High score

[quote name='gafbass02' post='497836' date='May 26 2009, 10:39 AM']I guess one important pre gig ritual I've stuck to since 17 is offer to buy the soundguy a beer![/quote] Hey Si, I could work with this guy - no problem

[quote name='Deep Thought' post='494699' date='May 21 2009, 10:08 PM']Many thanks to all, especially High Score-exactly what I was after, and much food for thought.[/quote] Shucks Deep Thought I'm blushing but thanks ...........like I said previously, if you want info on desk setup etc I'm happy to help............

[quote name='OldGit' post='494602' date='May 21 2009, 07:54 PM']We've got a wedding celebration in September in a big gig venue in Bristol with a 15K FoH setup installed. Sadly there's no mixers or anything so we've got to plug our normal setup into it for a little more ooomp .... As we use a 300 watt FoH normally it maybe slightly different. I'm just hoping we can turn it down low enough Re Passive speaker setups for a small PA: We use a Yamaha mixer amp (and a mackie 12 channel plugged into that as well to give us about 18 channels) with a couple of EV200's. When we got them and the Yamaha they did indeed transform the sound from our previous no name setup however if I was starting now I'd got for powered speakers like the Mackie or RCF's as the quality and upgradability of it is superior and you can use them in other ways like daisy chained monitors, one box disco solutions with an iPod or whatever, practice amps, small gig bass amps etc.. Oh and they have cool blue lights too Re Barefaced stage monitors, I think you'd sell more small monitors than 15 inch ones .. They just take up too much real estate for pub bands. An outstanding powered ten inch would be great for us. We currently use a no name powered 10, a mackie350 for the drummer plus some passives. Re one box Barefaced PA speakers: How would you get the highs to the ears of the people at the back? I'm a numpty but I know if we don't hoist our cabs up to head height plus a foot or two then the highs and clarity disappears into the front row of punters ... if you needed the bins to be on the floor that would be a problem wouldn't it?[/quote] Hello Si, Oooo you getting let loose on a big rig then fella?? Enjoy - you'll love it........all that power to play with.............. . Doesn't matter about their desk - yours will control it just as easily so long as you remember that using a sub mixer set up like yours can add to ''signal noise'' which may be noticable at high levels............. just be aware that high output also means any little cock ups in playing are also high lighted !! Blue Mackie lights? look fab but the little buggers have a rep for blowing. Cos they are mounted on a a mini pcb, cost £70 a pop to get the repair shop to fix it!! You are quite correct about the height of the tops. Bass lends itself to being on the floor and will sound ''fuller'' because of it. In addition, mids/ tops really should be just above audience head height otherwise clarity gets pretty lost for those behind the front row who will get blasted. That was the issue with the Mackie 1232 columns I used and invariably had them standing on the 18'' subs if there was no stage or platform available Iain

[quote name='alexclaber' post='494365' date='May 21 2009, 03:37 PM']My Big Series cabs are basically designed like high-quality PA speakers, just minus the tweeter. For PA use I'd be inclined towards making the box taller and narrower so it's less visually obtrusive and that would allow me to vertically align the mid and tweeter. Would probably use a different midrange speaker which has a bit more output where it would be needed and then a full crossover to the tweeter (the midrange I use in the Big Series goes higher and remains good off-axis remarkably high up but in a PA cab the tweeter would be doing everything up there). Weight-wise could definitely come in under 55lbs or 25kg. Would best be used with an amp that can give each cab 1000W+ (personally I see little point in running many PAs in stereo, so you could bridge a relatively cheap amp into the pair). I suppose one could do a pair for about £1500, so about £2000 with an amp. My other thinking is to do a smaller main/monitor, again using a 15" so it's loud and can do good bottom, but will go less thunderously low so you'd want subs for bigger gigs. That would be about the size of the Compact and could also be used as a wedge monitor. Wouldn't be much cheaper though. Having heard the pleasure of a 3-way design I think it's well worth making PA cabs like this, particularly for smaller venues where the acoustics are more challenging and hardly anyone is on-axis. For larger venues I'd lean towards 1.4"-2" compression drivers on big horns and high output midwoofers in 2-way biamped cabs as really wide dispersion isn't so beneficial. I keep looking into amp modules but at the moment the best price/performance is definitely from outboard amps - also looking into designs where amp and cab are a complete system and use DSP driving bi/tri-amped designs. Alex[/quote] Projected prices are not unreasonable if you consider Mackie C300 passive tops are now around £800 a pair alone. Allegedly full range but we both know they are really suited to mids/ highs. I especially like the thought of a dedicated monitor that will give true low end performance. I've often found this unsatisfactory on stage when doing live sound to be honest and even supplied one band with a small 15'' powered sub and srm450 top as it didn't truly recreate the whole sound on it's own - especially when effects were used. Bass players invariably use their own backline as monitor which I feel creates it's own problems. Were you planning onboard amp design? Can you buy modules off the shelf? On board cross over? I remember doing a gig in Bolton where I piggy backed the house gear with mine creating a 20K monster. The house PA was three way - obviously suited to static installation but the sound was staggering and positively hurt the audience if they got too close!!. Iain

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='494300' date='May 21 2009, 02:38 PM']I didn't know that - what should I be looking for, and where?[/quote] there are others but have a look here: [url="http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?type=90&cat=13&id=138"]http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?ty...t=13&id=138[/url] hope this helps - used ART gear before and like it.............

[quote name='alexclaber' post='494177' date='May 21 2009, 01:00 PM'] One thing I have pondered is doing a large PA cab based around the Big One - so a 15" high-excursion woofer, high output 6.5" mid and then a nice compression tweeter. It wouldn't be small but would still weigh in at under 50lbs so very manageable and you could put a pair on short-ish stands and play a pretty large gig (the kind that would normally demand decent 1x12" tops and a couple of decent subs) with just a pair of cabs, no subs. As someone that's gigged with a Big One and has a feel for its size and output, what do you think of that? Alex[/quote] This type of full range kit already exists but tends to be floor standing and getting into 60kg a speaker. I have used mackie versions and they have awesome high powered output but don't mix well with other gear suffering frequency overlap if speakers were too close to them leading to signal cancellation. Do you think you could achieve the weights you quote though?? You explored pa build already Alex?

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='494159' date='May 21 2009, 12:43 PM']We're a 5-piece playing pub gigs............. Earlier posts on this thread about ownership of / responsibility for the PA are spot on, which is why I insist on actually owning the damned thing. Everyone acts as if it's my job to bring it and set it up, get rid of the feedback and sort the cables, etc., so I might as well be using my own kit. What always tickles me is that my PA 'expertise' (bwa ha ha ha) has led the rest of the band to see me as the techie of the group. Those of you familiar with my technical abilities can stop sniggering now ...[/quote] You are so right - no one loves PA gear unless they own it!! It seems to scare a lot of people off as being too complex......... To be honest, that is how I ended up doing sound in a much bigger way. I initially ''inherited'' the desk and gear and found I was sad enough to enjoy sitting in darkened corners surrounded by flashing lights .................sad or what??? By the way, you can get a small, dual box that will allow two mics to be linked into one xlr..........

[quote name='alexclaber' post='493928' date='May 21 2009, 08:25 AM']I shall be following this with great interest! Intially I'm working on a lightweight 3-way PA main that should be potent enough to handle the whole mix for smaller gigs without subs and still have solid bottom. Be interesting to find out how many bands own their own PA, how large it is, and what it cost! Alex[/quote] Hi Alex, I was the sound man for a Rush tribute band at one time. If you check out my old ''Mackie PA For Sale'' thread on the site, the list shown supports a 6K rig and would cost me around £15K at current prices.

[quote name='Deep Thought' post='493874' date='May 21 2009, 12:49 AM']Our 'fifth Beatle' or fourth Missile Man, a DJ who lends us his PA, hasn't in any way started denying us its use, and is as helpful as ever. However he has changed his tune from 'use mine whenever you like, and I'll be offended if you even think of buying your own' to not sounding at all put out when I mentioned we were thinking of buying our own the other day. This makes us think it's about time we started thinking seriously about getting our own. We're not exactly overburdened with gigs or money, and the system we've been using is a 400Watt Peavey with a couple of all in one speakers and a pair of floor monitors. It's done us fine so far for pub gigs, and we're probably looking at a similar setup to buy. We only use it for vocals, we don't put anything through it. I'm the singer, and I'll probably end up storing and transporting it, and I only just manage to fit it all in with my bass kit at the moment, so we don't want much more. Any recommendations for manufacturers, outlets or things to avoid? I like Peavey stuff, especially the older kit, but anybody else have any others they like?[/quote] First, apologies if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here - I don't know how much experience you have with pa gear so have assumed it is limited Like some of the other guys on the site, I've been around live sound for a bit and OldGit suggested I might put my tuppence worth in here. I have used Mackie extensively for my own rig but also been exposed to most of the main mid to upper priced gear and to be honest there are no bad ones cos the market is too competetive. I've deliberately considered branded gear you will recognise that is highly functional but will last the course if looked after and may be integrated later as an upgrade. For your current vocal needs, I would recommend you look for a pa kit that will output a minimum 400w [u]per side [/u]if you want to be heard clearly. You may not really need it but it provides a bit of headroom without stressing the gear when your band mates crank it up a a little!! The following are mid price(around £800+ new) but will be significantly cheaper second hand: [u]Powered tops[/u] - eg Mackie, Wharfdale, JBL - all of these are around £800 - £950 per pair new, approx 400w but are plentiful secondhand (£400??), have a good reputation, are plug and play and can be integrated easily with bass bins etc. In addition, they are relatively compact (20kg), plastic bodied and you don't have the issues of separate amps etc. These can also be used as monitors if you expand your kit later with my choice being the Mackie SRM450. [u]Powered mixers [/u]- very common and have the benefits of a compact unit. Only issue is that they typically max out at 500w per side in the mid price range of £800. While this is perfect for your needs now, they really can't be effectively expanded or integrated with anything else. Probably best known names are Dynacord and Yamaha [u]Amp/Speakers[/u] - Studiomaster, Mackie, JBL, Wharfedale, Yamaha, Peavey etc. If I was to choose, I would plump for a Tapco Juice 2500 (Mackie brand). Less than £300 and is a ridiculous amount of amp for the money with approx 600watt at 8ohm. Another option is the Yamaha P3500S, around £400 and similar rating. For speakers, Yamaha S112V/S115V at around £650 new. If you ever want to upgrade your gear with this approach, you will probably need another amp, cross overs etc to add bass bins [u]Mixer [/u]- Can't beat some of the compact mixers amd I would auggest something with around 12 channels and possibly with some basic effects - again to give you future flexibility. Around £200 will buy this type new from Yamaha, TAPCO, [u]Monitors[/u]: Reasonable powered monitors from around £200 but try and find something that you can also support an unpowered slave. You lose foldback flexibility but has real costs benefits for you. Wharfedale EVP has been around a while, good reputation and excellent support. This has only really scratched the surface for you to be honest and I haven't mentioned makes such as RCF, dB etc but I hope it gives you food for thought. Just remember PA is a big investment and should be treated as an instrument you want to gain skill on. You are only as good as what is projected out front !! If you want info on desk set up, gain structure etc, I can post some links which will give you an extremely good idiots guide. There is also a lot of good stuff on this site. Hope this helps Iain. In terms of what I used (pairs): [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39146&hl=mackie+pa"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...mp;hl=mackie+pa[/url] Mackie SRM450 - 400w each for tops/ monitors Mackie SRM350 - 300w each for montitors Mackie SA1521Z - 500w each full range tops Mackie 1801 - 1000w each bass bins Mackie 1501 - 500w each bass bins Mackie 1232 - 1300w each columns Mackie CFX 20 desk - with basic effects Mackie C300 passive tops Yamaha CP2000 amp Loads of assorted processors etc

For what it is worth, I found this one - seems very accurate based on the live Tull versions I have.............. [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/j/jethro_tull/bouree_ver2_btab.htm"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/j/jeth...e_ver2_btab.htm[/url] (Note: meant to say, there is some advertising going on when it opens up, just click on the link below the picture........)

Just sold umph some gear, simple, painless transaction - would be happy to deal with him again and recommend him to other BCrs Iain

[quote name='rslaing' post='487859' date='May 14 2009, 01:20 PM']I've known the owners of this business for 30 years, since long before it was started. I have spoken to them for clarification. It is indeed the finance provider that has gone in to administration and Sounds Live are sourcing a new service. Just to clear things up..................[/quote] good news indeed - be a crying shame if the North lost yet another long term music shop............

Anyone got a competent TAB version of Bachs Bourre as played by Tull?? Or even the original? Be much appreciated Thanks Iain

[quote name='OldGit' post='485155' date='May 11 2009, 04:15 PM']Sax is fine, ta .. Not had a gig to play yet but it's fine at home Round hole plugs are relatively easy to get [url="http://www.gjsguitars.com/index.jsp?searchStr=AA0616+"]http://www.gjsguitars.com/index.jsp?searchStr=AA0616+[/url][/quote] Pleased the instrument of brass coloured metal is well.............boy did I make a mistake and get an ear bashing when I described it as brass before............... yep, unless you get something like a Washburn which can have a bloody oval one...............old cds and gaffer tape anyone??

Shucks Si, you're making me blush..............but thanks for the support...........how is the sax by the way?? Yep, Si is right, I forgot about the notch filter that may be on your acoustic however while they are effective, it will not accommodate you moving about on stage very well and will require a reset every time you encounter a different Hz band. If you have onboard electronics, just patch over the sound hole. Cheaper and works a treat.

[quote name='Cornfedapache' post='484245' date='May 10 2009, 12:03 PM']What's a good hint (aside from playing behind the amp!!!) for avoiding feedback on an acoustic bass? Are there any 'plug-ins' that you can get to limit teh signal at all without diminishing sound quality? Ta![/quote] Yep, loads of methods eg if you have an internal boom mic or piezzo you can blank over the sound hole. If this is not suitable then you can use electronic means but these are commonly attached to the sound desk eg Graphic Equaliser. I have used these (see below) specifically for acoustic, drum overheads and monitors ie gear that normally contributes to feedback. It can be set up to hunt automatically and will reset itself. It has ultra narrow notch so you won't hear the filters working and is pretty idiot proof. It can be set up at the acoustic insert on your desk channel, set up and left alone. [url="http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=3991"]http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=3991[/url] I have a signiifcant amount of pa gear to clear and sold two already to a BCr. I can sell you my last one for £50 +pp. Normally £130. Iain (ps:check my feedback threads - all gear is very, very good)

[quote name='The Burpster' post='483589' date='May 9 2009, 10:03 AM'][b]Paul Reed Smith[/b] - Like the perfect woman, Very hard to find and well worth the wait![/quote] yes indeedee...........

Just had a deal with Keith for two mics. Nice guy to deal, painless transaction and highly recommended. Who needs Fleabay when we have the BCrs to trade with!!!

[quote name='KevB' post='474207' date='Apr 28 2009, 02:05 PM']A mate asked my opinion and I don't have any experience with Skytronics stuff. It looks good value on paper but is it cheap and nasty or decent quality?[/quote] It may well be good but I think it is DJ orientated. Only time I ever saw it was doing live sound and there was a dj after the band

[quote name='alexclaber' post='470958' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:39 PM']I think the DB750 used to have a habit of doing this too. I guess you could also place a high power resistor inline with the power cable and then bypass it once you've got over the start-up surge. Alex[/quote] Thanks Alex, input appreciated. Here is the followup: I tried the 'Canford Current Inrush' unit (see link previously) but it didn't work at all so I wouldn't recommend it for this amp issue. I can't complain about Canford, great to deal with and they have taken the unit back. I traced the original design engineer in the US who developed the SVT6-PRO (he no longer works for Ampeg). He and Ampeg knew all about the problem and suggested it was even worse in the UK because of the 240v/ 13amp sytem we use here. He can provide a small circuit board that carries the correctly rated thermistor mentioned previously and installation instructions (but obviously recommends it being performed by a qualified engineer) I have contacted both Ampeg US/ UK and they simply don't want to know. It is a well known issue but not deemed to be a fault so not covered under any goodwill or warranty. When I suggested that if they bought a new high priced TV set and it tripped out every time it was switched on, would be acceptable? They had nothing to say. I should add at this point the Customer Services contact in the US was personally great to deal with and responded promptly when he had sourced info. The only option I have is to take it to the importers recommended repair shop in Leeds and pay around £100 for the upgrade to be carried out. When I contacted the repairer and mentioned the amp, the first response was ''tripping out on switch on or output stage sir?''. They knew all about the problem as well. Like a lot of people I bought this gear cos I liked the sound and had seen the brand on too many stages to ignore it. It is unlikely I am going to get any help from Ampeg or Loud (importers) but I can't see me buying any more Ampeg gear again in a hurry. Unfortunately this Company seems to think issuing a beta development model to the street is ok.......... Well, that is my major rant over with and feel a whole lot better now.......................................

[quote name='knicknack' post='468914' date='Apr 21 2009, 06:44 PM']Hey guys! Just wondering what all your experiences were buying from Thomann? I never have before today, and found their service pretty good! However, their methods of payment totally threw me... a German account number i needed to transfer to that wouldn't register with my bank, then they wouldn't accept my card, meaning i couldn't pay in any way for my purchase! Anyone else had these problems? Paddy[/quote] Bought quite a bit from them and always found them top notch. Only issue now of course is the euro/ ££ for pricing. In terms of service, first class. On the few times I've had to mail or call them, always had a quick response and their English is a lot better than my German . Don't understand your card issues. Their system has always accepted mine and been pretty idiot proof. Why don't you phone them up and find out what the problem is??? I would recommend them..........

found the thread I was looking for - looks like I am not the only one to have surge issues with AMPEG SVT6PRO [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33872&hl=ampeg"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33872&hl=ampeg[/url] and link for the unit itself.......... [url="http://www.canford.co.uk/ProductResources/ig/1916.pdf"]http://www.canford.co.uk/ProductResources/ig/1916.pdf[/url] might give them a call.............. just called, depot only three miles from me but downside is £72 +vat, might be a good investment cos this amp tripping out is driving me nuts...........

[quote name='bremen' post='468263' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:33 AM']I know what you mean. But it's a big amp, and takes a big surge that some house electrics are just a bit over-sensitive to. The guy who built the device had problems with it tripping the fuse at his rehearsal room.[/quote] You are right, it is a seriously powerful amp, I use to use very high powered pa gear and in some venues it had to be turned on very carefully and in stages to protect the house system from falling down. Ok when running but problematic on startup. I do know that my home has an electronic consumer unit and is pretty sensitive so perhaps that's all it is. If it was the unit itself I would have thought the internal fuse would go if it was a true short and when running normally the amp is fine - fan noise apart . I have seen a link on this site for a unit that protects against excessive draw in start up but I can't find it. I remember it staged the current draw but can't find the link. Thanks again for your input

[quote name='bremen' post='468245' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:21 AM']Yes, someone here built himself a surge protector for not a lot. The only active component is a NTC thermistor, such as [url="http://uk.farnell.com/epcos/b57237s109m/thermistor-ntc-1r-9a/dp/1688801"]http://uk.farnell.com/epcos/b57237s109m/th...r-9a/dp/1688801[/url][/quote] input much appreciated but this is crap if I have to protect the system from itself!! You come across this before? Worth having a chat with the importer? Sound Control closed now so can't go back to the shop any more...........

I think I have seen this posted elsewhere but can't find it. Have a problem with my Ampeg SVT6-PRO. This amp has hardly been used and just over a year old (shameful isn't it) and it seems to trip fuses when it is fired up. I strongly suspect it has such a high current draw on start up due to the caps inside that it is acting like a dead short. Once running, it can be switched off / on normally. Issue only seems to occur when fired up for the first time. I should add it is not the amp internal fuse that is going but either the cable or the house mains (pretty sensitive) Anyone got any ideas? Do I have a problem with the amp? I also remember seeing a unit that could be placed in line for high draw equipment to prevent this - anyone point me in the right direction? Help appreciated..............