EBS_freak

The main issues are going to be this - The amount of phones in the audience that are in the audience with wifi enabled The amount of wireless that is in the venue on 2.4Ghz. The amount of metal that is present in the area and the receiver and transmission location in relation to large blocks of metal The power of the transmissions that have the potential to directly interfere (e.g. exact same frequency or frequencies that will cause RFI due to intermodulation) with the portion of spectrum that you are using with your wireless. The proximity of wireless transmission sources next to you receiver The proximity of devices that generate interference to your receiver... e.g. mains, faders, transformers.... I don't know the event at which you were using your wireless - but wireless co-ordination at large scale events can be very tricky! In the pro world, 2.4Ghz would never be used. 5 Ghz would tend to be avoided also... but more likely to be interference free due to more channels being available without running into intermodulation issues... there is however, a trade off (assuming like for like power output) of propagation and range. Generally, digital wireless for instruments and mics would be deployed over Channel 38, or using frequencies that have been licensed to a venue or have a time limited license for a special event. Wireless iPads are used now and again to aid mixing - but thats usually done before show time, where the risk of RF interference is lower. At show time, FOH and Monitor world will be behind their desks... or minimum, a laptop with a physical cable to the control network. For most people, 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz are going to do the business at most venues (although you may run into issues at say conference centres or hotels where there is likely to be a lot of wifi) - and of course, the big plus is they are license free. Channel 38 systems will usually solve all RF problems... HOWEVER, if you factor in the license and the cost of digital units that operate outside of the 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz frequency ranges, then you'll see the cheaper solutions are a good fix for most gigs... just don't rely on them without a backup cable!!

Metallica are on AxeFx2 I believe. Oh... and in ears... although to be completely transparent with the regard to the discussion happening here... they do have Meyer wedges pointing back at them... The key thing is, the wedges are pointing backwards... and not into the mics, so no bleed. Oh -- and they tend to be on large stages too.

Well.. if folks are gonna be chatting chuff...

Funnily enough, I had a look through the rosters for the 3 big players for in ears... http://pro.ultimateears.com/whos-using http://www.64audio.com/artists https://www.jhaudio.com/artist_roster Just look at all those rock acts that have been killed by using inears. Jerry and Vitaliy should be disgusted with themselves. They've almost single handedly killed rock n roll... and thats not even taking into account the impact that I've had! I'm sure the day that Jerry Harvey handed Van Halen the first of his inears for them to use, the bowels of hell rumbled in despair.

It does certainly sound like you have some dodgy IEC cables going on... although it's quite rare. Maybe the cable is giving up through years of being flexed?

That's all personal preference. There's nothing wrong with plugging your bass straight into the desk. There's nothing wrong with using amp and cab simulator on a digital desk if it has one. Maybe you want a preamp straight into the desk. Maybe you want a preamp into a cab simulator into the desk. I like the Kemper because it covers off my bass and guitar needs and has a plentiful supply of fx. Im really happy with it. I know the Helix well too... I would be really happy with that too. These both give you the full blown rig simulation. I actually really enjoy going through the PA without any cab simulation. I personally would like to craft in the sound of the cab via EQ rather than use the emulation. On guitar however... cab simulation for sure. On the Kemper, I use a Focusrite pre into a SSL desk profile. I love it. I tend to use a Chandler LTD1 preamp profile. That's amazing also. Of course, I then have all the inbuilt fx at my disposal via the remote. Yes, the Kemper is expensive... but if you were to ditch your whole setup (including pedal board) for a Kemper, you may find it more competitively priced. If the Kemper is still too much, the Helix... and especially the Helix LT will still get you awesome results. I had used an EBS microbass 2 straight into the desk before the Kemper. That was great. I had used my HD350 into the desk before hand - without using the power amp in it. I liked it... but the Kemper could do the same and more. The Sansamp Q strip really appeals to me... it's tone shaping is similar to that found on traditional analogue desks... but having said that, all that and more is available directly by plugging into most mixers. The key thing is, you can get "your tone" via the direct route... there's plenty of EQ in pedals, modellers and the desk to get you there. If theres must have pedals in your chain, simple... just leave them in as you would do going to an amp. Going analogue but still want a speaker sim - easy, there's plenty out there... but most of them are a take on EQ anyway. If you want to look at the more boutique speaker emulators out there, guys like Two Notes Engineering is probably where you should be looking at. http://www.two-notes.com/en/torpedo-cab - their stuff is pretty cool stuff.. and easy to deploy in a pedal board like manner. The thing is, we are pretty spoiled now. A few minutes on Google will show you whats out there... there's certainly lots to choose from.

Lock up your amps people, I've taken rock and roll... the backroom folk clubs are next. Ha ha ha ha. I'll get you all in the end.

A bit like Brian Johnson's hearing.

It's the fuses at the IEC input that protects the amp. So yeah. Your cable is not a fuse.. and the HT fuse will blow first anyway.

4 mics is impressive! I think I own all the singers mics that I work with! Funny, if I was a singer, as a minimum, I would have a wireless, my favourite mic, a SM58 (so all sound engineers know the mic) and a stupid bling mic for those sort of gigs. And yet, here we are talking about singers who don't even own a mic. It's 100 quid for a decent mic. £100. Pfft.

It's like a wedge, yes.

I can guess. They haven't even got their own mic have they?

Thats fair enough - in your situation, that makes sense to what you are personally carrying and what you are prepared to spend. Of course, the sound out front and volume on stage arguments from the rest of this thread still apply. What you need to be doing now, is working on the singer to buy the 735s, so you can turn up with a pair of inear monitors and a bass.

i. Its very rare that you're hearing the fundamental on your bass... so for your bottom B, you are hearing the harmonics at 62, 104 etc... and the magic of your brain filling in the missing fundamental... Rather than me go into detail, check this out - https://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-tone-and-eq/the-harmonic-series-and-timbre/ and specifically the section "The Missing Fundamental Effect". I can guarantee that your Vanderklay is not reproducing the fundamentals at all or at any significant volume. ii. It all gets summed, whether it's at your ears or whether it's by a mixer. By minimising whats happening on stage you should get less phase cancellation. Why do CDs not have weird sh*t when they come out a set of hifi speakers? You are essentially doing the same. If you were to get a digital mixer, you could be cleaning all those wild signals up with the compressors and low pass filters also, so it would sound even better. If you get some meaty speakers, they will just give you what your mixing desk is sending out, no sweat. iii. Those 735s aren't heavy - perhaps saying easier to carry is a bit unfair on the QSCs. The RCFs are an easy one box, one person lift - I know lots of people that have them - and have proven that they can do what I'm talking about here. That 3" VC really is the secret behind the RCFs. 3 and 4 inch voice coils are generally not found in cabs at this price point, especially ones that are made out of plastic. Once you hear them, you'll understand right away. With regards to my preference of 15s over 12... I find that 15s are generally better than the 12s equivalent - for moving air, especially in the lows. These tops will do most bands without subs - and thats putting bass and kick through the tops (assuming your kick is properly compressed and gated). 12" subs are never great, 15" subs are generally a lot better... hence why when going for tops and no subs, I prefer ones that can do a good take on a sub... hence the 15s on top. iv. There's positives and negatives for both. For portability, I favour active. If I was to be doing a much bigger gig with separate crossovers and speaker management is in play, then passive is where it's at. But those gigs are wildly different situations. For most, actives is clean and simple and has the built in DSP to protect the speaker. Power goes in here. Signal goes in here from the desk. Job done. I'm sure that they'll be many people that would argue its similar for passive...but theres plenty of examples of that all over the rest of BC. Funnily enough, only last night, I was at a music quiz at a hotel - and the clown running it was using a zoom mic off a recorder into a bastardised set of cables into some Sony hifi plastic tat. He was switching cables for the iPod he playing music through. I just decided to go home and pick up a 312 and mini mixer to save the evening as it was woeful. Mixing desk and speaker, job done. Don't think I could have been arsed if I had plumbed an amp into the rack or anything like that. Anyway, short answer, doesn't really matter. EDIT - jack above nails iv.

Geography teacher weekend warriors. ...with leather elbow patches

Pfft. Dinochat.

I would take the QSC over the Yamaha... but would take a RCF 735 over the QSC - easier to carry, similar output - but more importantly, the all important 3" VC in the horn that enables it to have a lower crossover to free up the woofer to be more effective in the lows whilst given your vocals a lot more headroom. The 310s will do you for monitors but you will likely to need to roll off the some of the subs as you are asking a relatively little box to do quite a lot. I would go for a XR16 in that price range - digital and controllable via an iPad/android/laptop. Most important thing is that it opens up a lot in terms of gates, eq and compression on each channel. You'll be able to track down feedback a lot easier... as you have 31 band eq available on all outputs - and is perfect for crafting inears mixes if you want to explore that route at a later date. And it's tiny and can sit next to you on stage. The functionality of the Zed60 in comparison is miniscule.

So the PA outfront - people seeing a gig is usually an isolated event where if they are uncomfortable with the volume, should be standing further back. Most gigs are too loud anyway and will cause permanent hearing damage.... but you can always take earplugs... but again, that isnt rock and roll is it? When playing regularly in a band, this problem is compounded further as despite what the literature says, playing with earplugs doesn't attenuate across the frequency range like one big volume knob... so a lot of people still play without them. Standing next to a drum kit with loads of splashy cymbals and amps running flat out is also going to play havoc with your hearing. Buy hey, as long as it's flapping those trousers, all is good. Here's the rub - those amps running loud are going to bleed absolutely everywhere... straight into the mics, muddying up the mix somewhat rotten. That will make the band sound worse out front. Everybody knows, whether you are in the studio, or live, mic bleed is not a sound mans friend. Similarly, running amps so loud you can hear them over the PA is equally frustrating, as you can't get a good mix and you can't get a good balance between the left and right speakers because those loud guitar amps are highly directional. Pity the guy in the audience who is getting blasted by it. Pity the guy who has come to the gig and is off axis to the guitar amp and can't hear the guitar. Yes, the sound guy could put more of it through the PA... but then poor guy getting blasted is now getting full on assaulted and everybody is questioning whether the sound guy is deaf because there is so much guitar in the mix. You yourself have stated that bleed into mics (from the cymbals etc) is a problem. It is - so by having the onstage volumes more quiet alleviates this. Yes, I know you are going to say that it's just not rock and roll to not be smashing seven shades of sh** out of a kit... but you should be playing for your audience... not for self indulgence. Your band will sound better with a smaller / less loud kit and darker cymbals to avoid all the shrillness coming over the cymbals. Will make your vocal sound infinitely better too. So lets talk in ears. Which inears were you using? When I am talking about inears, I talk of inears that give you 26db attenuation - much more than your typical 17db attenuation that you typically get from ear plugs. Note - 17 to 26dB is a big amount. 26 is like putting your fingers deep into your ear holes. If you had to turn your inears up so loud, I guarantee that you did not have a good seal on them. If you did, you can do a gig on inears at whisper volumes. Fact. Standing 1 metre or 1 mile from the drum kit will make no difference when the band is playing because the isolation provided by the inears means you can't hear the ambient drums with any clarity or volume. So when you say the snare is too loud in your ears, it's because it's too loud in the mix being supplied to your inears... not because you are standing too close to the drums. If this indeed the case, I know everything I need to know about your IEMs. They either don't provide any serious attenuation or they are a poor fit. This isn't my opinion. This is fact. Theres guys out there using IEMs in tiny venues every day - and it's arguably better to use them in those type of venues than the stadiums because you will be usually standing a lot close to the drums due to the reduced stage areas. So you tried the Helix instore? I'm glad you had that time to learn the system intimately in order to form a good opinion on how it can work for you. I guarantee that the store would have set it up in it's optimum setting and nobody had messed around with the presets or anything like that too. Likewise, I'm sure your rock and roll ears are a good medium to draw such statements. Should also point out that modelling from the Pod and Eleven Rack is very, very old and not in the same category as the modern offerings from the main players, Helix, Kemper and Axe FX. If I was to blind test you with a Kemper, there is zero chance that you'd be able to tell the difference between the two... even with your golden ears. This isn't me saying this... this is the industry. These great bass players that you talk of - most of them don't. They have roadies. On theatre shows, they will have carriage (this in particular will determine what they choose to use - the truth is, they'll use what ever is the least hassle - they won't even care if it sounds any good or not most of the time). And again, a lot of the time, it's stage dressing... because the audience want to see something on stage, even if the sound isn't coming from it. A lot of these great players ARE using modellers - because they can take their rig with them on a USB stick. It makes it more consistent when the hire stock hasn't got your amp and cab of choice. What you have to remember also, is that a lot of these guys are using the gear because they are either endorsed to do so, ego driven because they want to see their image in the bass rags or because they are dinosaurs. As I've stated, theres nothing wrong with dino gear... but things can be done differently. There is a load of backlash against inears and modellers... and as demonstrated by yourself, those opinions are usually strongest from the people who haven't tried the gear properly. Your inears experience is typical - using the buds you got free with your phone does not count as trying inears in anger. I, along with a load of other guys have been the dinosaurs.... and thats cool... because modelling was pants compared to where it is now. But I kept my eye on the modelling market as I knew that if they got it nailed, thats where we should be... in terms of tone and portability... and safety to our own ears. Im sorry that dinosaurs are insulted by such a label. I kinda get fed up of being called a sound geek. Ah well, this is the snowflakeosaurus generation after all. Right, I'm going to find a corner to cry in because I think somebody accused me of not knowing sh**.

The point is, the tone between a modeller and the real amp has become indistinguishable... especially at gig volumes. Bass through headphones sucks? Are you serious...? It all depends upon the quality of the headphones/IEMs that you are using. Lets have a look at some of the facts here... modern IEMs can go down to 10hz (that's actually lower than you can hear) - and will certainly go lower than the PA systems that are being used when you have gone to watch live bands. The speakers in IEMs are literally a couple of cm away from your ear drum and at that distance are capable of putting out far higher SPL at your ear drum than you could ever imagine compared to the the PA stack. If you want to hear bass, there is no better way. Eleven Rack. Get it sold. Awful stuff. You say that you have sold the Line 6 stuff... was there a Helix in there? Valve amps. Sound better? Historically, absolutely. Now? No difference. I like valve stuff as much as the next guy... but you are kidding yourself if you think that modern technology can't churn out the same tones. Remember, there was as many crap valve amps made as good... and lets not talk about the reliability issues associated with valve amps. And carting them around. And having them sound different in every venue... etc... Here's the thing... when you go to a gig, you aren't actually hearing the raw amp... or speaker... what you are hearing has gone through a mic, through a preamp, through a desk... with infinitely more processing than you could ever hope to have an equivalent of on a traditional amp - before going through the PA amp (probably class D - you know, those things with zero heft) before going out to the front of house. The modeller simply removes the variables - the amp, speaker, environment and mic and gives your the same tone, night in night out without compromise. If you want hard hitting - my PA, I guarantee, will put out more than any bass rig on BC. If you must have the feeling of air, then get a fan... or get a kinetic feedback board, or a subpac... or a woojer... If you want to go deaf, continue as you are and when you got that tinnitus that won't let you sleep at night, ask yourself how much of a happy place your brain is in now. I don't know sh**? Yup. Completely clueless, me.

This just doesn't make any sense at all. Take the amp apart and give it a damn good hoover... and then report back.

Any cab emulation... or not? I actually like bass through PAs without! Give it all the tone shaping I need at the desk.

Thats lovely. Really lovely.

I found the super brights a little disappointing too. I think that people got caught up in the pricing of them when they first came out... I found them spongy. I actually have switched from Hi Beams to Lo Riders. They are basically Hi Beams with higher tension - so they are also worth investigating if you prefer your string tension a little higher.... although if you aren't using a low B, then this may not be as important to you (although having said that, I prefer the higher tension across all my strings)