Baloney Balderdash

Those pickups are indeed absolutely amazing. I got one of those in my regular 34" Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic, which was my very first bass ever, that I still own. Though mine is in the middle position, like the one linked to (as I don't know how to include multiple quotes from different pages of a thread in one single reply). I believe they are actually full regular humbuckers in the sense that the 2 parallel coils, connected in series, go the full length of the pickups, but then only got pole pieces on one half of each coil, arranged opposite to each, that is a pair of of dual pole pieces, one pole piece on each side of each string, on respectively low E and A string for one coil, and high D and G string for the other coil, just like a reverse P pickup. Not 100% sure, but think they are steel pole pieces, with a ceramic bar magnet underneath them, on the bottom of the pickups. It also features larger than standard pole pieces, as well as the top of the pickup is arced, following the fretboard radius for a more even output across strings. I'd wish someone would make a clone of this pickup, it is truly spectacular sounding. Super punchy and muscular, but at the same time really well defined, articulate and clear sounding (and that is all passive, which I actually prefer, even if my bass actually has got a build in active preamp). Kind of like a hi-fi (without for that reason sounding polite or sterile in any possible way, just in the sense of sounding very well balanced, defined, articulate and clear sounding) P pickup on steroids.

Leonard Cohen cover by Jeff Buckley There's a blaze of light in every word It doesn't matter which you heard The holy or the broken Hallelujah And even though it all went wrong I'll stand before the Lord of Song With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah

Ah, of course! Thank you! Yeah, I never understood why anyone would have their high D and G string sound even thinner, and the low E and D string to sound even more boomy in comparison. But then again it is a known fact that Leo Fender liked to be contrary and do stuff the complete opposite way of everyone else, P pickup orientation defying logic and common sense, insisting on calling vibrato tremolo and tremolo vibrato e.t.c. And having huge success doing so I guess no one dared to question it and just mindlessly proceeded copying what he did.

Is this some sort of riddle?

Thank you Captain Obvious. Yes, and Coca Cola Light is a scam, it isn't actually any lighter but weights exactly the same as a normal one! Noticed how I put "amp-less" in brackets? This is what you call an "amp-less" setup even if in strictly literal terms it isn't (hence the brackets), and I don't think anyone is mislead here to think it actually is or claiming that it is for that matter. As I stated in my OP the obvious advantage of such a setup, beside usually being a lot lighter and easier/more practical to transport, is that you sound more or less exactly the same whether you are practicing at home with a good set a studio grade (here meaning approximately flat response) headphones, DI'ed on recordings, at band rehearsals through a PA or FRFR cab, or through a given venue's PA live, that is to say consistency of tone, and that you can actually count on the settings you dialed in on eventual additional gear/effects at home wearing headphones, at least largely (that is that there it is not going to be a day and night difference and most likely only relatively minor additional tweaks needs being made to make it work wherever).

I swapped the neck from my Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass to the body of my GSRM20B Mikro Bass, pulled out the stock pickups, and installed just a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, filling out the empty bridge J pickup cavity with a folded piece of black cardboard, removed the barrel type side mounted output jack socket, installing a regular front mounted jack socket in one of the redundant pot holes instead, and added some transparent and black lampshade knobs to the 2 remaining pots for shows, though I later cut out pieces of green electrical tape to size and stuck it to the top of those knobs, the pickup top getting red electrical tape applied, as well as I applied some small Sherman Filterbank 2 stickers to the headstock, and a Jack Skellington skull sticker to the upper left (right I guess from the perspective of the bass) corner of the bass body : I do ponder on swapping out the stock bridge for 4 milled out solid brass mono rail bridge pieces as well, maybe in the same instance narrow in the string spacing slightly, from the current standard 19mm, to perhaps 17.5mm. The name is "Bottomfeeder", by the way, "Dud Bottomfeeder", secret agent 666.

So I was thinking if there is a pick that specifically approximate the sound of double thumbing (that specific more sort of somewhat subtle slap/pop -esque and soft click like, if that makes sense, compared to regular finger picking, sound)? I was thinking one of the Wedgie Rubber Picks might get close, but if this assumption is true which of them would then get closest, the soft, medium or hard rubber one, and which gauge, the 3.1mm one or the 5mm one? And if my assumption is not right which pick then, if any, would do this?

EHX Tri Parallel Mixer :

Edit!!!: Original reply deleted. Made a couple of changes in my setup and posted the second incarnation of that setup here, however I revisited the setup once again, which I am pretty certain will be the final one (at least for a foreseeable future), and decided to instead just update the OP.

How about 6 string fretless! : And not just for shows either!

Danish band Monoton :

I can warmly recommend the 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 or GSRM20B Mikro Bass. Truly amazing instrument for the price, though you might want to swap out the pickups for some better higher quality ones to your preferences. And the GSRM20B Mirko Bass in Weathered Black finish looks pretty astonishing too:

Beige Floyd Known from albums such as: "Piper at the Gates of Beige" "A Saucerful Full of Beige" "Obscured by Beige" "Beige Side of the Moon" "Wish You Were Beige" So, so you think you can tell Heaven from beige? Beige skies from pain? Can you tell a beige field From a beige steel rail? A smile from beige? Do you think you can tell? Did they get you to trade Your heroes for beige? Hot ashes for beige? Hot air for a beige breeze? Cold comfort for beige? Did you exchange A walk-on part in beige For a leading role in beige? How I wish, how I wish you were beige We're just two beige souls Swimming in beige Year after year Running over the same old beige What have we found? The same old beige Wish you were beige

Little known, but absolutely true, fact : Cliff Burton recorded the bass track for "Master of Puppets" with finger puppets of respectively James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich and Kirk Hammett, but strangely enough looking remarkably similar to how they did in their "Load" phase, placed on the tuning pegs of his bass, and with the low E string tuning peg being equipped with a finger puppet of the Grim Reaper himself. He was truly prophetic like that. Though the conspiracy theory goes that it was actually really part of a black magic ritual that he performed to place a curse on Metalica, sacrificing his own life as part of the deal, and as an evil ironic stroke of genius using James Hetfield's own words against him, basically having James unknowingly chant the incantation sealing the ritual to the doom of his own, as well as Lars's and Kirk's, creativity :

Maybe a sudden realization that if you don't have sufficient fine motor skills to control how deep your fingers dig into the strings, then you might have some issues, beyond what a ramp attached to the body of your bass under the strings can fix, that needs medical attention.

So I've been curious about the DiMarzio DP127 Split P P pickup, which basically consists of two individual fully humbucking halves. However from what I can read out of the tone chart DiMarzio provides for it, have read elsewhere, and judging from YouTube demo videos I've watched/listened to featuring this pickup, it is way too boomy and bassy for my liking. However this is all with the premise of wiring the two humbucking halves in series with each other (how DiMarzio intended it, and how apparently everyone else are wiring up this pickup), like you would the two regular single coil halves of a regular P pickup. So I was thinking how about connecting those two already humbucking halves in parallel with each other instead, in theory that should result in less low end and more high end. The issue however is that I can't find any demos or even just talk about this. Sure I can't be the first one to come up with this idea? For reference this is how the pickup looks, two halves each with two parallel coils with one blade/rail per coil, the two coils of each half respectively connected in series internally: And with an output listed as about 70% higher than a Model P and a DC resistance of just above 19 kOhm, that is when the two halves are connected in series with each other, it ought to work perfectly fine with the two halves connected in parallel instead without getting too weak. https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/p-bass-hum-canceling/split-p

Notice how it pulled the low E string up the tuner post, and how hazardous the string break angle is at the headstock for the two higher strings going under the string retainer. Also how will that plastic hold up with the metal strings being pressed and rubbed against it when you first start playing? And finally I'd like to be able to play above 12th fret. All in all this seems like a novelty item, only really maybe useful for people who perhaps would like to try out fretless bass before committing to having to buy one, but not much more. It would have to be cheap for it to be worthwhile for sure. Also I don't even own a jazz bass, and getting one just for the sake of being able to use this kind of defeats the whole point with this thing in the first place. I do really like the idea/concept though, I'd even go as far as to say it is pretty genius, but I just don't feel that it really work properly in this form, and that someone would need to find the solution to some of the obvious issues this version of the concept got before it would really be a viable worthwhile finished product.

Most recent picture of my beloved, just 28.6" scale, Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass, that I named "Dud Bottomfeeder". Swapped the DiMarzio Model P P pickup back to the EMG Geezer Butler P pickup I previously had installed in it, connected directly to the output jack socket, as well as I added a Jack Skellington skull sticker and some colored electrical tape (also known as insulation tape). At the moment strung with regular D'Addario XL nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core string of the gauges .095 - .072 - .054 - . 040 (the two middle ones actually being guitar strings, threaded through the cut off ball ends of old bass strings to not fall through the bridge mounting string holes), for an almost perfectly tension balanced set, and tuned in regular E standard tuning. Edit!!!: In the meantime I decided to tune it to tenor bass tuning, or rather 1 half step above regular tenor bass tuning, that is A# standard tuning, right between regular 4 string bass E1 standard tuning and regular guitar E2 standard tuning, or as 1 half step above the upper 4 strings of a 6 string bass. Strung with Elixir Nanoweb guitar strings of the gauges .068 - .052 - .038 - .028, again as close to perfectly tension balanced as I could get with the single string gauges available. And I love it! After a lot of experimenting with both different strings and tunings, this really seems like this is the ideal string and tuning choice for this instrument. Naturally does require its own unique approach to playing and writing music on it that is neither identical with traditionally bass or traditional guitar, but that again opens up some unique possibilities as well.

I use the bigger version of the ART tube preamp, the Tube MP Project Series, which got a build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz -12dB/Oct, perfect for bass, which I also make use of, and am overall really satisfied with this preamp. Both that and the smaller version does however utilize a starved tube plate voltage, I've read about someone having measured it to 70V, whereas preamp tubes typically originally being designed to work optimally at around 200V to 300V plate voltage. However optimally here meaning optimally accordingly to the original functionality of tubes in tube based units, where you originally would want as little coloration of distortion from the tubes as possible (they weren't originally designed to work for overdrive/distortion in amplifiers), and contrary to common misconception tubes operating at starved plate voltage actually will color the signal passed through them more, not less, and will require less gain to break up/overdrive than tubes run at the kind of plate voltage they were originally designed to work optimally at, however they will do so in a slightly different way, in comparison generating more odd order harmonic content and also compress in a slightly different way. Personally I really like what this preamp does though, and I do have another tube equipped unit, the EHX Black Finger, stacked into it, that functions both as a light optical compressor and as a tube preamp stage as well, and the 2 preamp tubes that this pedal features does operate at proper high 300V plate voltage.

The Dunlop Max Grip .060mm Nylon is indeed the exact same standard size as the regular Dunlop USA Nylon .60mm pick, however for some strange reason it actually feels thicker than the regular one, it certainly is stiffer, somewhere in between the regular Nylon .60mm and the Nylon .73mm in terms of flexibility, same goes for the Max Grip .73mm which is also stiffer than the regular Nylon .73mm one. I've found the regular USA Nylon .73mm perfect for me, the .60mm get's too floppy for my taste and I feel like starting to loose some control, articulation and speed using it. Also the grip surface on the Max Grip picks annoys me, as it prevent me from manipulating and adjusting the pick between my fingers as I play according to what is needed, also prevents me swiftly to correct my grip if I loose it, got plenty of grip from the regular ones.

First of all not sure whether this should really had been in the "Effects" sub from instead, but anyway this is the thread for posting and discussing "amp-less" setups, pictures, signal chain listing/description, and as as said discussion, all welcome. EDIT!!: This is getting silly, but I revisited my setup once more, so I deleted the original post and instead described my current setup, which I am pretty certain will be the final incarnation (or at least for now and for a foreseeable future). Mine is fairly complex because I by choice do not really use a dedicated bass preamp and cab simulator, but rather have these functions covered by a selection of multiple gain and EQ stages, which has the advantage of giving me much more flexibility in terms of tone building while still predominantly keeping it analog (in my case all analog except for the reverb and faux, EQ based, cab sim). However I am in the process of completely rearranging my pedal setup/board from scratch, because I recently went back to mainly playing my 4 string bass, tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E1 standard tuning), played mainly using various finger picking techniques, rather than my Harley Benton GuitarBass, which is a take on the Fender Bass VI concept, also tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 10 half steps bellow regular guitar E2 standard tuning), played mainly using pick, and with an always on 1 octave up effect (using a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini pedal for an effect somewhat similar to that of a 12 string guitar/8 string bass. Same is used for this new setup, but not as an always on effect, and using somewhat different settings, for one the 1 octave up effect is not quite as prominent, being dialed in a couple of dB lower, as well as there is a slight difference in the octave up output EQ of the Toneprint used), so can't really post any pictures at this point, but here's a signal chain description of the always on part that creates my core basic "clean" tone, the actual "amp-less" setup so to speak, which I at this point have put together and tested to the point where I am fairly certain that this is how it will actually also end up : Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (with the stock P + J pickup pulled out and replaced for a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, tuned in F# standard tuning, that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, and strung with regular Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036) ->> As the very first thing in the chain, right after the bass : ->> Mosky XP Booster (Xotic XP Booster V1 clone, run at 18V with both internal dip switches disengaged, which results in a slight bass/low mids boost, and beside that also adding saturation, emphasing and adding harmonic content, as well as altering the phase of certain frequency areas of the signal, all in all, giving a sense of extra depth, or extra, 3D, dimension if you will, to the tone) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> (empty effects loop used as clean/dry signal mix) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo American Sound (all analog emulation of a Fender amp style preamp/drive, dialed in with an about +3dB pre gain stage boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 800Hz, then a post gain stage about +2dB boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 400Hz, and finally an about -1dB cut to a wide curve around the center frequency 3.2kHz (looks like a Q value of about 1 or so to me for all of these EQ controls), and gain dialed in to just around the verge of the breakup point, also includes an analog filter meant to emulate a cab's high frequency roll off, basically just being a steep about 6kHz or so LPF, as well as there is a, much much lesser, slight roll off bellow about 50Hz or so *), always mixed with clean/dry {Mosky XP Booster} signal from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Then as the very last thing in the signal chain, before the poweramp and FRFR PA speaker : ->> Zoom B1Xon (acting mainly as my main reverb unit, having a very subtle plate reverb stacked into a subtle spring reverb as part of my basic "clean" tone, but additionally also functioning as a simple faux, EQ based, cab sim, utilizing a dual band parametric equalizer model, set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], approximately mimicking a LPF set @ 3.6kHz -12dB/Oct, added after the main reverb, as well as to every other patch used on this unit) ->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to deliver a very mild compression, which due to the fact that it compresses the high end slightly more than the low end also effectively boosts the low end slightly, the tubes driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with the build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz -12dB/Oct, engaged, and the tube driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings // : // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15" woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice ->> The Mix Mix 502 (mixer) ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) // *) Frequency response of Joyo American Sound : https://www.tdpri.com/threads/joyo-american-vs-tech21-blonde-comparison-many-graphs.786013/ This gives me a very realistic/authentic, just around the breakup point, bass tube amp like response and tone, but while not being too obstructive to and letting the natural tone of my bass shine through, regardless of whether I use it at home, practicing though a headphones preamp and my studio grade (just meaning FRFR) headphone, record the bass DI'ed through it, run it into a power amp and a FRFR speaker/cab/PA at band rehearsal, or though a venue's PA system at gigs, which to me is exactly the greatest advantage of utilizing an "amp-less" setup, consistence of tone. The higher tuning of the bass allows for lower gauge strings which again makes it possible to obtain some of that harmonically rich piano like tone, otherwise not possible to obtain with the thick gauge strings that a regular E standard tuning would require on the just 28.6" scale length of this bass, beside also actually being better suited for the more melodic/riff based playing that I utilizes it for, that is in the context of bass and drums duo, as well as jamming just with a drummer (F# standard tuning actually being the traditional upright acoustic bass tuning used for bass solo pieces in classical music). For reference this was how my pedal board looked before this rearrangement, used for my Harley Benton GuitarBass : Also if weight is no issue I can warmly recommend the budget The Box PA 502, 300W passive PA speaker, for use as a FRFR speaker/cab, really amazing tone, very neutral faithful recreation of whatever you feed it with, and with an outstanding low end frequency response (better even than most higher end passive PA speakers), that both reproduces the low end of my bass/rig and sounds better than my much more expensive SWR 15" + 10" + Tweeter Horn dedicated bass cab. !!! Edit 2/Update !!! : Still haven't got around completely rearranging my big main board, but I got a NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI (NBP-5) in the meantime, and pretty sure following is how the core of my "amp-less" setup is going to look going forward: !!! Update 3 !!!: Yet another rendition:

I love my Valeton Aquaflow Vintage Chorus, which to my knowledge is just about the only budget pedal ever made based on the legendary Boss CE-1 chorus circuit. It sounds amazing, but unfortunately is was discontinued a couple of years back, but you might still be lucky to find a used one for cheap. Otherwise the EHX Bass Clone is pretty amazing as well, or if you don't need a super lush wobbly chorus, it's hard to beat the amazing, but relatively subtle, aethereal shimmering chorus effect of the Boss DC-2w, or if on a budget the great TC Electronic Third Dimension Chorus clone of it. The Valeton Boss CE-1 based chorus kind of sit in between those two, it can get super lush, but don't really get super wobbly like the Bass Clone does on more prominent chorus settings, but rather maintain some of that aethereal shimmering quality of the DC-2 and the TC Electronic clone, even on more prominent settings.