Bean9seventy

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

I'm giving up.

Your comments are a nightmare to read and a total mess.

Can't you write simple sentences with a subject, a verb and a complement alongside the correct punctuation ?

If you have a message to pass, you have to learn the communication skills needed to do so, otherwise you'll loose all credibility.

Synthesise your thoughts, read and understand other users comments, ... and think before writing : everyone will thank you.

i am a street funk bass player ,, besides i think everything has been said on this topic ,,

many enjoined it ,, understood the angle ,,

will return with another

On 02/04/2021 at 08:44, drTStingray said:

The first time I heard or saw slap bass being played knowingly was Car Wash by Rose Royce (bass player Lequeint "Duke" Jobe). In fact the whole first album of Rose Royce is littered with it. The fact the song features slapped bass only breakdowns at the end of each chorus - and appeared on a popular feature film of the era, and a UK top 10 single leads me to suspect this was the biggest and earliest exposure of slap bass to the general public. 

Though Larry did it with Sly, and I saw Woodstock multiple times when the film first released, on those singles of the late 60s the slap bass is not really that audible - slap and pop is on Thankyouforletting etc etc and audible - but I hadn't heard that until about 20 yrs ago when it was referred to in a Bass Player article and I looked it up. The concept of properly audible bass, especially live, didn't emerge as a more general thing except in occassional situations (Andy Fraser for instance) until the early 70s (Acoustic and other solid state amps helped a lot). 

Rose Royce had been around for a good couple of years under separate guises prior to Car Wash and the slap bass had no doubt been a feature of Duke's playing previously given the amount and standard of it on that first RR album. In fact Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is features a slap/pop breakdown (again after every chorus) which is a direct lift of a Larry Graham fill (of which there are a cornucopia) from Graham Central Station's song Release Yourself. (I later found out LG was using double thumbing on that track - hence I could never get the sound right ) - it must be one of the most OTT bass parts I've ever heard - along with Hair from the same era - as with Funkadelic a herbal based studio fug can be imagined!!!! 

Except for Larry, I reckon it must have appeared on soul/funk tracks since at least 1975 as I was actually using it by then (although I was playing Jazz Rock and prog). Of course, Stanley Clarke used it quite a lot both with Return to Forever and with his own band - and the influence that turned him on to electric bass, Colin Hodgkinson also used it. 

For people like me who had heard it but not seen it, we didn't know they used their thumb and I for one developed a technique rather like Stan Seargent using a combination of tapped and heavily pulled strings to achieve the sound.

So @Bean9seventy I think it was probably popular from earlier in the 70s than you're thinking - maybe 74-75 (I think I copied some of Stanley Clarke (with Return to Forever) and Colin Hodgkinson (with Back Door) phrases). I also copied every LG fill off Release Yourself and used them all in my own playing. 

The world would be a far worse and bass playing would be a much less enjoyable and exciting place without it 😏 

The 1st time is saw slap ??

,, i was already "popping" strings on stuff like T-Connection "do what you wanna do" in 1977 ,, this i was taught by a guy i knew in an" un named reggae band " ,, so ? i met another brit funk band nearby who did "the entire" slap thing soon after ,, & i was sold ,

if i start naming names guys,, you would fall over ,, this is something i never do,, 

but i get nervous when i hear wired gent stories ,, i hear you man ,,  the hippy thing do not ring no bells,, dude  ,,, funk is a street sound ,,  

20 hours ago, Paul S said:

That's my view.   

great to find someone who can not understand their own view ;D

20 hours ago, Doddy said:

Slap had clearly gone worldwide well before the late 70s disco era, because the players who played the style on those tracks were already on to it. Although, admittedly, that era may have helped to bring it to the listening public. The music world was on to it and there were players who had already started to take it further.

That video probably wasn't about "let's find who invented slap". At that time, there were no instructional videos on any style of bass playing, so they got a bunch of big name players (Graham, Neil Stubenhaus, Verdine White, Chuck Rainey, Nathan East, and Abe Laboriel) to talk about their styles, and released 3 videos. Sure, Larry Graham's section features the slap technique, but so does Chuck Rainey's.

just because you find an LP on discogs don't mean millions of people when they were released was listening to them in say 1974 ,, yes there were hippys ,, yes there are what we now see as classic funk LPs from 1973 ,,,

in 1977 it went mega Viral ,,, you get it ,,, for about 3 years it was thee No1 thing ,, it is why we are all here ,, & then you learn about larry graham ,, never the other way round , thanks ,

19 hours ago, drTStingray said:

It certainly appeared with the Crusaders (Pops Popwell) before that late 70s era - they were very much jazz funk.

Thinking back, and the mention of famous players and instructional videos, I saw the Brothers Johnson when they were part of Billy Preston's backing band in the early 70s - quite by accident - they supported the R Stones on a UK tour - I'm pretty sure LJ was using the style even then - Billy Preston and his band were superb in fact blew the decidedly average main act completely off - the only saving grace was the Stones' tight rythmn section and the presence of the wonderful Mick Taylor on guitar. The rest was pure s**te!!! 

important point to the very ,, pops popwell really is the sound,, the band ,, the thing ,, that kicks starts Brit funk ,,, especially slap, as opposed to a say a UK soul band , the street value where Disco evolved so fast developing funk jazz ,, quickly renamed jazz funk is key ,,

the early hippy mentioned bands & uploaded had no traction ,,NB  this part of history often turns into arguments with bass players / folk who do not remember the 1970s ,

those same hippy bands rode the back of disco & came out on the other side in the 1980s & 90s as the red hot fusion bands everyone knows & fears today ,,

Thus the equation of slap ,,, you learn or see slap for the very 1st time ,, your amazed

And Then they tell you about larry graham ,,, never the other way round ,,, big points thank you

19 hours ago, Doddy said:

Louis Johnson always said that he developed his slap technique without knowing about Larry Graham. I believe that because even though they both slap, their techniques are very different.

agreed tho , i refuse to be judge over other users communications ,, in my books LG is very similar to hendrix ,, LJ was a new guy ,,also knowing something of " the foxy electric lady "  both had a mid west to west coast feel ,, yet as mentioned slightly different methods ,,

the breaking news on this is,, i had no idea until youtube how hard LJ attacked the bass ,, wow,  Thunderthumbs as a nick names is an understatement ,,

breakin new pt2 ,, ??  LJ says he never knew slap from LG ,, ?? wow , great topic ,, certainly something to check out , thanks

20 hours ago, prowla said:

This is the first slap bass that got my attention.

4:20

nice hippy gig ,, there is a band from japan i found on youtube getting some slap down on the old grey whistle test from 1976 ,,, will try to surf & find that , cheers

14 hours ago, ped said:

I’m local 

you know what mate >> ??  lol its a good point ,, when slap exploded round the world , 1978 - 1980 it was for some, like spam in monty python ,, others it turned into an ultimate critical speed battle on bass ,, 

more modest ,, its like be bop v pop music ,, slap did have a golden era , otherwise it would have disappeared faster than unlicensed 1632 hot dogs ,, lets dig one out , 

new york ,, big city ,, disco ,, soul ,, for 3 short years took over the world ,, 1977 - 1980

14 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

This needs posting again

The story he tells would have been 1961

the electric lady ,, nice post

13 hours ago, ped said:

Tbh Larry is entertaining and a great performer/story teller but like Bernard Purdie I suspect most of the stories are complete cow poop (but still fun)

well no? imagine the 1st guy who invented say a skate board ?.. or facebook ,, or Slap & it took say 10 years before folks say ,, after slap goes world wide from some typical euro type disco pop song in 1978 ,, folks say, who really invented it ? lets find him (larry graham ) & do a video ,,

that is what happened ,, by 1980ish teachers were teaching slap ,,with back up videos of LG many others

now, larry gets total respect & credit ,, the story of larry in 1970 ,, to world wide disco in 1978 .. those twilight years of larry to ron cater ,, to paul jackson ,, jazz ,

bootsy funk ,, & louis johnson who were the "new guys" in the frame , funk

Soul music,,??  motown had this pre disco tune ,, new york disco

13 hours ago, BoomTing said:

Monk Montgomery 1953  ---- NEXT

 

 

LOL we often refer to that as "wes" montgomerys brother ,, you get points for this even tho its a photo ,, reason why is because wes montgomeys brother ,, was into sharp & flat notes ,, could only got the method from miles ,, thanks

12 hours ago, MartinB said:

So the OP doesn't believe Larry Graham invented slap bass, and wants to find the true originator. I can only assume this is because they've invented a time machine, and are planning to go back and prevent slap from ever existing. I fully support them in their mission to create a future devoid of Level 42 👍

No we say the opposite ,,, Breaking News ,, anything jaggar could do Jimi could do better ,, & larry is the closet thing to jimi ,, hendrix is the missing link ,,

1968 was a big year ,, so these methods larry was using % ,, slap was the sound of the future ,, came true 12 years later with level 42 ,,

jimi was the main gig at woodstock ,, they all new larry graham, all knew larry was slapping ,,

it took 10 years before slap became a household theme ,,yes larry invented it ,, but took until about 1980 before folks be like ? we need to know this ,, sit larry down & show us

so ? it was the 1978 Disco era of Music & bass  that turned people "around the world" to slap 

some many great bass players later over those years after larry was at the top in 1970

here is a great example ,, Robert Popswell check it out

13 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Forgive me for pointing this out but you are not on a web log here.  This is a forum.  Also, you are not the first poster to open up this subject.  There will be discussion whether you like it or not.

The bottom line is that slap is a technique used by musicians, NOT a style of music in itself.  Having said that, it seems that there are quite a few that think that way.

I admire your tenacity on the subject.  I have a feeling that you have an axe to grind however.  I don't know where that comes from and really, I don't need to.  I wish you all the best on your quest, whatever it is.

interesting point ,, you make a movie ,, say it yours ,, then lose the rights ,,

could that in some way lean towards the point where larry did all the ground work of slap ??,, & waited 30 years before he could sit down & explain what he was doing ?

why folks thought i was against larry graham ,, when larry is the closest thing to hendrix ,, hendrix is the missing link ,, cheers

7 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Time to take your pills @Bean9seventy !

Mick Jagger can slap with his lips, for sure.

i want the full detailed ever dense ,, plus i am not taking me pills without me milk

8 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I could get quite accustomed to this double comma ,, thing ,,.

Perhaps it's a way of indicating that what is being said is definitely not a quote. I suppose it's a form of accentuation like when Spanish people put an upside down exclamation mark at the start of a sentence and another one at the end that's the right way up, just to emphasise the exclamatory nature of their utterance  e.g., 

¡My paella's been struck by lightning!

They do the same with question marks e.g.,:

¿Would it change my life if the earliest known footage of someone slapping a bass suddenly became available?

¡Fück, no!

 

just a blog ,, where you can say what you like ,, almost ,, & learn drum machine ,, :D

But wow ,, was jagger so far ahead of the game he put slap in the movie ,, ? we say yes

47 minutes ago, Doddy said:

Of course there won't be many (if any) video lessons around earlier than that, because no one was making them. DCI and Star Licks didn't start making instructional videos until '82 and '83, and even a show like the BBCs Rockschool wasn't on until '83.

Incidentally, that Larry Graham video was taken from the Star Licks Right Hand Bass Technique video which came out in '92, not 1980.

Back on topic, that video of Jagger is clearly not playing slap or from '68.

jagger is licking the guitar with his palm & thumb & plucking the strings with his index fingers in what today's teachers like Sotts Bass Lessons call the "see saw" motion,, not perfect, not shakatak or surface noise,  yet its something, its early,

btw Performance is one of "thee" classic movies, filled with micro details throughout , could this small jagger jam be another ? ,, we say yes ,, 

  lol there are no videos because no one was making them ; D ,,, the reason why is because there was not yet a market for slap until 1980ish ,, thus i thank you for pointing that out , its key to some of the reasons why i launched this particular blog , thank you

25 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Time to read this topic @Bean9seventy :

 

Alzheimer dyslexia maybe ?

You know that you can also use your fingers to get into your nose and play slap just after to "stick" to the beat ?

 

well ? i know a guy who can slap you an unlicensed hot dog from 1632

8 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Eh..? What..? Huh..? 

Many mistakes here...

1 - I've not posted a video, at all.
2 - You've mistaken me for someone that gives a hoot about slap bass, whenever or whatever.
3 - You've not taken those pills the nice Doctor gave you (again...)
4 - Your keyboard appears to be broken; random stuff appears on our screens, making little-to-no sense. (Yes, I've tried Google Translate; didn't work...).

I predict a riot short life to this topic. 

Awfully sorry man ,i typed the message in the wrong "user box" could not delete it , great you posted back giving me a chance to explain

30 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

+1

well ? the video you posted was not from 1970 ,,, the bass player in that video was not larry graham (he had left slys band by then) & seems you went in too hard ,, yet another reason why i am doing the blog

its another way of finding out how long my tale actually is ,, eg how long will it be before i get a thumbs down while standing in a queue in mothercare ?  

oh & i forgot to say The missing link is Jimi Hendrix ,,

if you read the heading ,, you might realize i posted this thread means i am hosting this post , why would i want to troll my own post ?

13 hours ago, Hellzero said:

@Bean9seventy Are you a revisionist ? Or maybe a conspiracy revisionist ? It's so hype today, I know...

You have all the proofs before your eyes that, at least, one person was playing slap before 1968 on a bass.

Do you understand what is written in all the comments here, because it seems that you don't ? I clearly wrote : "What about this more modern technique dating back to 1965..." Here, the more modern technique is referring to tapping not slapping.

That said who gives a f*ck about knowing who was the first to use slap... You know some unknown manouche guitarist certainly did some slap on his guitar way back in the 1940's without knowing that he invented a new technique.

Even if you have footage and evidences of the fact that Larry Graham already played slap in 1960, you'll keep denying the facts, because you've found that 1968 footage of a guitarist slapping a note (that nobody here can see) on a 1982 tune !?! Did he also invent that DeLorean time machine ?

And about the fact that there's no slap bass lesson video before 1980, urm, urm, do you know that these lessons were written lessons in magazines, in the early days...

Check this, but I guess you'll say it was recorded this year, no ?

 

came in strong without reading the tin ,,,

this blog is not about Who invented slap ,, this blog is about Finding the earliest video / movie / film clip ,,, so far its 1968 ,, with a close call from 1955 ,, another from 1632 was disqualified ,, because he had no license for his hot dog stand ,, 

quote # that there's no slap bass lesson video before 1980, urm, urm, do you know that these lessons were written lessons in magazines, in the early days... # end quote

answer ? just find the videos of larry graham Showing how he plays bass before 1980,,find Any video of Anyone showing how to slap bass before 1980ish ,,

as for magazines ? if i am not mistaken most were to promote Fender or the basic pop merchandise of the day ,, glossy images of The brothers Johnson who in 1976 were the new kids on the block ,,, ?? they don't count ,, 1976 is some years after 1968 ,

13 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I don't know what all the fuss is about. When I was a teenager back in the 70s, one of the sales assistants in my local musical instrument store in Loughborough was a bass player and when the shop was quiet, he would regularly break out a bit of slap bass on whatever bass guitars were on display. This was basically a "home organ" store rather than somewhere selling to "rock" musicians, and his musical tastes were some of the most mainstream I knew of. So he had definitely mastered slap enough to impress 17 year old me back in 1978 and someone must have taught him, because it's not a technique that you can work out from just listening to records without some pointers for how it's being done.

anyone who could slap bass in 78 would have got a shot at being a pro musician ,, / pop star

for anyone in 1978 to casually slap bass is ,, nah ,, they would have had to know someone in the industry ,, no myths or long stories here ,,

6 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

@Bean9seventy - Genuine question, why do you keep typing double commas ,, ? Is it something typically done in another language you speak? 100% genuine question, not trying to be disrespectful! 

you know what it is mate ,, ?? Drum programing ,, long before you was born ;D

12 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Don't worry, I'll post it for you 😁

More a ham-fisted blues guitar than pioneering slap technique.

I'm still puzzled by the Michael Jackson connection.

um ? i was uploading The Lady in My life bass jam mainly for Chris Tuckers circle of  respect pals ,, during learning the notes i saw the jagger movie ,,, it just hit me in one phat massive go ,,, thanks ,,

11 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Don't be so sure.

I think there are members who, like myself, have nothing to go on other than hearsay.  Electric bass and double bass, while not being mutually exclusive, tend to polarise players.  There are lots who do both but I don't think that they are a majority.

Personally, I am keen to learn about both.  I don't play an upright.  That isn't to say that I never will.

Slap, as it's generally known, has a lot of nonsense associated with it.  You yourself have said as much in your earlier posts.  To make sense of it, perhaps it is best to look at the whole thing.  I think this is important now more than ever as the lines between upright and electric bass are becoming blurred.

totally agree ,, yet this blog post is to find the earliest visual footage of the slap funk method ,, so far its 1968 ,, a1955 video was posted tho it never quite got into popping ,,

i did stress double bass slapping of rock n roll would be omitted ,, the search continues ,, thanks

10 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

That's Larry's popping technique right there.

totally agree ,, the blog is not on the method(s) its on finding the earliest footage ,, film movie ,video of slap ,, thanks