ShergoldSnickers

Tal Wilkenfeld Her recorded stuff on CD is great, but oddly on any videos showing her I just don't hear the bass.

[quote name='Beedster' post='923653' date='Aug 13 2010, 11:37 AM']LOL, both things we do (two sets of speakers and the car test). Good to know that without realising it was standard practice, we're doing things right![/quote] It's all a compromise - I tend to sway to the side of getting a mix that's reasonably dynamic and 'true' on the best speakers I use and sod the car mix - getting the car mix right usually involves too much compression and robs the music of the very dynamics I'm trying to preserve. Being in a band I have to compromise on this and usually wind up giving in. If it was totally down to me though I'd mix to get the maximum dynamic range, but this results in people complaining that the level is low on their CD players, compared with other CDs they play. Yes, the average level is lower because I'm not compressing everything to death, and the music is allowed to breathe. Do they not have volume controls on their gear? We develop a domestic music playback system capable of generating huge swings in dynamics and the end up using only the top 10 per cent of the headroom. Daft. To me anyway. Still, it's not worth getting terminally het up about. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war"]The Loudness War - this explains a bit more[/url]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='923633' date='Aug 13 2010, 11:23 AM']Buy your extra RAM from [url="http://www.crucial.com/uk/"]Crucial[/url] unless DV offer you a very good deal on it. An external Hard Drive that connects via FireWire (don't use USB for multi-track audio) for your audio files ONLY is an excellent idea - you'll get much better performance. However TimeMachine will not back up data on external hard drives so you'll need to look at alternative backup strategies and TBH I'd be vary about letting TM run while you're actually recording from a performance PoV.[/quote] All excellent points - Crucial are the place for RAM, and if you use the external for working audio file storage, then they won't get backed up by Time Machine - quite right. Maybe a manual copy over of audio files to the internal HD once a day, or using a folder syncing application set to run outside recording hours may be the way to go.

[quote name='Lozz196' post='923556' date='Aug 13 2010, 10:11 AM']Why oh why do people who record always get the guitarists set-up exactly as is used on stage, then do anything but use the bassists own gear to record with. Is it that they`re trying to cut corners, don`t know how to record bass properly, don`t regard the bass as an important part of the band, or all three? Would be interested to hear opinions from others who`ve experienced similar situations.[/quote] Only if there is a good technical or sound aesthetics reason, should the recording staff - or other band members - ignore the requests of individual musicians as to how they get their sound into the desk for the recording. By all means demonstrate a better sound to a player if you can get one, but to wind up with a bass buzzsaw is unforgiveable. Being told you couldn't be DI'd from your amp is just arrogant nonsense. You might be asked to set the amp flat, but even that should be just a request with an explanation as to why.

[quote name='Beedster' post='923512' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:22 AM'](should I order external HD or extra RAM with this?) Chris[/quote] An external HD for backup would be a really good idea. Macs come already loaded with Time Machine, an automated backup system that is simple to use and reliable. Last thing you need to do is lose all your precious work

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='923182' date='Aug 12 2010, 08:55 PM']Only if you're American! US: skeptic; UK: sceptic. Vive la différence![/quote] Got some American cousins - that'll have to do...

[quote name='silddx' post='922679' date='Aug 12 2010, 01:14 PM']EDIT: I think you mean "skeptic" though [/quote] Indeed I do That might have to go in the daily annoyances topic: Age and the ability to spell appear to be at odds. Increasingly.

Going round to a mate's house to listen to a new album he'd got... Larks Tongues in Aspic - King Crimson He hated it. It just massively clicked with me.

[quote name='silddx' post='922590' date='Aug 12 2010, 12:21 PM']I thought what I did sounded ok and I got a real buzz playing it! But I don't have jazz ears. So, calling all jazz cats, how did I do? Indeed, what [i]am [/i]I actually doing?! Is it childish and unsophisticated? Full of technical error? Should I be quite pleased with myself? Or am I deluded? Thank you [/quote] I'm no real judge but it sounded fine to me. I'm in a similar position - almost no theoretical knowledge, can't read, and I'm often trying this sort of thing out with varying degrees of errr... success. Well I've taken the plunge and had my first bass lesson in over 30 years' playing (on and off - more off than on). The way music was taught at school really put me off - BUT..... OutToPlayJazz has shown me that there is nothing to be scared of. I managed some stave and finger position reading and came away with lots of exercises to get the correct fingering for differing neck positions - something I was basically unaware of It looks like the bass stave can be your friend. The aim is to be able to play more intelligently because I know [i][b]why[/b][/i] I'm making the choices I do, rather then relying on trial and error and gradual osmosis from what appears to work. Get some lessons in - it's a real short cut to the osmosis method! A converted sceptic.

I can't fault anything Charic has said. Really great advice that appears to come from direct experience, an awful lot of thinking or both.

[quote name='Beedster' post='921620' date='Aug 11 2010, 02:09 PM']Thanks SS, good spot on the newer iMac models, I didn't realise DV247 are still offering the older ones. I'm certainly tempted to get the i5, and the 27" screen (you've picked the importance of that!). I'm increasingly aware that 25% of my budget could be gone on computer, software and desk, before I've looked at monitors, glass, mics, cables, acoustic treatments, and any building/infrastructure work, but I guess that's probably about right? Do you think I should buy the computer directly from Mac or from DV247. Not much in the price, but there could be important differences in other issues I guess? Chris[/quote] 25% of your budget? Hmmmm. It is amazing what you can get away with. We did our last album in a smallish fairly dead rehearsal room, all live. All on a Korg D888 8 track digital recorder. We dumped the raw tracks into Garageband and edited things and mixed there. Really simple, really immediate and kept the dreaded 'Why are we still setting up after two hours?' syndrome at bay. Not really sure about the DAW package as a percentage of the overall costs, but it seems about right to me in context. DV247 may be the better bet as you'll be able to build a relationship and hopefully get lots of recording specific questions answered. That's what I'd be aiming for...

[quote name='lee4' post='921603' date='Aug 11 2010, 01:52 PM']Proof of NWR needing sainthood can be found in the bass line for Rhythm Stick.[/quote] This is what makes him a great player. Does the magic when it is required, but can also take the back seat behind the back seats when the song requires it. A quality thinking bass player.

[quote name='Beedster' post='921453' date='Aug 11 2010, 11:45 AM']....into this: [url="http://www.dv247.com/configure/31"]http://www.dv247.com/configure/31[/url] Which I think (hope) will give me sufficient capacity for my needs over the next few years, that is, starting from home and eventually moving into a dedicated space once we've found the right one. I've a couple of questions about the above .... The iMac is not really upgradable. I'm no expert on computers, so am at the mercy of those who are! Given its current performance (3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 3MB cache, 4GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM, 1TB Serial ATA HDD, Slot-load 8x SuperDrive, ATI Radeon HD 4670, 256MB Graphics, Bluetooth 2.1 & Airport Extreme, running Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard), is this going to be sufficient to do the job in the short-medium term (i.e., in the 3-5years I anticipate it will take before I look to buy another)? Cheers Chris[/quote] Apple have just upgraded the iMac line-up, so it may be worth asking about a package that includes the newer models. So what's changed? Faster processor moving to the i3 from the Core 2 Duo and faster graphics processing. I'd go go for the i5 processor model (quad core processor) in either the new model guise or at a reduced price if it's still the old range they are offering - if you can beat them down on price over this. Worth asking them if they would knock something off for an older model. The quad core processor will give you not only more processing power, but also some future-proofing for advances in software. No matter how powerful a machine we buy, the application developers soon find a way to fill the headroom you thought you had. If you want to go the whole hog, there is an i7 processor iMac, but the i5 is a good choice for overall cost effectiveness. The 27" screen is absolutely gorgeous and on its own would cost a small fortune. You are going to be doing a lot of squinting at this screen - having a good one really makes a huge difference. Upgradeability. I've asked numerous PC friends what they've upgraded on their machines within the lifetime of the machine. Very little. RAM is the most frequent answer - the iMac is upgradeable here. Hard disk drives - some have put internal drives in, most went for USB externals. Only one friend upgraded the graphics card. So, I've really not missed any lack of upgradeability compared with my PC owning friends. If I was a serious gamer I might, but then I'd get a gaming console. You'll get a year's warranty, but it is worth looking at getting the Applecare deal that extends this to three years for £139. I had to use this on my previous iMac and it was a no quibble deal. It got fixed and returned quickly with no fuss and no cost - pickup and delivery back all included.

[quote name='witterth' post='921172' date='Aug 11 2010, 12:41 AM']You know, trawling through this makes me realise what a bunch of anally obsessed "self interested" bunch of door handlers we can be at times. so, somebody gets it wrong, a "bit", at times,isn't that good, or, any good at all,useless totally totally rubbish, well. good.....nobody DIED!! its music!! and if its not the best so what?? don't compare it to medicine/ surgery its not the same.....its not.....NEVER will be, if a doctor played a Bflat when it should have been a natural, who'd ever care? if he/she put the wrong tie in the wrong vien during surgery, it not just "oops" is it? again, Sssheeh I love this stuff, I suppose the fact I'm not that good makes me so defensive!! Ahh Well...Ha ha...[/quote] Excellent point, though I may think a bit differently if it was my living. When I play live it's inevitably to financially benefit others rather than ourselves - we do it for the fun of it all not the money, the money going to a cause, the venue or just some of the costs. We can afford to be sloppy, unprofessional and rather more uneducated in the intricacies of well crafted music than can Bilbo. Being objective, the improvised stuff we do contains: Time wandering Miss-timing Tendency towards 'modal' playing rather then a series of chord progressions with inventive key changes Over-reliance on technology at times Goes on too long sometimes I could go on... and on... The point is that we enjoy doing this stuff - it's not a chore, we are learning, every 'performance' is different, and we have a following that's building up. The fact they are all deranged inadequates similar to ourselves is neither here nor there, they applaud in the right places. For professional musicians, I can fully see what Bilbo is pointing out. For the amateur, generally non-paid - that's my band - the audience understands they won't get virtuoso ensemble playing, but on a very good night we can make something that sounds a bit like it.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad. Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong. The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url] This is even better... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote] "Don't just play something - STAND THERE!" (Apologies to the memory of Mr Peter Ustinov)

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='920028' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:32 PM'][/quote] Oi you lot - stop it. Sulks and slopes off to the Roles-Royce for a kip on the back seat whilst the chauffeur takes me to Betty's for profiterolls, the fishmongers for role-mop herring, and the doctors to look at me ear-rolls.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='920598' date='Aug 10 2010, 01:03 PM']..... although it's almost nobody's cup of tea. [/quote] That's usually my cue to sit up and take notice. A little investigation required I think.

As promised a photo of that Wilson Rapier bass: [attachment=56158:WilsonRapier.jpg] The amp is an HH V.S. Bassamp Combo, with a fretted Shergold Marathon leaning on it. Later swapped for the current fretless. Hull University gig in one of the smaller rooms. Halfway through the set I'd leap onto the step ladders and shave off the false beard as I solo'd. Heady days.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='919448' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:53 AM']I would specify that some of these people are dreadful. Its not that they are not 'brilliant'/of top professional standard, it is that they lack the skills to play the music they are attempting. They lack basic technique, they have poor time, nothing swings, poor gear/bad sounds, no idiomatic knowledge, they are lazy and don't concentrate when playing etc etc. In short, if I walk away from a gig thinking 'that was total sh*te'[/quote] It was nice of you to come and see us Bilbo - introduce yourself next time. I think you are totally right to do this if it feels right for you. There are certain stage, TV and movie actors who are very selective about the rolls they take on, and it usually does them immense good from the credibility point of view. Then there are others who will be seen in anything. No matter how bad. It eventually damages them.

[quote name='Wil' post='919454' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:56 AM']They still feel quite like rounds, albiet with a slipperyness that uncoated strings dont have. I'd say they would be kinder than regular rounds but they still might chew the board up given time.[/quote] I used to use roundwounds, and whilst they caused some wear, it's minimal and has taken years to get to this stage. I'll risk it I think. [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='919469' date='Aug 9 2010, 12:07 PM']I love my Elixirs...[/quote] Keep hearing this. I'm looking like a potential convert.

Still on GarageBand - the freebie that comes with new Macs. It's so immediate, with a clean and uncluttered interface, and it handles the raw audio track files that our guitarist's Korg D888 creates, and which gets used to record everything we do. As an improvising band, we like to keep the recording set-up simple, less set-up time and more playing. So, it's bass and keyboards straight in, guitar and drums mic'd. Rode NT4 for the overhead on the drums, CAD m179 for snare and hi-hat reinforcement and AKG D112 for bass drum reinforcement. Simple but it works. And yes, sod the mic bleed. The next upgrade would be to Logic Express - this is less daunting than full blown Logic, but is still enormously powerful. Logic express is around £165. At the moment this is academic, as I haven't really hit the buffers with GarageBand yet, and it's had lots thrown at it. Deceptively powerful.

I'd assume that being coated, Elixirs will be kinder on a fretless fingerboard than standard roundwounds? If so, I think I might get me some.

[quote name='Beedster' post='918702' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:04 PM']Thanks for the above guys Still doing a lot of reading and talking. I think that I'm going to buy a computer (no interweb access), software, controller and monitors and start running this set up in the spare room at home to familiarise myself with that end of the system, ahead of looking to integrate that into a larger dedicated space. Whilst most people seem to think Macs have the advantage, are there any cons with Macs or reasons I should look at a PC for this application? C[/quote] The underlying way that Macs handle audio is particularly good - using a thorough set of 'Core Audio' routines and API's (application programming interfaces): [url="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/WhatisCoreAudio/WhatisCoreAudio.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40003577-CH3-SW1"]Core Audio explained[/url]. This is from the point of view of those actually writing audio applications, not the end user, but it is informative nontheless even if a bit geeky. In practice, these core audio functions are handled at an OS level, rather than within the application. This leads to consistency of approach with most Mac DAW and audio applications on the Mac, and frees the developer up to concentrate on what the application does rather than worrying about how it does it. XP was reasonably OK at handling audio, but Vista and Windows 7 have brought many more of their own core audio functions to the OS level, so that it is more similar to Mac OSX. Apple have had longer to smooth out their technologies, and being a developer of audio and DAW applications themselves brings benefits. From a technology level I'd say things are a bit more even than they used to be, but that Mac OSX probably has a good edge. Just my opinion. My opinion becomes irrelevant though if you prefer an audio application only available on one platform. I'd look at the applications first - this may dictate your choice of hardware. You have to be comfortable with your software. I still use GarageBand, as my needs are not overly complex, but I know I have an upgrade path in Logic Express and then Logic if I need to go further. Having room to expand later is a necessary cushion whichever way you go.