warwickhunt

"Would anyone know of a commercially available standalone cab that is less wide than your bog standard 19"?" 

The ABM210 compact is either 21" or 24" depending on how you stack or carry it and isn't likely to be any better as a stand alone cab than my present TC RS210!  

6 minutes ago, JPJ said:

Same PA I was using on Saturday 2 x EV ZLX15P tops (nominally 500w 128dB) + 2 x Peavey Messenger Pro 15P bins (nominally 400w unknown spl). 

Ah so you certainly have the option of putting bass through to support your 1x15.  Oddly the doubling up on my TC210s is less of an issue on gigs where we take a PA with bigger tops and a bass bin (or 2) because the backline then is solely for me (and the drummer) to hear; PA does the heavy lifting and other band members have IE options.  This scenario is really only relevant when my backline is carrying to FOH punters without PA support.

7 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I’d be surprised if a single 15 can’t cut it for you. In my other band (the other one to the one you saw on Saturday night 😎) I’m gigging a 1x15 Neo equipped Ashdown combo rated at 400w so probably putting around 200w through the combo speaker and its more than enough, and drummer Alan is no shrinking violet when it comes to clattering his drums. I bought and then sold a 1x15 Ashdown Neo cab to pair with this as I found the combo on its own was more than enough for that band. Mind, I do trickle a bit of bass through the PA too. 

I don't know enough of the science but I'd have thought a single 2x10 (tall) such as the TC would be able to carry in a small venue (such as the Bebby you played on Sat) without PA support; we'll see how it pans out though.    

re. putting a trickle through the PA - what size PA are you putting a trickle through?  I'm not sure there'd be any benefit trying to put it through the QSC K10 speakers with no sub.  

29 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

An interesting problem for you and I'm not sure what you are looking for exists as a commercial product. That in itself is slightly odd as you aren't really looking for anything very extreme or technically impossible.

 

Just to summarise:

 

you find your 2x10 is an ideal speaker in terms of form but they aren't quite 'enough' for the gigs you are playing so not a single cab solution.

You have tried a TC112 but that isn't 'enough' either.

You like a coloured cab with a bit of mid scoop. You aren't keen on the 'Barefaced' sound.

You are finding the majority of 2x12's too bulky and an awkward carry.

 

So technically you can get better efficiency and a louder sound for the same speaker excursion by increasing the cone area of your cabs or by having long throw drivers and increased power handling. Interestingly to me at least is the high tech long throw drivers aren't reall available in a 2x10 format at the moment. The TC's you are using at the moment are really pretty unexceptional designs but neither are many/any of the rest. You've rejected a 2x12 as too bulky so far and most of them are 500mm+ width.  There are some like the Darkglass that are narrower. Of course carrying anything is a mix of physical dimensions/weight and things like the handle position and balance.

 

If you go for more speaker then you are left with a couple of 3x10's or you can draw up your own shorlist of 'portable' 2x12's. I simply don't believe a 2x10 is out there that you would be happy with for volume.

 

I think it might be worth having another look at the 'hi-tech' 12's as there are a feew available. because they use a dedicated bass driver (essentially their own sub) they can be driven much harder and louder. The top end then has to be driven by a horn and they tend to be FRFR but some siple tone shaping by a decent pre amp can soon restore your favourite tone. Because the horns give better dispersion than a large cone you will get to hear more of your own sound. The best of these cabs will go louder than a drummer with the right amp. I don't now why anyone would want to go louder than that as it implies the drummer would be miked up to match you and you therefore have a PA that will also cope with bass. It might be worth asking @stevie if he still has a demo model of his Monaco you can try so you could try it for portability and volume. For me it is my one cab solution and i've sold my second cab as I've never needed one. It's genuinely as loud as any drummer.

 

The only other solution I can suggest is the original Mk1 Barefaced Super Compact with the 15" Eminence driver in it. It is more properly old school sounding than the tweetered cabs which you don't like and a properly lightweight and portable single cab solution.

 

Well summarised but to clarify a couple of things (and expansion on the last point).  In terms of 12" driver derived cabs, I have owned (I might have owned other 12's years ago):

TC RS112 (x2) - compact to the extreme but boxy sounding

Aguilar DB112s - tone I like, manoeuvrability awful

Berg 212 - handles everything but not the tone I'm looking for and I used to blame that on Neo drivers but I realise it is essentially down to design... + it was a little too wide

TKS 112 (x2) - very light easily manoeuvred but they had that tone which I attributed to 'neo' or lack of cab colouration

Tech Soundsystem and Schroder 212 - essentially the same design which had excellent dispersal but in certain rooms almost honky/nasal + handles on the side made it awkward

Genz Benz 212 NeoX - a loud upfront cab which seemed to be less sterile but not quite right and even after I fitted spring loaded side handles it was awful to manoeuvre.  

Of these cabs I've owned I've established the larger heavier cabs tend to have a baked in tone which I like and I've yet to be able to EQ an amp (of which I've owned some very good ones) to get the same tone from featherweight cabs.  NOW... that does lead itself to the point that if I'm going through the PA then the tone of the cab that I am hearing is not the same as punters BUT I am wanting the tone I hear to be pleasing to 'me' which is probably why I don't get on with IEM... does that make sense?  

The drummer is a firm/hard hitter and his kick is invariably mic'd even in small venues. 

The TC RS210 cabs have a form I like (weight is about as much as I'd like but I could take a kilo or 2 more), they sound right for me BUT I have that issue of 1 isn't quite enough in some venues when we have downsized PA (to QSC K10s) but 2 cabs seems almost too much.  Don't get me wrong, I'm only talking about me maybe walking a few hundred extra meters, up/down some stairs 'occasionally' but I'd like to establish if there is a single cab solution right for me.  As you say it isn't a big ask and Ashdown's 310 isn't such a bad idea as a solo cab. 

The final point re. BF 1x15 - I do also own a TKS 115H (under the Aguilars in the pic) which is a very small, light 15" that can be carried 1 handed (14kg top mount handle) and I actually like the sound of it.  I rarely gig it on its own due to 'my perception' that it can't cut it as a solo cab as opposed to the pair of TC 210 cabs (a single TC210 at certain gigs tends to not project and I have tried to elevate it or position to get the most from the room positioning).  However, that is my perception and I've not tested it in anger so to speak... but I am going to this weekend.  I've asked the lads in the band and someone coming along to the gig to see us (who I trust as a musician) to give me an honest appraisal about it's ability to project the bass without PA support (small venue).  Their views on the tone aren't my primary concern (so long as it doesn't sound awful) as I'll judge that for myself.  It could be that I already own the answer to my problem but I've avoided it as I can't imagine a single 15" being able to do more than the 2x10" and almost as much as the pair of 210s.

This was me trying to test a few scenario out recently (I took each rig out to different gigs)... certain cabs are now gone as I eliminated them after trialling in different settings.

Apologies for the long winded reply @Phil Starr but I'm putting stuff down as I analyse it in my head on the hoof.  LOL

Gawd, I go out of my way NOT to play this.    

It is down to your musical tastes and the circles you move in but it's a staple of a lot of pub rock bands... not many of whom actually carry it off very well. 

3 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

https://www.eich-amps.com/212s

 

Maybe?

@pete.young suggested the same and it is certainly something I'd investigate but I do need to try first unless I could find a used one that was cheap enough to gamble on.  

9 hours ago, Hellzero said:

By the way, there are these 2 GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon 210V in the ads: 

 

Sadly couldn't be more further away in the UK from me and I'd really need to try something like the GR cabs before buying.   

Not a bad shout!  I actually use a Tech Soundsystems (now Eich) Blackcat amp and I've used their cabs in the past.  Maybe I need to see if I can find one of these modern versions to try out.

4 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

I too use the 2x10 format, Acme B2 three way, Stacked verticaly on their ends for a vertical 4x10 they are superb. Truthfully I don't see the point in a larger single cabinet. They are more clumsy to tote around and only save one trip each way.  

I think that is the thing I'm trying to achieve, I don't want a single cabinet that is larger than my pair of vertical 210s; I want a vertical narrow cab that just has a bit more welly than a single 2x10.  I suppose it needs to be a narrow 3x10 (i.e. not Epifani or BF as they have staggered drivers which makes a cab wider than I like) or possibly a 2x12 which isn't as heavy as say the TC RS212.  Saving one trip isn't a big deal for many of my gigs but why take 2 cabs to a gig if 1 will do?    

Those GR cabs look neat and tidy but defo something that I'd want to try first before parting with cash.  

13 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Oops, I completely forgot that there are also the TC Electronic RS210 and 212 cabinets.

 

They are narrow and compact, but a bit heavy compared to GR Bass or Barefaced.

See my OP - I use the 210 now. 

I suppose 'colouration' comes from all stages of the signal chain but of the cabs that I have liked in the past, I'm assured they are coloured.

Laney digbeth - again over 19" wide and the 410 is even wider.  

Not heard of the Revsound but dimensions are good, just a shame there are non to trial re voicing.    

https://www.revsound.net/collections/bass-cabinets/products/rs212-bass-cabinet

edit - actually that side mounted strap handle would drive me mad!  LOL

13 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

@warwickhunt : Why don't you use the 30 days return offered by the usual suspects?

 

If you can afford a new cab, and your location doesn't allow you to test it in a store, I think it's the best option.

 

Just an idea.

I'm aware that Alex does the 30 days but his 3x10 cab is too wide; I've also trialled BF cabs in the past and they weren't to my taste... I like colouration!    

Afaik Bass Direct don't offer 30 day returns unless there is a fault.

I posted in the hope that there might be something quite mainstream that I missed/forgot, which I could search out but it's no big deal if I have to keep carrying the pair of 2x10.  On some gigs I do have the option of a one-handed carry of my TKS H115 which is only about 14kg but I 'ideally' want a single cab that will do all things without being too weighty.  The GR slim is now defo on a list but I really need to hear it in a live setting to see how it works for me.  

Thanks for the suggestions so far.   

2 minutes ago, Gypsyfolk said:

Barefaced 310, looks ideal for a 1 cab solution. I don’t do loud bands anymore but I would like the speakers a bit closer to my lug holes. Barefaced are pricey mind and it will be a while until 310 make an appearance on the second hand market. Does anyone know if they sorted their tolex peal issues?

A bit of a wasted exercise 'for me' as it is still 19" wide... I imagine it continues to be a sad throw back to the aesthetic of 19" rack amps sitting on top of cabs.  I don't want anything that wide as it is just awkward to carry.

I'm certain these cabs are great (their pedigree guarantees it) and they would be a good personal monitor if that was their only job (I have a QSC K10 for that job) but I should have said in my OP I do need to use my backline sometimes as FOH bass.  I've owned lots of cabs and have enough real world experience to know that a 1x10 or 12 will not cut it on the occasions I'm required to use my backline for front of house. 

Lovely cabs though. 

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Don't carry your 210 cabs. Put them on a hand cart.

For many of the to/from locations I play, I can imagine I'd be carrying my 210 AND a hand cart for 50% of the journey.    

Don't get me wrong, I can carry my present 210 cab reasonably easily (I have a couple bogey gigs with horrible stairwells inc external ones) but gigs generally result in me doing 2 trips for the cabs... not the end of the world and if nothing bests them, I'll continue to do so.  However, if there were a slim/narrow cab that could do it all in one manageable unit, then I'm onto a winner.  

Oh and I've trialled IEM and they are 'OK' but not my first (or second) choice.  However I do an occasional gig where backline is impractical and I will use IE.

@Lozz196 - I did check out the Ashdown 310 but it seemed quite weighty for what it is but it is on the radar. 

@Hellzero - It's a shame I'm located nowhere near anyone who stocks these cabs, as they likely tick the boxes but with these uber light types I'd defo need to try before buy.  

Would anyone know of a commercially available standalone cab that is less wide than your bog standard 19"?  I'm not talking about a 1x10; it needs to be capable of handling bass duties in a reasonably loud rock band.

I'm aware of the TC RS range as I presently have a pair of the 210 cabs BUT I invariably need to take both cabs and I'm looking for a one-cab solution which is as slim as these... and I find their 212 just too chunky.  I love the width of their cabs as I have a pet peeve that carrying wide cabs by yourself invariably means you have a job negotiating through doors and up stairwells.  I have tried the TC RS112 but the tone just doesn't work for me.  

2 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

.....and now its dissapeared! 🤔🤣

Either fake or someone made them an offer they couldn't refuse!  

23 hours ago, JPJ said:

Where we’re at is backline levels equal to acoustic drums. Drummer, singer/guitarist, fiddle player all use IEM to help them hear their instrument/voice clearer. Second guitarist/bv uses a floor wedge. I vary between backline only, hearing protection (ACS custom moulds) or IEM (Sennheiser 100’s and Xvive U4) depending on the gig. If the room means drums and particularly the cymbals are painfully loud then I’ll go either ACS or IEM. But as I mix the live sound from the side of the stage, I’m always nervous about going IEM and potentially missing something with the FOH mix. If we have the luxury of provided PA and engineer, then I’ll go IEM every time.

...and tonight's set up will be? 

Images require downloads and video extensions.

6 minutes ago, andyhaines said:

I'm keeping an eye on this - seller has 0 sells/purchases and it seems a very low price to start such a rare bass. Seems too good to be true...

...and the classic location!    

21 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

You'll get tired of carrying them in the end and they are completely over the top but if you are young and fit enough then that's a whole lot of fun for £150 and you'll have change for some good earplugs

Only having done this (many times) can we give out this advice... safe in the knowledge it will be ignored!    

The bit about the earplugs can never be under emphasised.  

1 hour ago, Nos said:

Thanks - that’s really useful and something to look out for.

Having looked at what’s about and hearing about different neck widths, I’m thinking of trying to find a few to play first as well as considering some of the new China made ones and not rush into buying anything yet.

You are talking miles apart in quality and price if you are comparing 90's German made basses with 'new' Chinese models!  

Sansamp (to add a 'little' drive) > Fishman Plat Pro (HPF / Comp / Tuner) > DI from Fishman goes to PA + line out to a Rolls device to have a direct mix of my bass from the pedals + an Aux from the desk with everything else.