EBS_freak

And still nobody mentions the improvement in sound quality when you've ditched the amps. re:drums just for anybody interested, acoustic drums are still the preference for any drummer. A drummer that turns up to a pub gig with a huge kit and super bright and loud cymbals is the local village idiot. In terms of micing, for pub gigs a lot of the time you'll just need kick. For larger venues, you can successfully mic with two mics. I personally never mic the snare directly unless I am micing the whole kit. On a two mic setup, i would choose to mic the kick drum and a single condenser mic on a high stand behind the drummers right shoulder, pointing directly across the kit at the snare. (Assuming drummer plays right handed). This way it'll get a good coverage of the kit, (hi hats and splash included) not just the snare. It sounds great in the inears also - if you are using them. PS - entry level wired inear monitoring can be achieved for way under 100 quid per person for somebody using ME6s. For something a lot better, for a 200 quid setup, consider something like UE900s. Read about it in the inear monitoring thead if you are interested. Also, check out the inear recording I put up in there and ask yourself if that isn't something you'd like on a gig. That level of monitoring is now affordable even in a pub band given the pricing of digital desks now. Link - Theres always going to be dinosaurs stuck in their ways. Tech has moved on. Not too long ago, PA that would take a full band going through them was prohibitively expensive. This isn't the case now as the tech is becoming a lot more affordable. Whether people choose to embrace it or not is another thing. I'm convinced that the amp route is on borrowed time now... but that's just me. I like an amp like the next guy... but the convienience of a PA doing all the work, the better monitoring that it opens up, wins it for me hands down. I don't care if people want to go the same route as me or not - I just like to correct statements that suggest a route like that is prohibitively expensive. You only have to read through the IEM thread to see what a revelation it has been for the people that have made the switch. And to be honest, you don't even have to go with IEMs... a serious wedge with your own mix of the whole band in it, with the foh doing all the real work, is another great option. The crazy thing is, nobody batts an eyelid about paying crazy money for backline but if I said the best sound you'll ever have is if you changed your say, 1000 quid boutique cab for a 1000 quid monitor that has both you and the band going through it, most people would not be interested... Not saying my opinion is worth more than anybody else's - but I've done both routes in anger. My IEMs for example, cost more than most peoples complete backline... but that's how much I have been sold on the alternative method of getting a band sounding the best it can both in my ears and out front. The other thing is, my sound is consistent in every venue and I can hear exactly what I want. When I was at the drum show, I was having a similar convo with a drummer whilst at the IEM stand. If you were on a gig with IEMs, you can hear everything you want to hear at a volume you want to hear them. Percussion on a gig? Great! I want to hear that shaker and Indian bells they got going on. Chances of enjoying that on stage without IEMs? Zero. You'll be lucky to hear anything over the drummer. Anyway, the point is, is that this stuff is now available to all - whether it's on a stadium gig or a pub gig. - and I guarantee your audience will appreciate the band more if they can hear everything clearly through the PA. A decent PA yields better high frequency horns too - so getting your vocalist heard over the band is easier... and that is further cemented that the quieter band sound on stage means less bleed into the mics. As I say, Dinos can be Dinos for all I care... but it's interesting to see all these old guys advocating that nothing but an amp would do are all deaf and wired up with hearing aids... but each to their own.

It depends what line of thought you have when trying to make your point though. I know there's people that don't get it and that's fine... but you need to see the PA speakers as a replacement for a bass amp, a keys amp, a guitar amp (or 2) and the means to make a tiny portable drum kit sound huge. Oh yeah... and that's before you get to the vocalists. That's a huge weight and size saving across the whole band. And in terms of volume, you aren't deafening everybody onstage and outfront, your decent PA speakers are not going to run out of steam before your combo. Meanwhile, your band is going to project properly... e.g. So unlike those guys that are standing off axis to a guitar amp, those guys that are hearing the whole band through the PA are going to hear a balanced mix wherever they are standing. With regard to band ownership of PA, I own it all anyway... because I'd rather take a pair of tops and some in ears to a gig and know the band is going to sound great. If I'm playing with another band, I can just take a top or two to use as my rig.

Depends... a RCF 735/745, Yamaha DX15... they'll quite happily put out a shed load of bass...

Ooh! Does that mean we going shopping?

You need to replace your cables and plugs for black ones!

Nope - that's why I mentioned them. As a PA, a pair of either will do better than a lot of 2 tops and 2 sub setups.

Any high quality PA speaker is going to get your there. My current faves would be something like a RCF 735/745. Anything will do for guitar... but for bass, you need some tops that can take some abuse in the lows.

Whats your budget?

The plastic is always vulnerable on the cables as they are regularly dosed in the sweat and oils around your ears and hair. JH changed their connector on their higher end models for two reasons - to enable the adjustable bass functionally but to also make them more hard wearing. As always, carry a spare if you can... as at one point they will go, most likely at the ear connector end or the jack socket. In terms of the higher quality cable - I don't think any superior quality cable will improve things sonically when being used with PA gear - and even then, the connectors are still going to subject to the same sweat etc. Just keep using the wax picks routinely after every use and wipe them down. I tend to put mind in the acs sanitiser every couple of months too.

It's not going to be just the desk - it's maybe that the trim on the speakers is too high. You may need to turn those down. Basically, your output on your desk should never be going into the red when the output is at unity. Likewise, your speakers should never be clipping when your output on the desk is at unity. You are doing the right thing by using the PA for projection and keeping your stage volume down - I just think your gain levels are to pot.

If you are cutting out the front of house, it sounds like you are driving the inputs of the speakers far too hard and the circuitry is cutting the speaker in order to protect the components. Make sure that your sound guy knows how to gain properly and the input is set such that the speaker doesn't not peak. With regards to the crossover, you consider the PA system as a high and the crossover routes the frequencies coming from your bass to either the tops or/and woofers appropriately. An in appropriately set crossover wouldn't cause your PA to cut out - that would be the incorrect gain staging and pushing too hot a signal to the speakers from your desk's output. Set your speakers to 100Hz but with all honestly, with what you've said, it sounds like your sound guy isn't... and could do with a crash course before he/she causes damage to your PA speakers.

Pre EQ. You should have a crossover point set which is common between the tops and bottom. In reality, the correct answer is the one that your ears say is right. Assuming you are using DXS15, you would probably choose to go with the 100hz setting on both the sub and the top. There should be a crossover built into your speakers - so the sub will do the lows and the tops the highs... you just send a full range L and R to the subs. You can also implement an "aux fed sub" (google it)... but remember to high pass your tops if you do that.

OK - I realise that the monitor mix that I did way back has vanished due to be in my attachments prior to the basschat migration. Anyway, I'd like to think that I've moved on from where I was, especially now I am running a dedicated monitoring desk and dropping waves plugins and the like into the mix. Yeah, I guess I'm getting pretty serious about inears and the stuff! For those truly geeking - I've got a FoH desk, a monitoring desk, a broadcast desk (for Facebook live mixes etc) - all connected via Dante. (By running DAWs on various other connected Macs for example, I'm kinda limitless on the mixing front now). And of course, with Dante, it's easy to record the gig from all points of views (FoH mixes, ears mixes etc... with Dante virtual sound card). The stereo outputs to the inears were pushed to a Mac recording what you hear. There were also another other recorders (one DL32R and DAWs running - as this particular gig may be going onto video so absolutely wanted to make sure I had loads of redundancy! - Anyway, the resulting audio will sync nicely with the video being captured (independently to the feed that was sent via the live broadcast). Here's my den underneath the stage which was hosting the Dante switches, computers, mixers etc! And here was the view from the front before the punters arrived... Anyway, this was in ear mix for the female lead vocalist - hence the lead vocal being very prominent in the mix. Thing of note on this mix, it's not a mix that your would want to commit to record - it's tailored towards what the inear user wants. In this case, the vocal is really pushed (after all, which vocalist doesn't want to hear more of themselves? - same with drummers and bass drums (incidentally I have a separate channel for dealing with the drummers bass drum wants!). Any mono feeds have had pseudo stereo effects applied (to give more stereo spread) and panned appropriately to help try and avoid everything being central in the in ear user's head. The more you can shift from the centre position the better (helps things sound a lot more natural and less fatiguing). Hopefully you can hear the instruments spread across the soundscape. Personally, I don't like the sound of the stereo spread on the lead vocal when listening back - but when performing, it's great and gives a sense of space in your head. For those that complain about isolation, there's two hard panned condenser mics pointing toward the audience (3500 of them on this gig) - hopefully you can get a sense of them being in the room with you, especially at the beginning and the end of the song. Have a listen on headphones and see what you reckon... and tell me if you've ever played a gig with a wedge that sounds anywhere near as good as this! FemaleVox-HigherAndHigher.mp3

Umm... right. Not sure of your point. Guys do have a habit of starting again especially when the no compete agreement usually put in place after the sale is over. Other examples is when people are ditched by the company that has purchased them... Mark Gooday and Ashdown rising from Trace for example following the original Kaman sale.

I didn't say they would do the right things with the figures!

I don't know the figures but this doesn't entirely surprise me. Cakewalk must be way down the ranking in terms of the market that it is in competing in... and the market is getting ever more saturated and fiercely competitive. If you look at every one of their products, there is a more successful offering from the competition... or a cheaper/free/open source one. I hate to see brands die But Gibson is a business and they'll be looking at the figures above everything else. SWR and Genz are interesting examples too... Give it a few more years and SWR and Genz will not even be a memory. Doesn't mean that they weren't great products... but the F name still carries more weight from a marketing point of view... whether the interested party be 12 or 92 years of age. Even somebody with no particular interest in music will be able to recognise the Fender name. The same will never be able to be said for SWR or Genz.

JH deals https://www.jhaudio.com/black_friday_2017?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pic&utm_campaign=Black-Friday-2017

Winning rig. People seem to forget that the drivers that are used in PA speakers are generally superior to those found in even boutique bass cabs...

Hello - OK - so there isn't any digital artifacts like you describe... however if the profile that you are using is noisy, then the output will be noisy.... like an amp. If it's got hiss going on due to the gain, then so does the Kemper. It certainly doesn't feel digital - in fact, it's quite openly known that it tricks most people into thinking that it is the real deal. I've never used the headphones output so can't give you an answer to that - however, volume is subjective and also the volume you experience is also down to the impedance of the headphones that you use. I believe that the PJBs are 32 Ohm should be ok for use without a headphone amp for most applications... but there's nothing stopping you from using a seperate headphone amp. Headphone amps can be picked up for not a great deal - so shouldn't be a deal breaker - and if you've already got some, then job done. So rigs are generally just the sound of the amps - whether that be clean or dirty.... and can be profiles with or without cabs. If you were to put a drive pedal in front of the amp that you are profiling, then that sound would make up your resulting profile. You can't remove the pedal. Typically you run a number of profiles of the same amp - from clean to dirty with all shades inbetween. The Kemper does allow for the addition and subtraction of gain - but wont go from clean to dirty as well as if you are running separate profiles of the amp running at different gains. You can EQ on all profiles. The Kemper has fx built in - modulations, delays, octaves and drives (yes, it has models of dirt pedals that can be placed in front of any profile) - these are basically virtual stomp boxes that can be added and removed to the base profile... as they would be a traditional amp. I should mention that you can only profile amps, drives and distortions. Time based effects cannot be profiled.

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Haha! Takes a bloody age to do my house carpets too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjoy_Every_Sandwich:_The_Songs_of_Warren_Zevon

Having experienced the drum show for the first time last weekend, I can assure you that the Bingley and Bass shows are somewhat silent in comparison. Ridiculous!

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