooped', larger-than life, sound with mild tube overdrive. The Bass driver has the edge if you want to take that to extremes or if you like very bright sounds, or you like a tight feel.

The VT bass has a looser feel but is better (IMO) for high levels of drive due to the nature of the character knob, and is also easier to set to mid-heavy sounds.

My personal preference at the moment is the Bass Driver, as I like the 'hoojness' of it... But the VT bass does almost everything the Bass Driver does and more besides. So the VT bass would probably be the 'If in doubt' option.

Disclaimer - my experience is with the bog-standard VT Bass and BDDI, so I may be missing a trick or two that the posh versions can do.

Edited April 27, 2011 by topo morto

[son of frog]

[quote name='topo morto' post='1213306' date='Apr 27 2011, 11:06 PM']Disclaimer - my experience is with the bog-standard VT Bass and BDDI, so I may be missing a trick or two that the posh versions can do.[/quote]

Thanks so much for clearing this up a bit.

And i think the Deluxe is pretty much the same but with 3 presets and an FX loop, so your advice is probably still relevant.

Would be interesting to hear from others who have or have owned both,
I may end up with both and i fear this may just be a very long winded WHICH ONE DO I BUY FIRST!

Im only going on what i've heard, the VT bass sounds awesome,
i suppose i should try and find someone with a BDDI and give it a go.

Edited April 27, 2011 by son of frog

[BassPimp66]

I have a VT Bass and I find it really hard now to play without it. It's a great sounding preamp/speaker modeler. Makes my sound fat and musical. The only thing that bothers me slightly is the lack of DI, but I plug it into my radial DI and the sound simply awesome. I note that the Deluxe version has a DI, so no need for an extra piece of kit.

[topo morto]

There are a lot of people who swear by the BDDI, and a lot who say it's the worst thing since sliced sh*t (they get all emotional about their mids.) VT bass has even more fans, and not so many detractors. Incidentally, the best description I heard of its sound was [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/sansamp-vt-bass-deluxe-vs-bass-driver-deluxe-703324/"]fuzzy and round "Like a tennis ball"... [/url]

Good luck with your choice!

[son of frog]

[quote name='topo morto' post='1213344' date='Apr 27 2011, 11:37 PM']"Fuzzy and round, Like a tennis ball"[/quote]





GAHHH.
I want them both,

But i've seen and heard only good things about the VT bass so i might trust my instinct and cough up the extra cash for it.

I wish i had more money... Becoming a full time musician has near Bankrupted me.
I suppose its worth it.

Edited April 27, 2011 by son of frog

[thodrik]

I have had the Sansamp Bass Driver for the last 3-4 years. Great peace of kit, especially with a passive Fender bass. Since I have moved on to active basses (Vigier/Sadowsky) I have not been using the Sansamp much as I don't need the extra character that the pedal adds (which is a mid cut). Still its the first thing I grab when recording, and I bring it to every gig regardless in case I just need it. I don't really like the overly distorted tones though, and the presence knob can make things sound a bit clanky, but otherwise I can't fault the thing. A great bit of kit.

The lack of a DI on the VT bass has prevented me from really considering one seriously, but it has got great reviews. I suppose it depends on whether you need the DI that the Bass Driver has or whether you need the extra functions of the VT Bass deluxe.

[chrismuzz]

I had to make this tough decision myself A few months back! But I think I came to the best solution for me.

I'm a Passive player, I love the more traditional sound and feel you get from passive basses but also being in a metal band I need that tight, modern, more aggressive driven kinda sound. In my experience I've been able to use outboard preamps to get the active sound using a passive bass, but never been able to achieve a passive sound using an active! I think I made the right decision by going for the Programmable BDDI with 3 presets. that way I have my straight up bass sound, plus three 'active bass' kinda sounds with slightly different EQ and varying degrees of nice tubey gain

The VT Bass is an amazing piece of kit, especially if you want the ampeg sound! I would love one, but I can definately do without it. It's got some awesome distorted tones, but my Sansamp, Marshall, and Big Muff are more than enough dirt for me! I've figured out with different combinations I literally have 12 easily accessable distortion/fuzz tones at my feet!

What I would say though is if you DO go for it, go for the Deluxe version. You get a total of 6 presets, and you can get so many diverse and usable sounds you'll be glad of that! Even if you dont use the FX loop or DI they're handy as hell and a nice extra

Edited April 28, 2011 by chrismuzz

[topo morto]

I'd like to see a bit of consolidation in Tech21's product line - e.g. a deluxe-style pedal with switchable BD / VT mode (or just with the controls of both.)
The ability to have both BD and VT presets in one programmable pedal would make it a 'must-have'...

[son of frog]

[quote name='topo morto' post='1213679' date='Apr 28 2011, 11:47 AM']I'd like to see a bit of consolidation in Tech21's product line - e.g. a deluxe-style pedal with switchable BD / VT mode (or just with the controls of both.)
The ability to have both BD and VT presets in one programmable pedal would make it a 'must-have'...[/quote]

Very true, but it would probably cost the earth...

I reckon for me a DI would be really useful, with all my recording equipment being upstairs would save a lot of effort
lugging amps up and down the stairs

Both the BD and VT Deluxe have a DI,
but for what i really want, ie. using it live, getting that growly Ampeg / Tube tone the VT is probably the one to go for, and hopefully when i get it i will decide i no longer need the BDDI

and i'm really hoping this will eliminate my urges to buy an Ampeg SVT Classic and 8x10

[topo morto]

[quote name='son of frog' post='1214447' date='Apr 29 2011, 01:40 AM']the VT is probably the one to go for, and hopefully when i get it i will decide i no longer need the BDDI[/quote]

I think you'll be very happy with it... rest assured that the VT bass can get near most of the tones that the BDDI can do, and nail many of them.

I think it's great to have such tone-shaping DI's. All you really need is one of those, and a little amp just big enough to play places that don't have a decent PA... 100W or something. That's all you should have to lug anywhere!

[BB3000S]

You won't go wrong with either one, IMO the BDDI is great but the VT is awesome. Have been using a BDDI for a very long time, but since I got a VT Bass the BDDI has not got much playtime. The one feature I sometimes miss (from old BDDI habit) on the VT is the blend knob, but that's a minor thing really as the VT sounds so good.

[chrismuzz]

The blend knob was the main thing that made me choose the BDDI over the VT. That and the fact that they dont have a Programmable VT with 3 presets. That'd be great! I only use one bass, and i can't justify giving up pedalboard space for yet more presets.I'm driving myself mad as it is with all the fine tuning!

Edited April 29, 2011 by chrismuzz

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='topo morto' post='1213344' date='Apr 27 2011, 11:37 PM']There are a lot of people who swear by the BDDI, and a lot who say it's the worst thing since sliced sh*t (they get all emotional about their mids.)[/quote]
ha ha.. I'm one of the latter.

[Tech21NYC]

A simple way to look at the difference between our Bass Driver DI and VT bass pedals is in terms of modern versus vintage sound. There is some crossover between the two but the Bass Driver has more of that modern mid scooped bass tone with the ability to get some vintage tones as well. The VT Bass on the other hand is designed to emulate more of those vintage Ampeg SVT and B15 sounds.

What I've noticed is that many younger players (at least here in the US) have never really played through a valve bass amp and are sometimes a little overwhelmed when presented with that type of tone. They are used to ultra clean solid state bass amps that are similar to playing direct with the benefit of some speaker coloration and perhaps a bit of compression. If you are unsure, you may want to go with something like our Bass Driver or Para Driver DI pedals as these provide the ability to "blend" in you straight guitar tone with the SansAmp tone. This is similar to the way bass has been recorded for years in the studio. They mic an amp and take a DI of the bass and mix or blend it to become one sound.

This is not to say that you can't be happy with a pedal like our VT Bass. You just need to remember to be very judicious with the drive control until you get used to that analog valve type of tone.

[topo morto]

[color="#C0C0C0"]Subliminal message to Tech 21:
design a combination deluxe bass driver / VT bass[/color]
Aah, we'd done such a good job selling him the VT Bass and then tech 21 come along and muddy the waters!
[color="#C0C0C0"]make a combination deluxe bass driver / VT bass now
you know you want to[/color]

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='chrismuzz' post='1214504' date='Apr 29 2011, 07:34 AM']That and the fact that they dont have a Programmable VT with 3 presets. That'd be great![/quote]

Er, they do! The VT programmable, unless I'm missing something. No blend control though.

Edit:- Me being dumb, it's called the VT Bass Deluxe.

Edited April 29, 2011 by GarethFlatlands

[topo morto]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' post='1215441' date='Apr 30 2011, 12:10 AM']Er, they do! The VT programmable, unless I'm missing something. No blend control though.

Edit:- Me being dumb, it's called the VT Bass Deluxe.[/quote]

Confusingly, the Bass Driver does have both a [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverdlx.html"]Deluxe [/url]and a [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverp.html"]Programmable [/url]version... even though the Deluxe is, of course, programmable!

[son of frog]

[quote name='Tech21NYC' post='1215080' date='Apr 29 2011, 04:36 PM']A simple way to look at the difference between our Bass Driver DI and VT bass pedals is in terms of modern versus vintage sound. There is some crossover between the two but the Bass Driver has more of that modern mid scooped bass tone with the ability to get some vintage tones as well. The VT Bass on the other hand is designed to emulate more of those vintage Ampeg SVT and B15 sounds.

What I've noticed is that many younger players (at least here in the US) have never really played through a valve bass amp and are sometimes a little overwhelmed when presented with that type of tone. They are used to ultra clean solid state bass amps that are similar to playing direct with the benefit of some speaker coloration and perhaps a bit of compression. If you are unsure, you may want to go with something like our Bass Driver or Para Driver DI pedals as these provide the ability to "blend" in you straight guitar tone with the SansAmp tone. This is similar to the way bass has been recorded for years in the studio. They mic an amp and take a DI of the bass and mix or blend it to become one sound.

This is not to say that you can't be happy with a pedal like our VT Bass. You just need to remember to be very judicious with the drive control until you get used to that analog valve type of tone.[/quote]

Thanks for the great in depth reply.

The BDDI is probably better in respect of using it as a DI, And what i'll probably end up doing is Getting the VT Deluxe using that live for those great vintage tones, And then if i'm not 100% happy with the DI sound i'm getting from it, Invest in the BDDI either the single stomp-box, but since theres only about a £15 - 20 price difference may end up with the 3 programmable version.

Thanks again.
Tom

[son of frog]

[quote name='topo morto' post='1215445' date='Apr 30 2011, 12:17 AM']Confusingly, the Bass Driver does have both a [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverdlx.html"]Deluxe [/url]and a [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverp.html"]Programmable [/url]version... even though the Deluxe is, of course, programmable![/quote]

Yeah, i believe the Deluxe (Like the VT Bass) also has 2 separate switchable inputs, an FX Loop as well as a Parallel Out, whereas the Programable is just the 3 selectable custom user defined tones.

Edited April 30, 2011 by son of frog

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='son of frog' post='1215457' date='Apr 30 2011, 01:27 AM']The BDDI is probably better in respect of using it as a DI, And what i'll probably end up doing is Getting the VT Deluxe using that live for those great vintage tones, And then if i'm not 100% happy with the DI sound i'm getting from it, Invest in the BDDI either the single stomp-box, but since theres only about a £15 - 20 price difference may end up with the 3 programmable version.[/quote]

I'm considering selling my programmable deluxe as it's overkill for what I use it for. I'll PM you when I've made a decision and advertise it on here. I don't use bass effects (bass > tuner> sansamp > amp) so I have no use for the FX loop and just use the Sansamp going straight into the front of my amp to shape the tone and give a clean/dirty channel.

[quote name='son of frog' post='1215460' date='Apr 30 2011, 01:29 AM']Yeah, i believe the Deluxe (Like the VT Bass) also has 2 separate switchable inputs, an FX Loop as well as a Parallel Out, whereas the Programable is just the 3 selectable custom user defined tones.[/quote]

It does, you can also plug one bass into the 1st input and can use a total of 6 presets on the deluxe.

[son of frog]

With the VT bass, much like the BDDI Deluxe
Am i right in assuming the 2 inputs can be used for 2 separate instruments (If the pedal comes before the Amplifier)?

Also it has 6 effect channels, How do you switch between the first 3 and the other 3? does it depend on which input is being used?
I.e you have 3 programable presets per input?

Cheers

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='son of frog' post='1215704' date='Apr 30 2011, 12:19 PM']With the VT bass, much like the BDDI Deluxe
Am i right in assuming the 2 inputs can be used for 2 separate instruments (If the pedal comes before the Amplifier)?

Also it has 6 effect channels, How do you switch between the first 3 and the other 3? does it depend on which input is being used?
I.e you have 3 programable presets per input?

Cheers[/quote]

I've never used it with 2 basses but yeah, you can plug a bass into each of the 2 inputs. The far right hand footswitch then selects between the 2 inputs and the other 3 switches select between the 3 presets for that input.

If you just have one bass plugged in then you can use the right hand switch to give you another 3 presets for that instrument, a total of 6. The right hand switch also controls the effects loop with a double tap, but again, I've never used it so don't know if it's any good or not.

Hope that makes sense.

[son of frog]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' post='1215932' date='Apr 30 2011, 04:44 PM']I've never used it with 2 basses but yeah, you can plug a bass into each of the 2 inputs. The far right hand footswitch then selects between the 2 inputs and the other 3 switches select between the 3 presets for that input.

If you just have one bass plugged in then you can use the right hand switch to give you another 3 presets for that instrument, a total of 6. The right hand switch also controls the effects loop with a double tap, but again, I've never used it so don't know if it's any good or not.

Hope that makes sense.[/quote]

Yeah that make so much more sense,
I'm really pleased with how much you can do with this pedal.

I've ordered one now, I can't wait.

[scooby_snack]

[quote name='son of frog' post='1216029' date='Apr 30 2011, 06:25 PM']Yeah that make so much more sense,
I'm really pleased with how much you can do with this pedal.

I've ordered one now, I can't wait.[/quote]

Hi - how did you get on with the deluxe? I'm also deciding whether to purchase this pedal to get an Ampeg 8x10 SVT tone !