4 Strings

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1324124142' post='1471007'] I've never heard a bolt-on get much from down there ( looking on a scope) but I have owned a set neck ( my 302) that gave around 50% of it's bottom 'e's level as fundamental and I reckon the Warwick has probably got a fair chunk of 42 hz in there. >>>>Clearly the pickups are able to put that frequency out well. The way the 'wings' interact with the body could be to move with the very low notes to deepen the instrument...Considering a four string with standard tuning can only go to 42hz you COULD build the body with it's wings to have a resonance point near there...Just a thought... [/quote] So a Steinberg, or a Status can have little or no low frequencies. Did you ever see the experiment in Talkbass where someone gave tracks of a guitar with a solid alder body and a bolt on neck and the same pups and strings on a plank of wood found on the floor. No-one could tell which was which. I would love to be convinced that the wings make any sonic difference, I honestly would.

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1324124142' post='1471007'] As regards woods... I can definitely hear the Warwick's tone compared to the Spector. The Spector NS 2000-4 weighs 12 lbs and is dense maple throughout. The Warwick weighs about 9 lbs and is less dense Maple throughout. The Spector is 'toppier' with less depth to the lows. [/quote] Spector also uses different pickups and preamp and has different strings. This is going to mask any subtlety in sound the wood may make, if any.

Exactly, so if the OP can't hear himself, no-one else can be hearing him either.

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1324088767' post='1470822'] Are they sandwiched to prevent resonance.?.. I've always believed they were sandwiched to prevent bending under string load. The laminations go longitudinally and are perpendicular to the fingerboard so they won't stop resonance but they will resist long term stress bending. With a neck-through your 'system' is a closed loop from nut, along the string to the bridge then down through the bridge and back along the one piece wood 'neck' and back to the nut. It's a closed loop tuned system.The wings are then attached to either side with a different density wood strip to allow them to move in sympathy with certain frequencies to further enhance the sustain. With a Fender type instrument, the neck itself has a 'tone' when rapped but the vibes are killed or at least attenuated as the wood gets to the neck/body join so the string vibration is damped and can't get to the bridge with as much energy. It's closer to an open loop system. It's similar with a set neck, unless it's an extra-ordinarily good join...Which is why my Guild 302 and the set neck Gibson basses I've played have a huge punch which decays relatively fast...The join isn't mechanically as good at transferring vibration as a single piece of wood. The dead spot on a Fender neck may well be because the resonant frequency of the neck (which is derived from it's length) is creating a vibration wave which is travelling up the neck to the body join, then returning and the waveform happens to be the same frequency (or a harmonic) of the 4th fret on the 'G' but with the waveform inverted...thus killing the note....Like noise cancelling headphones There are going to be other frets which seem too lively for a similar reason, although those frets are having their waveforms reinforced by the waves bouncing up and down. [/quote] No. the longitudinal sandwich isn't going to resist bending any more than a single piece of wood with similar anti-bending properties. Its the tension in the truss rod which resists the bending. The sandwich is to prevent resonances. Also the bolted construction can be considered to be superior to a set construction in that the bolts draw the neck to the body tight as opposed to being held with glue. In actuality both these will transfer vibrations as there is a large surface area of contact and the joint in both is rigid tight. Gibsons are reknown for their sustain. This is way off the original subject but a perfect bass won't vibrate at all. All vibrations by the body and neck will reduce the vibration of the string which is why its a fallacy that, unplugged, a 'loud' bass is better than a quiet one. The loud one is vibrating in sympathy with the strings and converting these vibrations to sound rather than holding fast and letting the strings vibrate with no sympathetic resonance. Anything moving in sympathy with the string will reduce sustain, not enhance it. Build a bass into the side of a granite cliff and you are approaching perfection! (I would also challenge anyone who says they can hear the difference of different woods used as the wings of a through-neck bass. In fact, those who can hear the difference in woods used anywhere on a bass and, yes, even their construction. My Musicman has sustain which goes on forever. My Jaydee does too. Do I need sustain in a bass? Not really.

Arriving at gigs I almost always receive the following calls: > Keyboard player, 5 mins before we're due to arrive; 'Hi, I'm here' - which means where are you, you're late. > Guitarist 'Hi, I'm here' - which means what do I do now? and, the bit that fits in this thread, > Drummer; 'Hello Sir, how are you?' - which means I'm still 3/4 of an hour away and probably heading the wrong way.

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1324070619' post='1470669'] ... Better than a Music Man, better than a Fender but not a patch on a Streamer unplugged, ...No sustain in comparison...same goes for almost every other bolt neck bass I've tried. That isn't to say there isn't a bolt neck that sounds and feels as good as a Streamer or similar through neck...But I haven't found one yet... [/quote] I wonder that more significant in the sound is the make of the neck itself. Most (all?) neck-throughs are a sandwich construction to avoid resonation and the dreaded dead spots. Most bolt-ons, especially Fenders, are from one piece of wood. They nearly all resonate and have a dead, or at least less lively, spot on the 4th fret of the G. This gives the impression of a lack of sustain and has nothing to do with the neck fixing.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1324067351' post='1470614'] He is saying that he sound of the instrument unaltered, just amplified, does not cut it on recordings. Try it, you'll find out he's right. You have to chuck it through a shitload of stuff to even approach making it sound right in a band mix. [/quote] This, and your earlier comment that without the processing our instruments sound crap, is the point. It was the realisation that through a relatively uncoloured amplification system the sound of my bass was more difficult to live with than the more flattering sound from the previous rig implying that I actually don't like the sound of my favourite musical instrument. The sound has to be processed a long way away from its original sound to be palatable. It made me want to start again with my view on the sound of a bass.

I won't fail to remind the drummer each time we play the track!

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1324049648' post='1470299'] ....Unless of course you are in a covers band whose job is to accurately mimic the tone of the original artist's recordings...Although having been in several cover's bands, you don't need to be THAT close because the likelihood of getting even reasonably close to the recording while playing live is fairly remote. Ultimately it's about the audience and they'll lap it up irrespective of the finer points of instrument tone as long as you are tight, have good timing, and most importantly, having fun up there... [/quote] We've spent hours and hours in our Motown band getting as close to an authentic sound as we can. We love it, not sure how much fruit flavour vodkas whooping women can take and still appreciate the attention to detail!

How about now?

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1323887323' post='1468331'] Since I don't have a car, I simply cannot take the LH1000 to gigs further than walking distance from my house. The MiBass would fit into my gig bag, and I could get a nice 212 or 210, like the Orange, and be sorted for any gig.....Sure it wouldn't look anywhere near as "rock'n'roll", but it would save me a hell of a lot of ballache transporting stuff. [/quote] I have to suggest BF. You can easily walk with one of their speakers in your hand (especially a Midget), use the back strap of your guitar gig bag and if the amp goes in that you have one hand free for the fare. Seriously. I'm really interested in this new wave of affordable, high power Class Ds, especially if they are as good as you describe. I certainly agree tiny bass stacks look crap, they do, there's no getting away from it. For anything other than the lightest jazz we expect a lovely big cab, preferably two stacked, with a suitably sized amp glowing on top. However, this is so impractical I'm surprised its taken so long to come up with alternatives. No doubt there is a group of smuggly smiling bass players with effective and tiny rigs who feel aloof at the sight of a 6ft stack.

Surely if you can't hear yourself no-one else on stage can hear you either. I have the opposite problem, as bass has more omni-directional frequencies (Bill?) it seems everyone can hear me but I never get much of the guitarist from the other side of the drummer nor the keys next to me but with his speaker the opposite side of him. Or I'm playing too loud (is this possible?). Perhaps use the "2x15/4x15/4x10+1x18 etc" as an extension on the other side of the stage. Or play louder.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1323797499' post='1467238'] And it's heavy oil content (which presumably helps deflect moisture) makes it difficult to work with... not to mention it's self-defence properties - it makes me itch like a bastard after I've been working with it all day. [/quote] Doesn't deflect moisture, its just so dense that its heavier than water. Its a remarkable material. Not sure it releases oil to make you itch though. After a couple of weeks it will have shrivelled.

Had a similar experience, lack of space meant my cab went on top of the house system bass bin. Played the evening bemused I was getting away with the bass being so loud! £30 later I had a stand.

Sounds like your singer never hears what you play. Turning up might be a revelation for him!

They're a nicer design, not the result of an American style 'value engineering' exercise. However, not having ever had the opportunity to A-B the bridges I'm pretty sure I would be struggling to tell any sonic difference. The only possible difference can result from the vertical part of the BBOT wavering with the vibration of the string. It's pretty short and stiff.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1323334397' post='1462032'] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]The biggest problem is sudden climate change, for example when you move your gear into a cold car, then into a warm gig and back again after. That's when risk of condensation will be at its highest, not when the gear is left in the car overnight. [/font][/color][/size] [size=4][font=Arial][color=#000000]Who worries about those temperature shifts? Who sets their gear up and switches on immediately? You cause more wear and tear if you do that. You should always let the equipment acclimatise before you start it up. [/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font=Arial][color=#000000]There are many countries that have more extreme climates than we do. The same musical equipment we buy seems to work well in [/color][/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2][color=#000000][size=4]Canada[/size][size=4], eastern Europe and [/size][size=4]Scandinavia and even in places of high humidity, like Hawaii and Australia. [/size][/color][/size][/font] [/quote] Agree, except the acclimatise bit. Do you really let your amp and cab acclimatise? If I'm late (not often!) I'm up and running in less than 2 mins regardless of the weather.

[quote name='janmaat' timestamp='1323898933' post='1468593'] There is a lot of money spent on anything after production - that is, quality control(s), the setting up of the instrument, and on marketing, fewer shops, better service. That probably amounts to more of the price difference than parts & assemblage. [/quote] Is that actually true? What do you mean by 'fewer shops'? Marketing seems, to me, to be the same and Fender service is reknown for being in competition with Microsoft regardless of what side of Arizona. Someone once noted that most of the employees at Corona are Mexican. Of course individual attention in the Custom shop occurs in he US.

I'm non-linear coloured when I get back from my holidays. What does non-linear power handling actually mean?

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1323853642' post='1467685'] Apologies, typo! now edited! That is exactly what I was saying.. not sure how I have been so misread by many! [/quote] Your point was spot on, just the details about car history invited some disagreement.

How about this one, compare with the individual attention given to constructing the Hofner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmZAmyNid9Q&feature=related Fascinating again.

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1323806275' post='1467397'] Indeed, Benz is the 'natural' father of the car. Back on topic, there was a time when MIM Fenders were deliberately inferior in hardware, electrics and used unselected wood (meaning you could get poor quality wood or great tonewood, but no guarantee either way). However they've really upped the quality of Mexican Fenders and even Squiers to the point where there's much more cross-over with the US models. [/quote] I agree, certainly the finish on the Squier models is second to none and many have said that their Squier is their best instrument. There is something unmeasurable about having a bass made where they started, rather than where the labour is cheap. It's up to us whether we want to pay the extra for that.

Hofner videos are incredible, that is mechanised rather mass produced. Chiselling the neck joint by hand! I wonder how old the videos are? You can see that, perhaps, manufacturing them in a country of cheap labour may make a difference to the product and that its possible to have a 'good' one or not so good.

Firstly Cugnot no more invented the car than Trevithick. The first put a steam engine on wheels to draw a cannon, the second did the same to drag coal trucks in a mine, both self propelled but neither related to the car. Also I think Carl Benz is generally seen as the father of the motorcar. Ford pushed the boundaries of mass production. This actually makes your simile more appropriate as Leo's products are phenomenal designs in respect to being so ready for mass production. Anyway I said apart from the cost of labour. If labour (ok, and property values) is the only extra cost is that a good reason to pay the extra?

The bass in the picture is indeed a Mexican Deluxe. Here's a US model; http://www.fender.com/products/americandeluxe/models.php?prodNo=019458 If its the Jazz you're looking for I can tell you a bit; the American Deluxe is a different instrument to the Mexican, it has an additional fret and the body cutaway is deeper to allow better access. This is most easily seen in the three screws along the bottom of the smaller scratchplate to the four screws on a normal Jazz scratchplate. The pickups for the Am Deluxe have changed over the years, not sure if the pre-amp has. I have an early AM Deluxe with the original Suhr pickips (one large magnet per string) and they are very powerful but I can't quite get that classic Jazz bass sound, but that might be me. However they have changed them and I think the current models have Fender pickups. Its a great bass, from the top of the range of Fenders. They also have little luxuries like block markers in the recent versions etc. The Mex Deluxe is equal to it, way cheaper and has the traditional body. My lad is a music student too and he played a Mex deluxe once in a shop and, not having the snobbery of his Dad regarding place of manufacture, set his heart on one. He got a secondhand one from ebay for £300 in superb condition and he could not be more delighted with it. He gets a great Jazz bass sound from it and considers it the perfect bass especially as it has the traditional Jazz bass body. The electronics are, apparently, made in Corona (US). Regarding sound and playability it is at least as good as the Am Deluxe (the lad reckons better), albeit with one less fret! I can recommend either, the other alternative is the Custom Shop version seen around, Seth Govan uses one with terrific effect. It has the standard body and, apparently, the electronics are the same as the Mex and will cost at least a grand more. You can get details here if you're interested; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_American_Deluxe_Series