AM1

[quote name='Eight' post='497449' date='May 25 2009, 06:49 PM']Pay more attention to what you're doing in practice time. The only way I've managed to learn the notes that I have done is to pay attention to what the notes actually are when I'm playing stuff for fun. And practice more scales. I love scales - boring as sin to play but playing them up and down the fretboard really beats the pants off sitting trying to learn each note on paper. Having said that, [url="http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id81_en.html"]http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id81_en.html[/url][/quote] I haven't got much time just now for that kind of practice, too much band whoring is taking up most of my practice time just now but it will calm down after June, but I'm trying to line up stuff to work on in advance. The scales thing is SOO important yes, by the way, I recommend a book called "Serious Electric Bass"by Joel Di Bartolo - I just got it last week, absolutely outstanding book, you would love it, it's in notation too. I need to get a life really, I thought I was obsessive with my other hobbies, but I'm taking it to a new level with bass! This seriously cannot be healthy!

[quote name='dlloyd' post='497351' date='May 25 2009, 04:09 PM']That's the exact point. Practicing reading on the bass will sort this out for you. You need to get it to the point where you associate the written note with the played note without having to translate it through its note name. That's how you got to know the piano keyboard, right?[/quote] Hi - reading on the bass hasn't really helped to develop instantaneous knowledge of the fretboard, i.e. where the same notes can be found on different parts of the fretboard, or how to play various fills in different positions. Anyone can learn a piano keyboard very, very quickly, because there is an easy visual reference of where the notes in an octave repeat themselves - i.e. (let's assume C major scale so without going into enharmonic equivalents) before every 2 black keys the immediate key to the left is a C and before every 3 black keys the note to the immediate left is an F. Where you find a note on the stave for a piano key, it relates to a specific PITCH on the piano keyboard. The bass is a different animal in that the same note (pitch) can be found in different locations on the bass plus it is tuned in 4ths - so reading bass music has not been conducive for me to learn the fretboard instinctively. [quote name='dlloyd' post='497351' date='May 25 2009, 04:09 PM']It won't if you don't let it. Some of the best improvisers I know were classically trained. I've also played with classically trained musicians who can't improvise to save themselves. The problem isn't the classical training per se, it's lack of experience in improvisation.[/quote] Yes - ditto and there's plenty of double edged swords in there, but it's another discussion - but a really interesting one at that. [quote name='dlloyd' post='497351' date='May 25 2009, 04:09 PM']You could always play 'find the note'... write notes on bits of paper, put them in a bag, and pick them at random... You pick the specific string then put your hand in the bag, then you find the note...[/quote] YES - it's exercises that will help, not notation. I have had advice from two different schools of thought overall on this topic and some say learn patterns i.e. modes, scales and intervals but not necessarily all the note names - others say, no you must know the note names, then things like modulation and transposing will be easier. EDIT - general point not aimed at anyone specific - reading vs. ear isn't my intended discussion here. The intended discussion is means by which to learn the fretboard inside out, along with opinions regarding benefits of knowing the notes versus pattern/interval approach.

[quote name='steve-soar' post='497338' date='May 25 2009, 03:52 PM']What instrument did you learn to read music for and has it been your main instrument in the past?[/quote] I can read in all clefs (both polyphonic, i.e contrapuntal separation and uniform homophony) and only started playing electric bass recently - so sometimes I will use written notation to learn bass music to supplement ear learning but that's for actually learning already written compositions (and is impeded by having to work out where the notes are on the bass). In context though, my question has a focus around live performance and particularly improvisation, for which I think learning the fretboard (and not just intervals) will possibly be of benefit. Reading notation doesn't come into it in the particular scenario I am describing.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='497293' date='May 25 2009, 02:38 PM']It's a lot easier if you force yourself to read. I get a bit fuzzy on the reading further up the fretboard. Jeff Berlin reckons trombone music is great for practicing reading on electric bass and, in this case, what he says makes sense. It might be worth going through the ABRSM syllabus for trombone and working your way through some of the earlier grades. [url="http://www.abrsm.org/resources/tromboneSyllabusComplete08.pdf"]http://www.abrsm.org/resources/tromboneSyl...sComplete08.pdf[/url][/quote] But I can read and it makes no difference whatsoever to live playing. I can read bass clef and know the notes instantly on the stave but I have to figure out where they are on the bass. As with Golchen, I know on a piano keyboard, instantly, every note, which means sight reading and learning music off notation is much easier, whereas sight reading and learning music off written notation on the bass takes a bit more time. For those who said that they do know every note they're playing, do you always also know the full song structures i.e. guitar chords, etc? This is about live playing. The reading thing is handy but it has to be kept in context. Reading too much (in my experience) can cause dependency on written music and create constraints in improvisation skills so for now, my approach is build basic basslines and impro over them, rarely playing the exact same basslines twice. This works as long as I hit the "right" notes when chords change. I don't see how working on reading notation will really nail fretboard knowledge - what it will do is help to understand the relationship between the dots on the sheet with where those notes are on the fretboard - but the notes on the bass clef in any case do not truly represent the real position of the electric bass register in any case. Any exercises that can help with learning the notes would be useful.

[quote name='Buzz' post='497039' date='May 25 2009, 03:23 AM']I'd say there is something to knowing the fretboard quite well, but in all honesty, you only have to learn upto the 12th fret (octave) and know the shortcuts to where the notes repeat, eg, 7th fret on the E string is a B, which is also the 2nd on A, 9th fret on D and the 4th on the G. Or E is open on the E string, 12th on E, 7th on A, 2nd on D and 9th on G etc. Once you know the shortcuts, the fretboard becomes quite easy to work and understand because those shortcuts also work backwards. It also means you can follow the guitarist should they shout out chords, you get told it's a say C chord, then go to the root and work from there.[/quote] Hi, I understand those shortcuts but I still have to work out when I hit a fret, what note I am playing, i.e. I don't instinctively know them. This just seems bizarre. If I want to play certain notes, surely I should know them immediately, before I've even played them, without having to piss about working out what they are. Open string notes and their octaves on the 12th fret are easy as is the 2 across, two up, octave - but learning major and minor intervals on the fretboard is the mathematical approach, it doesn't really help in knowing what notes I'm playing, that approach means I am always having to work out from intervals, what notes I am playing - surely I should know the notes on the fretboard without having to work out when I'm playing, what I'm actually playing.

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='497032' date='May 25 2009, 03:08 AM']No I mean that when playing a line I've practiced or when improvising I don't consciously think 'I've just played an A, the next note is a C and then there's a G' I'm sure there are benefits to knowing the fretboard inside out and if I could be bothered I'd probably make an effort to improve my own ability to point to any note on demand. Did you miss the 'wink' smiley indicating that the last line was not to be taken seriously?[/quote] Hi But when improvising, I think if you know the notes on the fretboard, you know where you're going next or can take a different direction rather than using practiced lines or patterns. This is where I am lacking versatility. For example, if I would want to throw in certain notes (not necessarily roots or even predictable intervals) over a relatively complex guitar chord sequence...then if I know the names of the chords being played and what the notes are on my fretboard, it would be easier in some instances than learning by ear or messing about working out the note names on the fretboard. PS I saw the smiley but I can't read your mind! I am just interested to hear the logic from both sides of the fence - i.e. players that don't know the notes they play and those who know every single note. I am not saying one approach is better than the other, just trying to work out ways to remove the "limitations" that are appearing in my playing. Cheers AM

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='497021' date='May 25 2009, 01:33 AM']Nope Also I don't consciously think 'now I have to put my foot down on the clutch' when I'm driving. Knowing what you're doing is overrated [/quote] Are you saying that there are no benefits in learning the fretboard inside out and ear playing is sufficient for real time stuff?

Yo Bit of a strange one, in that I could carry on not doing much fretboard study and play by ear or I could fix this if I knew how to learn the fretboard properly. Pretty much most of the time, in a band rehearsal/gig context, I don't know what notes I'm playing (unless I count up the strings and work it out) - I just play by ear. I get through studio and gig stuff mainly by using skeleton basslines that I've already constructed (mainly by ear) but then improvising fills, from basic pentatonic and chromatic scales and arpeggios. But I'm getting restricted in terms of playing very similar patterns/fills/intervals a lot of the time - I can only put this down to lack of fretboard knowledge. I seem to be failing on sorting out fundamentals, surely this cannot be good! It seems fairly ridiculous to be getting through full gigs with absolutely no idea most of the time, what notes I am playing. So my question - do you always know, even when impro'ing, every single note you play?

[quote name='phsycoandy' post='496081' date='May 23 2009, 03:43 PM']A few.... Gigging her tonight at a "posh gig"[/quote] Amazing bass. Have you got any recordings of you playing that beast?! Preferably showing the different pickup configs?

[quote name='phsycoandy' post='496055' date='May 23 2009, 02:43 PM']It plays like I never want to part with it! Thanks for the comments, she always gets favourable glances at gigs.[/quote] Have you got any more pics so I can indulge my bass lust for your bass ha ha ha! Any sound clips?? Seriously that bass is stunning!

[quote name='phsycoandy' post='181126' date='Apr 20 2008, 04:42 PM']Heres another one of the recent crop of walnut models, mostly struck from the same tree! [/quote] I seriously think this is THE most beautiful bass I've ever seen!!! I am so curious as to what it plays like!

That's absolutely beautiful...as I bet the tone is. But I'd whip those covers off in a flash...get it naked!!!

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='495124' date='May 22 2009, 01:07 PM']Like an STD.[/quote] Between constantly crapping yourself and slagging off Warwicks, can you tell me how it is possible to stand totally still while playing bass! Are you one of those bored looking, "what am I getting for tea" bass players

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='495113' date='May 22 2009, 01:01 PM']I did it in a night club. And the pub. And walking home from a nightclub. Never sober mind.[/quote] You're a catch alright!

[quote name='Johngh' post='494991' date='May 22 2009, 11:21 AM']Were they they the same gauge ?[/quote] Yes, both 45-105.

[quote name='alexharvay' post='494988' date='May 22 2009, 11:15 AM']Variety is the spice......... D'Addarios, Ernie balls and Rotosounds are all makes that I have killed off quickly. Not to say they're rubbish, some bass players I know swear by some of these makes.[/quote] No, no, no. Hi-Beams are THE LAW!

[quote name='51m0n' post='494910' date='May 22 2009, 09:51 AM']Hi Beams are even more supple: the tension is the same or there abouts given the mass and length of the string are the same, the string is just easier to bend. The tend to be a bit more sccoped sounding, I thing they have more top and more low end then the lo-riders do. You may need to lift you action slightly (hence hi beams) due to the extra suppleness of the string.[/quote] That's interesting, because I recently swapped onto Hi-Beams on a bass that had previously been setup whilst it had D'Addarios on and now it has a fair amount of fret buzz. I love Hi-Beams! The D'Addarios were well harsh in comparison!

[quote name='cheddatom' post='494959' date='May 22 2009, 10:45 AM']Well, not really, the sweat drips off my face and I would guess a few of those drops get onto the strings, but not a significant amount. I am always soaked through after gigs but my strings have never gone black or even got significantly dirty. Similarly when I play drums I sweat even more, [b]so much that it feels like i've had an extremely sloppy turd in my pants,[/b] but I can still hold onto the sticks!![/quote] Haha, that sounds like you're speaking from experience! I don't know, I just admitted to being a bit sweaty, now all the rancid confessions are sliming their way out! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[quote name='alexharvay' post='494930' date='May 22 2009, 10:09 AM']I don't know the first ting about diving so interesting to learn that cardiovascular conditioning plays such an important part in diving. I'm a good middle distance runner and I attribute my lack of sweat on stage to that. I'm assuming you've tried several different makes of strings? Like I said, Elites work for me and I've found Ernie Ball, Rotosound and a few other stings just don't last as long under my fingers.[/quote] It's hugely important for diving. If you only do one form of cardio though you will hit a wall, the body needs to be shocked regularly, that's why it's better to also include swimming and cycling. Diving - yes probably most recreational divers using single tanks and only going to 40 metres max. can get away with being unfit and overweight (grossly so in many cases!), but it's a road to certain death on deep diving, particularly regards closed circuit and decompression. Poor cardiovascular conditioning impedes the lungs from exchanging gases, increasing the overall work of breathing (which in a closed loop can result in increased CO2, hypercapnia and death) and impedes effective decompression. Not to mention the difficulties in getting on and off a vessel in force 6 seas, carrying 70kgs+ of gear. Sweating on stage - I defy anyone to play for an hour, playing constant fast 8ths (in fact more like 16ths a lot of the time) under hot lights, while also leaping around like a maniac, and not sweat You WILL sweat on a punk gig, no two ways about it! I haven't tried that many makes of strings actually, (well not on my basses) it does seem to be Hi-Beams that always die quickly, but I did kill some D'Addarios fairly fast recently as well.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='494909' date='May 22 2009, 09:50 AM']I play hard, and I sweat a lot, but not from my hands you weirdo![/quote] Yeah exactly not from your hands, but I bet sweat drips onto the bass anyway, then when you play, your strings get slippery, you slippery weirdo!

[quote name='alexharvay' post='494904' date='May 22 2009, 09:37 AM']Ha, I don't play jazz and I don't play like a boring twat but I can get away with changing every few months. But I get what you mean. Maybe if you improved your cardiovascular endurance you may sweat less?[/quote] I'm as fit as a fiddle mate, cardiovascular conditioning is THE single most important factor in deep diving. Maybe if I jumped around like a loony less when playing, I'd sweat less! (Or played jazz) I don't really think it is just sweat off my hands at practices/gigs is what is killing the strings so fast, I think it is also probably oil, plus the fact that I am pretty much glued to my bass most of my free time. In fact, any more and it will have to be surgically removed!

[quote name='pete.young' post='494778' date='May 21 2009, 11:28 PM']If it was good enough for Jamerson ... If you use flatwounds, there's really no point in changing them.[/quote] I don't use flatwounds. I use 45-105 roundwounds. By the way, Jamerson may have used "dead" flats but he also used a '62 P Bass, a tone monster in itself, as well as playing more like a double bassist with an extremely high action and using signal boosting for overdrive. There's dead and there's blackened and black roundwounds do NOT sound good!

[quote name='SteveO' post='494746' date='May 21 2009, 10:50 PM']lol. makes sense, maybe i'm missing out, but to be fair it was a sarcastic comment and really shouldn't be taken too seriously One day I may try new strings and it may be a life changing experience, but I wouldn't hold your breath coz it'll probably only be when they come fitted to a spanking new bass, and sometimes I think i'm the only gasless bassist on here [/quote] To be perfectly honest, I was being diplomatic in my reply to you. Putting on a new set of strings more frequently that once every fifteen years isn't GAS... I think in your case, it WOULD be a life changing experience if you put new strings on! You don't realise how crap they really sound until you fit a new set. Nothing worse than the tone from dead strings, it's so dull.

[quote name='SteveO' post='494718' date='May 21 2009, 10:21 PM']I changed my strings once... I became paranoid and bought a 2 spare sets, one for the 4 and one for the 5. Thought i'd change them and keep the old ones in case of breakages. Swapped out the 5 string, but never bothered with the 4. I still have the unopened packet in the gigbag... that was back in '95. Come to think of it, the 4 still has it's original strings, they must be 15 years old now. Not sure what a set costs now, but this maybe a usefull tip to save on replacements... I have an amp with a trebble control on it. A quick clockwise tweak makes the sound lovely and zingy when needed [/quote] Hiya - tried all that - no amount of tweaking will make blackened strings sound zingy, trust me! Also, I am really not a fan of bass tones that are too trebly. I find a big difference between zing and treble! I'd love to hear those 15 year old strings though!