AM1

[quote name='maxrossell' post='483959' date='May 9 2009, 07:34 PM']Let's hope the answers are all just as reasonable.[/quote] Well, we're talking about music. It's not quite clear what you're doing.

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='483951' date='May 9 2009, 07:25 PM']I'm both, I've had lessons for years but was originally self taught. The 1st lesson was a mile stone in my playing, and a real eye opener to just how poor my technique was. It took me ages to 'un-learn' my technique and re-learn the 'proper' way. Basically I'd learned from a book which said that you only used three fingers on your left hand (fretting hand), and held the bass neck like a bassball bat. This was obviously a very limiting playing style, my teacher was amazed how I could play stuff that was very complicated the way I could. I didn't bother with lessons when I changed to 6 string bass, again I learned the hard way and it took a few lessons from Steve Lawson and a lot of hours practice to get my 6 string playing sorted out, floating thumb and damping/muting etc.[/quote] Hiya, thanks, really useful info. Floating thumb was actually one of the things I was going to mention, although there are variants of it (which is another discussion in itself!) I'd be interested in how you played before the lessons (right hand) - did you use thumb on the pickup or float?

[quote name='maxrossell' post='483933' date='May 9 2009, 07:02 PM']I can see where this is going. Wahey.[/quote] Where's that then? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Just taking a break from the bass before my hand falls off (I know, it's Saturday night and I'm a freak) - anyway just wondered, who is self teaching and who has lessons and who has tried both?? Any preferences? Do you think that if you have regular lessons, the tutor's musical personality will become apparent in your playing? Or is it better to just develop your own style?

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='482008' date='May 7 2009, 02:17 PM']Not even back in the 80's? I had some stone-wash Fred Flinstone jeans.[/quote] Oh dear. Were you that bratty kid who kept trying to put his hand up my skirt on the way to school?!

Nathan Watts and Winston Blissett!!

Jake Thanks for the measured reply. It is nice to see that someone can still conduct themselves in a civilised manner here, whilst offering an alternative perspective. [quote name='jakesbass' post='479510' date='May 4 2009, 10:46 PM']I don't see the evidence for this. In a professional career spanning 20yrs and most genres, I have encountered music and musicians from all denominations and paths of learning, the people who are sufficiantly motivated to become brilliant (and I've had the joy of performing with some truly world class musicians) will become brilliant through talent first and method second. The talent exists, the learning is a means to an end. I know many musicians who are trained to the very highest standards that are available in the entire world of music education, and they themselves in my experience have a reverence for sheer talent trained or not. Talent is understood and accepted by the very highest authorities. The people who lack talent but have a great work ethic will also do well but are generally not top flight performers in the same way. Talent and energy for work ethic combined is the most formidable category of musician, in my experience these people have a seemingly endless capacity for absorbing and reproducing music, Interestingly the work ethic is not necassarily a formal, training it might be years learning repertoire or simply gobbling up (very quickly) all music available.[/quote] I think this is a good point, well made. It is true what you say about the work ethic. But define "talent" - the way I define "talent" is that some people simply have more natural musicality than others and this was what I was referring to in my opening post here. [quote name='jakesbass' post='479510' date='May 4 2009, 10:46 PM']An example: I had the great good fortune to tour Europe with Ike Willis singer with Frank Zappa for 12 yrs, Ike was and is a ferocious talent. His methods of learning were not formal but on evenings off we would listen to music and his knowledge is encyclopaedic, he sang every part from hundreds of albums, he knew all instrumentation, all drum fills, this guy was a gigantic musical sponge, I would say without hesitation he is likely more talented than any one person that has ever posted on Basschat, he had not a scrap of formality in his method, however he was as formidable a musician as you could meet. His tradition (the aural tradition) as I pointed out in my earlier post has every bit of equal integrity to the relatively nascent formal music training that western Europe has given to the world in recent centuries. His tradition (one which I hold myself and give great store to is handed down from thousands of years of hearing and re creating music.[/quote] I absolutely agree that spending years and years obsessively absorbing repertoire definitely has merit. However, as you state, there was also talent there, as well as the work ethic. My point was that for those musicians whom do have to work hard at it, there are multiple avenues to assist progress and therefore the mentality that ear playing on it's own is "adequate" is just a bit disappointing. It seems that the bass is an instrument where this mentality is very prevalent and in fact I have already encountered reverse "snobbery" from pure ear players when they ask if I read music, it is met with derision when I say yes, as if somehow that is "cheating". I will use every method available as and when I feel that it will assist constructive progress and do not feel that this approach should be denigrated by those whom simply lack the same motivation and application. [quote name='jakesbass' post='479510' date='May 4 2009, 10:46 PM']That my friends carries every bit as much, if not more value, depth, integrity as any system of notation. The best evidence for which lies in the question: Why does an orchestra need a conductor? The answer: cos there's not enough on the page to go off. A conductor brings the music to life. Check out five different recordings of a classical composition and you will hear that the aural tradition of hearing, feeling and interpreting music is very much alive...[/quote] Different conductors interpret music differently - but the point this, they all start from the same written music but can offer varying creative input to an ensemble, - [b]because[/b] they can read.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='479496' date='May 4 2009, 10:36 PM']Single most intelligent post in this thread. If you're approaching music as a means to 'improve yourself' at the expense of 'having fun', you are getting it dead wrong. Take up bridge or judo or something.[/quote] For some people, improving musicianship is THE primary fun and joy of music. That's what I get out of it and the more effort you put in, the more reward you get out. I just don't see the point of standing still when you can keep striving for improvment. I don't consider that as me "getting it dead wrong" - progress is a great thing, it keeps the passion for music alive.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='478412' date='May 3 2009, 06:41 PM']I bought a copy as a birthday present for a mate who was a big Alice fan, about 10 years ago & had a sneaky read before wrapping it up! However just checked EvilBay & there's a copy up at the moment: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALICE-COOPER-book-by-MICHAEL-BRUCE-No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy_W0QQitemZ120414553943"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALICE-COOPER-book-by...emZ120414553943[/url] Although the same search also brought up this rather daunting one in the US: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy-ALICE-COOPER-book-by-Michael-Bruce_W0QQitemZ380067710111"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy-...emZ380067710111[/url] It's an interesting read but apparently a lot of Bruce's recollections should be taken with a pinch of salt - at the time he plainly had a substantial chip on his shoulder about what happened with the original band. It seems that Alice & the surviving members (lead guitarist Glen Buxton died in 1997) are now all on good terms & have occasionally got back together for low-key one-offs, and the possibility of a "proper" reunion has been mooted. I'd go & see that. J.[/quote] Thanks for the links! I thought Neil Smith and Dunaway together were a brilliant rhythm section. Books look interesting, cheers!

[quote name='truegeminis' post='477522' date='May 2 2009, 08:44 AM']Another big Dunaway fan here. I've been a life long fan of Alice due to him being my Dad's favourite Artist. I always used to get a programme brought home for me when he went to see him and I was too young to go. When I eventually got to go, it was like achieving a life long dream. I remember, when I started playing bass, learning the whole of killer and school's out. Definitely an under-rated player and some of the basslines on the Alice Cooper Band albums are brilliant. Often wondered why I'd never seen an Alice tribute and always wanted to start one if I found some musicians who loved his/their music as much as I do. Doubt I could pick a favourite song, but I do think Welcome to My Nightmare is one of the best albums ever written and all the AC Band albums are classic rock albums. I still regularly listen to all of them. [/quote] It's great to see so many Dunaway fans here! As you say, classic rock albums! What continuously amazes me is how much Alice has evolved so much and experimented with so many different sub-genres, which is why he is still selling albums now. But to me, it's the basslines and the overall musical phrasing that really stands out!

[quote name='pete.young' post='477511' date='May 2 2009, 08:11 AM']I've got a Fender 3mm (!) which was rejected by my guitar-playing son which works for me - we have a couple of numbers in the set (Town Called Malice, Lithium etc) which really benefit from the sound. It's probably slightly too think to be ideal but I'm too lazy to go shopping. Colin Hodgkinson uses a pick, and also has a pick-like technique using the nail of his first finger (with the thumb pressed hard up against it). OK if you've got fingernails.[/quote] Hi yes I use my nails as well! It's free...haha.

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='477504' date='May 2 2009, 07:52 AM']That is a dificult choice! Possibly 'Generation Landslide' from 'Billion Dollar Babies'.. Also, 'Be My Lover' from 'Killer' and I love 'Halo of Flies'.. Thankfully, I don't need to make a decision! What about you?[/quote] Hi again Nik! I think probably No More Mr. Nice Guy, Dead Babies or Caught In A Dream, another great grooving bassline!

[quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']Just my opinion and preference. I listen to a diverse catalogue of music and musicians. I prefer classical music, and modern jazz but don't expect anyone else to do so. The reason I listen to my preferences is because not only is it more challenging to play, , and to me, fulfilling but (sorry for the inference before I get shot down in flames again) I would use the cliche that most of the stuff around now is just "bubble gum for the brain". And performed by a lot of talentless, mass produced drones. And not very well. Unfortunately, this sort of crap is all the kids want to aspire to, and my theory is backed up by what we see and hear on MTV etc.[/quote] I couldn't agree more. I greatly enjoy classical music as well. The very notion of musical composition, particularly for a genre such as classical, without the ability to read and transcribe is simply ludicrous. [quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']I am not alone in my belief that there is a lack of development of young musicians in this country. The quality of live music has drastically deteriorated in the last 20 years due to too many factors to attempt to mention here. The inability of the educators to encourage potential is in no small way due to the lack of funding, foresight, and not the benefits of musicianship (to those that are inclined towards a musical career).[/quote] Again, I couldn't agree more. It is well and good playing by ear but for many musicians, there is only so far they can go with this method. To become truly outstanding, a greater amount of diversity of learning methodology is an absolute necessity. This cannot be superceded, if one wants to play certain genres of music. As to the points about popular music, a vast majority of the session backing musicians have the dual arsenal of skills in their weaponry, from a great ear to the ability to read music. Recording is expensive and the musicians whom can speak the language are the most time and cost efficient. A composer writing down a few chords and trying to teach musicians their music by ear, is a time consuming process, compared to with a reader of music, whom will reasonably expect to be able to fairly quickly read a written piece and understand key composition elements, for example, dynamics and phrasing. [quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']One thing is for sure, unless a musician aspires to be able to play stuff that others can't (unless he is intent on being an average amateur - which is fine too) he will not improve his potential. And I also believe that unless"we" try to elevate standards, we will see in our lifetime, a severe deterioration of capable musicians performing live. Sad.[/quote] Again, I agree. There is an insidious culture appearing in music regarding the capability that we should still be able to expect and the erosion of outstanding musicians is happening partly because of this "acceptance" of average amateurs as the industry standard. [quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']Hence my stand on suggesting that musicians do whatever they can to become more learned, and not just to take the course of least resistance - which is unfortunately human nature - when it comes to developing musicianship. And that includes learning to read and write music, whether or not it APPEARS to be important. It is.[/quote] For musicians to become more learned, half the battle is overcoming this increasingly prevalent mentality that shunning the rudiments of music in favour of playing by ear, is the way forward. It is not, for many musicians who ignore the basic building blocks available, they will hit a wall and the difference between being average, or being outstanding is partly determined by mental attitude and how one progresses through those walls.

[quote name='The Burpster' post='479349' date='May 4 2009, 08:25 PM']Mudslinging in theory and technique.......? Excellent..... I have just drudged though 16 pages to see what the fuss is about, in honesty I'm still not sure. Noone has any objection to passionate debate, I find it hard to understand why some of you get so hung up in your own beliefs that others who may choose to disagree set themselves up to be targets of petty bickering. Please keep it on track from now on or this topic will be closed, which would be a shame beacuse there is some excellent contributions thus far and very good arguments for and against. Me, I have no opinion as I struggle with it all equally, reading, playing by tab or ear. Then I'm not a professional musician, if I were I guess I'd take them all more seriously.[/quote] Before I make any further responses on the actual subject matter of the thread, I believe that there are some serious moderation issues here, which need to be rectified. When a potentially useful discussion has descended to the level that we see here, with very late intervention by moderators, the interests of the membership of this forum are not being served appropriately. The commentators whom are unable to calmly discuss the merits of music methodology and whom have to result to personal insults should be penalised when they descend to this level, not moderators simply threatening to close threads. Why should the majority be deprived of useful debate because of the actions of a few? Furthermore, any moderator who gets involved in a thread debate, cannot and should not then, moderate in the same thread. It is simply not impartial use of moderation. A moderator who is not involved in the discussion, is the appropriate person to moderate and that rule should be applied across the board here because this theme of discussions descending into insulting chaos is all too common, to the detriment of this forum.

[quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']I don't, and if you think that I do then you've misread me. My approach has nothing to do with exclusion. It has to do with getting hold of the appropriate tools for the job.[/quote] Sometimes the appropriate tools for the job are not limited to just the tools you have to hand. It is sufficiency versus efficiency. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']Of course I have to defend my music course, when there are stuck-up nerds who know nothing about it and yet are prepared to write it off as fundamentally worthless on the basis that it didn't impose upon me to learn one aspect of music theory.[/quote] The validity of the course is a different debate. However, any music degree course with composition as a key element, which does not teach the basic building blocks of musical communication, is an extremely poorly structured course. There is no valid reason not to have included the teaching of notation and transcription. A composer for multiple instruments, whom cannot read or write down music is constrained in the ways I explained above. It is patently unacceptable in my view for a professional educational institution to omit fundamental basics from courses. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']You're obviously not a mind-reader, because it wasn't the course that validated that. What validated that is that playing by ear [i]is[/i] currently adequate for my needs. If my needs change I'll take the appropriate measures.[/quote] Again, we are back at "adequate" - that, in itself, is a subjective entity. Is it more adequate to lack the building blocks to communicate your music to others, than to simply learn to read and write notation, which may just make your life easier and enhance your all around musical capability? [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']Sure, and there are a bunch of other things that you've probably not done that would improve your musicality, and yet I'm not telling you that you [i]have[/i] to do them.[/quote] I did not "tell" you to do anything. I have explained in detail, what I perceive as some benefits of reading notation and suggested that learning to read would be a positive for someone in your position. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']Two methods? [i]Two?[/i] Jesus, are you [i]nuts?[/i] There's literally [i]hundreds[/i] of methods to enhance musicianship.[/quote] The discussion is specifically about how one communicates musically. Notation is the fundamental language of music. Playing by ear is a means by which to communicate musical ideas, but it relies to an extent on the other musicians having a similar level of ear development. In an ensemble, a coherent, efficient communication means is of paramount importance and as musical complexity increases, so does the need for a universally understood musical communication tool. Reading music removes the constraints and frustrations inherently associated with trying to communicate complex musical ideas to multiple musicians. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']You're telling [i]me[/i] to remove my blinkers, and yet you're making assumptions about me based on a few posts I've made (which you've clearly misread), and like our friend rslaing writing off a degree course because it doesn't happen to require something you mistakenly believe to be one of only two ways to improve as a musician.[/quote] A composition course should equip you with both of the main methods available for communicating musical ideas effectively and efficiently, which are playing by ear and learning the universal language of music, standard notation. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']And you've also contradicted yourself - you opened your post by saying that you weren't going to advocate one position with the exclusion of the other, and yet what you've done here, granted in a more civil way than rslaing, but just as obtusely - is to claim that it's not possible to run a respectable degree course in music without forcing people to learn standard notation, and implied rather directly that non-readers are missing out on some kind of higher level of musicianship that you of course have access to because you know what the dots mean.[/quote] What I actually said is that it is scandalous that a music degree course, with a key focus on composition, has not taught you a fundamental basic building block of musical communication. Your interpretation of my advocacy for the deployment of BOTH methods is rather erroneous - I have explained in considerable detail, the benefits of reading music, particularly in a composition context and specifically why, reading music and playing by ear in combination make the job easier, more efficient and can alter the way in which music is conceived and communicated. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']So kudos for being more civil than rslaing, but you've been just as condescending and conservative about reading music as he has.[/quote] I have outlined the benefits. It is unfortunate that you see it as condescending when someone takes the time and effort to explain in detail, the benefits they have found of using two tools for the job, as opposed to one. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']What you guys are forgetting is that music's about art and entertainment, not about pitching skill levels against each other. I'm a successful musician because I'm good enough at what I do to write and play what I want and need, and apparently well enough that other people enjoy hearing it. Crucially, the people that I [i]want[/i] to enjoy hearing it. They don't give two wet sh*ts whether or not I can read music. neither do the guys in my band, neither do the writers and engineers I work with when I'm doing production, neither do any of the hundreds of musicians I've worked with, many of whom were classically trained to a very high standard. You can tell me until you're blue in the face that I'd be a far better musician if I learned to read music, but that doesn't mean anything to me because you haven't even heard what I do. You've belittled the course I did based on what it didn't impose, without asking a [i]single question[/i] about what else it had to offer. And you're telling [i]me[/i] that I'm missing out because I'm blinkered?[/quote] Music is not a competition. Again, I respectfully suggest that it is issues at the core of your degree education which have resulted in a failure to include another method, which might enhance your musical life. Rather than "belittle" your course, I have expressed the opinion that a course focussing on composition, should also teach the fundamental rudiments of reading and writing music, in order to equip you with the efficient tools by which to communicate compositions to musicians, with the scaleability to increase complexity. [quote name='maxrossell' post='479045' date='May 4 2009, 03:30 PM']I've never heard what you play, so I won't be arrogant enough to presume to tell you what would make you a better musician, but I will say this: Without exception, of all the musicians I've ever known, by far the best were the people who, regardless of whether or not they could read or write music or whatever else, believed that the quality of the music that people produce comes from their integrity and experience, not how knowledgeable they are about techniques and theory.[/quote] I have outlined the benefits of reading music. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain. It is not about being "better," it is about the personal enrichment that comes with reading music. For you, there is a potential personal gain, it is not a competition, nor is there any need for the defensive manner in which you position your arguments. I didn't say I'm any better than you because I can read. What I said is, the ability to read opens up new possibilities and enhances musicianship. It is unfortunate that you choose to interpret contextual insight, as "competitiveness". It would a shame for you to miss out on the joys of reading music - that's my key point.

[quote name='maxrossell' post='478241' date='May 3 2009, 02:43 PM']In response to this, the people who ran the degree course I did come from a school of thought where standard notation, although not dismissed and still thought of as a very valuable tool (and also taught and supported where desired), is not considered to be an absolute prerequisite in order to be a successful musician. And you're absolutely right that in the more traditional world of music it is taken for granted that you should be able to read standard notation. However outside of that field there is an entire industry within which you can operate in many roles with a great deal of success without knowing how to read music.[/quote] Max - I would like to make a point, as a neutral party here whom is not going to advocate one approach with the exclusion of the other. I use both methods of playing by ear and reading music. The combination of both together opens many doors. The insistence on using only one method, to the exclusion of others, is a fundamental example of how a closed mind can rob of you the opportunity to improve your own skillset and musicianship. I have read all of your comments carefully and it does seem that you feel you have to defend the music course. In my opinion, your entire issue with reading standard notation has been cultivated by the fact that you have done a music degree and walked away from it, certified, but you haven't been taught a basic building block of music. This course has validated, in your mind, the mentality that playing by ear ONLY is adequate enough for your needs. The means by which you undertake, communicate and develop composition change completely when you can read and write standard notation. Just one example, a long time ago, I arranged Pachelbel's Canon in D for string quartet, by transcribing out all the harmony for each instrument. When you can read music, you can look at a sheet of music and "hear" it in your head, because you recognise intervals on the music, you can see elements of harmony, such as 3rds, 5ths for example. I could not have done that without being able to read music because I simply could not sit down and play the four instruments together and hear how the harmony would sound. Arranging and composing are infinitely easier and the creative potential higher, when using BOTH methods of using your ears and reading notation. When you are composing for multiple instruments, the ability to read and write proper notation IN COMBINATION WITH a very good ear, opens many, many doors. You can SEE on the page, what the music will sound like and there is an almost scientific element of knowing that certain note combinations will work or will not work together. Being able to read music improves your musicality in a way that it is simply very difficult to elucidate the full benefits on an internet forum. In the context of working with a group of musicians to teach them your compositions - if the music is very simple then a few chords written down and you teaching it by ear is workable - but when the complexity of your music begins to increase, the task of working with those musicians, is going to increase exponentially and become difficult, frustrating, inefficient and constrained. The converse is that when you learn to read, your composition is likely to increase in complexity. The reason for this is that when you are transcribing your own composition, you are essentially writing down, what you can hear in your head. Once you can write it down in a certain key and communicate it to others, the door is suddenly opened in terms of how much harmony you build in, the kind of harmony, rhythm etc. That way of working with musical composition simply cannot be replicated purely by playing by ear on it's own, because you can only play one instrument at a time. When you can translate the music in your head into a readable format, universally understood by a group of musicians, then and only then are you going to truly understand the benefits of learning to read. Reading music is very mathematical - it WILL change the way you compose music and enhance your whole musical capability. The fact that you paid for and undertook a music degree course, particularly with composition as a key element - and were not taught how to read and transcribe standard notation is utterly scandalous, an outrage. Rather than accept that you should have been taught properly, by THE TEACHING OF [b]BOTH[/b] METHODS, you are defending that course and your subsequent decision to use only one of the two musical methods available that will enhance your musicianship. It is deeply saddening that this course has somehow "validated" your belief that using one method and excluding another will not deprive you of a huge opportunity to improve your own musicianship. Sometimes we have to remove the blinkers and keep an open mind even when the natural instinct might be to automatically dismiss something without even trying it. Don't dismiss learning to read - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[quote name='honza992' post='461691' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:58 PM']The bass is on it's way to TheButler. If anyone else wants a go then let me know.[/quote] Hiya, I wouldn't mind a go on this bass once it's free. I want to know for myself whether you really lose tone with a short scale bass or not.

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='477455' date='May 2 2009, 01:17 AM']Depends on personal preference. My choice is a Dunlop, either .73 or .88 size... anything heavier than that and I find it slows me down.. best thing would be to buy half a dozen different ones and see what you prefer after using them all for a while...[/quote] Hi yeah I've got a bunch of different ones of varying thicknesses, just interested :-) I have seen some small ones, much smaller than normal guitar or bass picks but don't know what kind they were. Just listening to Halo of Flies again, the interplay between drums and bass is truly excellent. Hey Nik, what's your fave Alice song? A tough choice!

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='477429' date='May 2 2009, 12:13 AM']+1 Couldn't agree more Jon. I really like using a pick for certain songs and always have and it is great to have it as an alternative style to be used as appropriate..[/quote] Hi again Nik, what's the best kind of pick to use for the bass?

[quote name='Bassassin' post='477378' date='May 1 2009, 10:29 PM']Sorry I can't help with the transcriptions AM1 - just another massive Dunaway fan. He was one of my biggest influences when starting to play - I practically learned by playing along to Halo Of Flies & Gutter Cat Vs The Jets! I do agree Dennis is a tragically under-recognised player, and it's a shame that history has sidelined him (and the other original Alice Cooper members) as just some of Alice-The-Singer's many backing musicians. On that topic, it's worth reading guitarist Michael Bruce's book No More Mr Nice Guy, if you can find a copy. Something worth remembering about Dunaway's playing is that he is a 100% plectrum user, and I'd say this is responsible for much of his tone and style. Pick playing's becoming something of a dying art among conbtemporary bassists (barely touch it myself, to be honest) but Dunaway's a masterclass in precision, speed & versatility with a lump of plastic! Jon.[/quote] Hi Jon Great to see another Dunaway fan!! I absolutely love Halo of Flies and Gutter Cats...!!! You made a good point about the pick playing, I was looking at some footage of Dunaway playing yesterday and he really is a master of the pick. It's definitely a dying art on the bass, other than 3 chord punk players who don't tend to have anywhere near the same technical ability as Dunaway. That's something I'd really have to work on, like you, I barely touch it, when I do, I find it hard to damp the strings. I messaged Dunaway yesterday and asked if he knew of any accurate transcriptions and he actually replied saying he would find out then sent me lots of great bass tips - you can't say fairer than that - I've found that there's so few of the old brigade that are willing to put any time into helping younger aspiring players. It would be such a pity to see that melodic style disappearing completely. I don't suppose you've got a copy of that book lying around?!

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='476436' date='Apr 30 2009, 10:15 PM']It was bloody brilliant!! He's an amazing character Alice Cooper; from being the 'devil incarnate' and Public Enemy No.1 back in the day, he's now a born-again Christian, golf-playing, all round good Citizen who's opened up music academies to help the disaffected youth of America!! Who'd have thought that would ever happen...[/quote] He IS an amazing character - and much of the music is vastly under-rated. It's just such a shame that the tracks that became known in the mainstream were the commercial ones and not the great rock and roll grooves! Like Cold Ethyl.....that bassline just f*cking GROOVES!!! Dennis Dunaway has absolutely fantastic phrasing. I only started listening to him closely a few years ago, in fact it was those basslines that really sparked my interest in the bass! He changed the way I listen to music....such an under-rated bass player! Wish I could find transcriptions!!!! Don't get me wrong, I love playing by ear but some of that rhythmic stuff would be really interesting to see written down.

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='475720' date='Apr 30 2009, 08:50 AM']Hi AM Yes; I've been an Alice Cooper fan since I was 11 years old and went to see him at Wembley on the Welcome to my Nighmare tour in 1975 (I think) with Prakash on bass. That was brilliant but I always wish that I'd seen the original line-up with DD on bass.. Along with Trevor Bolder, Bowie's bassist, DD was my first real influence and it was completely because his lines were either so melodic that they made the song great or, as was often the case, his basslines formed the core of the song! I think his work on the school's Out album is outstanding... Look forward to seeing you play when you're in that AC tribute band! [/quote] Hey Nik - bet that was an amazing gig! I'm a more recent convert, I wasn't alive in 1975 You're right, very often, the basslines form the song, I wish more bands still used this style, lead bass ROCKS! You have PM!