Bean9seventy

On 01/09/2018 at 08:32, Grassie said:

My comments suggest nothing of the sort. Are you drunk?

the same thing happened on you tube ,, in a jamiroquai thread ,, once a main question was required they switched off ,, too compelling ,,

your comments suggest ,, the 1st group of UK Slappers including myself had no influence on MK ,,

your saying its not right ,, & you want evidence ,

the evidence is easy ,, if we had no influence on MK

Q ,WHY DID HE RIP OFF OUR BASS LINES ,, 5TH TIME /

thank you ,,

2 hours ago, Grassie said:

Yes. Could you clarify the above quote please? As a non-cryptic answer.

your comments suggest MK ,,  directly went along to rip off bass lines  bass players & bass methods ,, fashion style & fans bases ,, from people he intentionally ignored ,, or thought nothing of ,, & still ignored , no matter what ,,

they had no influence on MK whatsoever ,,

so ?/ why did MK , Clone their bass lines , ??

its the 3rd time time you haven't explained this reason ,,  question, ? why did MK  copy their bass lines >>

1 hour ago, Paul S said:

You know, I have been following this thread since it started and still have absolutely no idea what the point of it all is.  Anyone else confused?  Bean9seventy - you seem to have invented a whole new way of punctuation, let alone bass playing.

 

On topic - or is it?  - I do recall Mark King saying in an interview that he started playing the way he plays because he wanted to play like the start of 'Rise' by Herb Alpert.  Which does sound exactly like a slowed down version of Love Games.

great ,,, herb albert was a massive dance tune ,, what i call a studio 21 beat ,, big Soul gigs liked slower music ,, easier to get 100s all moving at the same time ,, the floor floor Hand Clap , so important to the beat ,

thus jazz funk was coined ,, at that time ,, shakatak capitalized on that sound ,, Imagination too ,,

an exaggerated  over step beat , dominated the early 80s ,, which is a different topic ,,

i go to LBGS  every year & meet the organizers of bass chat uk ,, & promised i would join their site ,,

so one day i got a prompt from reddit saying someone thought i said i was UKs 1st slap bassist , so i started this thread to explain what i meant ,, 

now we are up to ,, i don't know what you mean ,,

s ,,  welcome to aol

19 hours ago, Grassie said:

You said it.

so ? why do " think " MK would rip off bass lines from people he totally ignored as "no body people" & rip off  their fashion sense & their fan base ,, ?

what you think could be true ,,

your insistence , opens up that rabbit hole as a possibility ,, maybe that is exactly what he did ,,

as for me ,, i don't like show biz , i don't like " the music industry << wont go near them ,, 35 years i have been like that <<

but after meeting MK @ The LBGS he made it quit clear in post interviews he was Not how you think  ,, by a long chalk ,

he remembers us ,, he knows who we are ,, the other bass players i know,, i grew up with ,,  are his friends , eg people he knows very well ,, like Tubsy ,,

the longer the post went on ,,

is there anything else ??

22 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I don't think so - the signigicant addition to your History item is the UK dance scene and its influence on bands and Britfunk of the time (and thus MK and Level 42) and the fact that MK was almost certainly influenced by his music shop interfaces of the time. 

Its similar really for instance to the inter relationship of rave music and the rave scene of the late 80s/early 90s. 

 

I will not comment on the rave scene out of respect to other underground DJs i know who are experts of the history of rave ,,

even tho i was in an Acid Rave band at the time ,,

i am not on the recording ,,, tho i did sit in with the above "as their " live bass player " for a few gigs to promote the group ,,

16 hours ago, funkgod said:

The LP for me that took slap to a new level was Level 42 Level 42 i only got the early tapes later on when it was rereleased not even knowing about the first untill i read the foot notes on the LP,

i know this is about uk slap players but just as an interesting point, while slap bass has been around a long time for double bass players, the earliest i know of was the ink spots releasing a track called "slap that bass" early 30s and even later on joe haymes released it also, tho on the jo haymes version there is no bass slapping the part was done in finger style tho no doubt on the ink spots version i can hear slapped notes or pulled at least.

,,,,

yes ,, slapping bass has been around a long time certain in fact i have seen UK  rock n rollers slap double bass before i even knew about music ,,

great call ,, in so much as highlighting the switch from be bop jazz , into pop music ,,,

we call rock n roll "southern be bop" ;D

thank you

19 hours ago, lowdown said:

It seems that in 1977, Disco Dancers (well Americans) had perfected the Art of 'Slap & Pop' air Bass.

Check out 0:16 during the intro.

no low down ,, they all were taught by MK ;D , he invented slap nor LG ,,

Butt they never got it right ,, they are slapping their belly buttons ,, they should be slapping their chins ,,,,

22 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I don't think so - the signigicant addition to your History item is the UK dance scene and its influence on bands and Britfunk of the time (and thus MK and Level 42) and the fact that MK was almost certainly influenced by his music shop interfaces of the time. 

Its similar really for instance to the inter relationship of rave music and the rave scene of the late 80s/early 90s. 

 

my  comment is correct , & backed by other comments  without fans you don't have a scene ,, whether it was 1956 , with rock ,, 1976/77 with punk & disco ,,,

if you are So instant , why did MK Rip off bass lines ? from people he totally ignored with intent, perhaps with  complete contempt  , where he had no interest in their abilities & style whatsoever no matter how Big they were in the industry ,, like a reality tv panel where he would 1 million% ignore ignore ,, shut his eyes put his fingers in his ears & sing lalala i am not listening ,, then rip off the entire scene , & ?? BASS LINES ?? ,  oh yes ,, he was not the 1st to wear his bass high up , ,, with tight pants & slap

its crazy talk ,,

"what you think" bears no relation to what other people "Know"

yes , it was almost the same with punk ,, tho the pistols & strangles etc were formed in the mid 70s ,, steve strange ran a club called the blitz that became the centre for the new romantic movement ,, dozens of bands were formed ,,, from  George O'Dowd to spandu ballet ,, steve strange refused to let me into his club ,,

tho i "slightly disagree with the rock comment ,, normally who ever was the best on guitar kept his/her post & the other guitarist if they wanted to stay in the band played bass ,, sometimes ,,,,

yes , the disco movement in SE of england was in almost par with america we believed we had better dancers ,, & better clothes , in the sense of dance groups like hot gossip  ,, all we needed was our own bands & music ,,

as an elite dancer  who went to all the best clubs winning completions sometimes dancing with hot gossip in clubs ,, when i 1st saw slap i became a bass player  almost over night , 78/79,

,,, again as you say they were players who would pop the strings ,, i was popping strings before i saw slap ,, ( the complete thumb pop method ) on a flat wound bass even on guitar  i was a rhythm guitarist , before i saw the deal on bass

so again,, here is a song that you can  say was one of the 1st songs people in the uk would pop ,,, not slap ,,, thanks ,,

8 hours ago, Grassie said:

My point (which you seem to have missed entirely) is that you’re claiming that because you and some friends of yours went into a shop where Mark King worked, and played some slap bass while he may or may not have been listening, this directly influenced him and his playing style for which his is most famous. 

I’m merely asking you to provide a bit more proof than merely saying ‘this happened, so it’s fact’ based on the assumption that he’s never (in any of the interviews I’ve seen/read in any case) mentioned being influenced by customers venturing into the shop he once worked in, and them playing slap lines. 

Its not about defending him, it’s about proving your claim. 

right ,, they were not just a " bunch " of players ,, they are the players that started brit funk ,, plus

look in soho there is a sign out side of a coffee bar that reads The is The Birthplace of British Rock  april 1956 ?

it was started by teenagers who wanted to form bands , brit funk was "exactly the same ,, the 1st brit funk gig was 1977/78 a band called hi tention  & Tubsy was in the crowd ,,

meanwhile the players who met louis johnson & bootsy @ the gig in london via " the fraternity " were already funking the hell out of baas guitars   they knew heatwave they knew everyone AWB  motown every DJ   you care to mention

they are the facts & this story is the evidence ,,,

so ? if MK totally ignored the most funkiest soulful people in the UK & their mega star supporting fraternity every time they went to Denmark St ,  why did he rip off their bass lines ??  ,, in fact why did he even bother to slap ? ,

On 19/08/2018 at 07:10, TOMAS said:

Thanks for that for that info, must see if I can find some footage/audio. I lived my whole life up 1999 in the Glasgow area. I do remember the name Croppa but never seen them live. I use to hang out in McCormicks on Saturdays they was young funk  player who was acceptoonal unfortunately do no his name. There was also a older guy that use to hang out at CC music Gary Denyer he had the Louis Johnson vibe nailed.. great to chat to you.

The AWB posts are pages back ,,, we are talking about brit funk ,, not international soul acts ,, nevertheless AWB were behind 1 or 2 of the 1st brit funk slap players " via lessons , "stage craft " & song writing also Heatwave & The Olympic runners ,,

Paul Tubsy Williams is the " closet " thing to UKs answer to Larry Graham , perhaps more closer to Our own Louis Johnson as Tubbsy probably was not the 1st to slap ,, lets celibate that  , get loose , & loose the gentrification ,,

Funk is street music ,, & Disco is Disco music ,, & brit funk slap in the UK began in those places  ,, anything else ??

On 27/08/2018 at 09:53, Grassie said:

No, I don’t think this is correct at all. At least, I haven’t heard him say anything of the sort on tape or in print. 

It is possible you know, that when Mark picked up a bass he did his own thing more or less straight away, influenced by Mr Clarke et al.

How do you know? 

Do you mean “contemporary music”? And Ali G???

Im confused... 🧐

No ,, after the somewhat disappointing run on the Aretha Franklin tribute ,, even to a point David Bowie ,what happened in 1977. 78 is now too long ago , not just to remember , but also to be relevant to today's world ,,

so stop  thinking MK ,, & starting thinking "Disco" ,, the reason why Clarke was noticed in the uk  is because he was being plugged in "Rock" music mags ,,, so MK  read about Clarke ,, in his shop ,, meanwhile 2 / 3 years earlier while king was doing " Nothing ", you had bass players in the uk already recording slap , yeah ,,  its just i refuse to tell you who those bassist are out of respect , ok ,

so , we all agree Larry Graham was the 1st Slap funk player of all time  , yeah ,, strange how when you hear the UK  story ,, from Someone who was "actually" there (eg Scotts Bass lesson wasn't even born then ) ,, you now get replies ,, like MK  did it himself , look, he Saw bass players like myself &  "" Tubbsy "" & others go into his shop, laying down the slap " Fact " , End of , lets move on ,, No , Butts , its true , did the truth hurt ?

 Al Jolson to Ali G  , the continuing story of open exploitation of Jazz Rock & Soul ,,

yes , there was no slap bass lessons in any colleges in the UK  until 1980 ,, in 1978.79 , the list would read ,, classical / jazz & " contemporary " music ,,

if MK  did it all by himself why did he use this bass line & use it for Mr Pink ,,?

meanwhile Tubbsy ,, took this same bass line ( @ 3 mins 30 secs , years earlier , from The Crusaders ,,  a track called Cosmic Reign ,, i call it the bass line that started brit funk ,, not to be taken literally ,, but conceptually ,

finally ,, you can see peeps all trying to defend MK ,, i knew this would happen ,, & the excuses to defend MK are getting weaker by each post ,,, the tread is not about MK its about the 1st UK  Slap players  ,, i was not the 1st ,, i was part of a circle of players who were,,

anything else ... ???

On 19/08/2018 at 19:30, Grassie said:

Basic Level 42 early history goes like this:

Mark King played drums in various Isle of Wight bands in the mid 70's, cover bands playing holiday camps and hotels. His path crossed with original L42 drummer Phil Gould, and both shared a love of progressive bands such as Return to Forever and Mahavishnu. They would sometimes share drum duties during gigs. Mark also played with Phil's brother Rowland (Boon) Gould.

At some point Phil Gould left the island to study at Guildhall, where he met Mike Lindup. Boon had travelled up to London to try to get gigs and Mark shortly followed for the same reason. At this point Mark was intent on becoming a drummer. 

Phil, Mark and Mike would get together in the evenings at Guildhall to jam on songs they knew and to try out ideas. Initially they had Dominic Miller on guitar but he stopped turning up for rehearsals and so they asked Boon to join instead. Mark was happy to try bass because he regarded PG as the better drummer and wanted to be in a band with his mates.

I have not read anywhere that MK picked up a bass because he heard some blokes playing in the shop he worked in. That is actually incredibly presumptious and more than likely a little inaccurate IMO.

Mark as always maintained his bass influences were Stanley Clarke, Colin Hodgkinson and Jack Bruce, and that his style of slap playing was a natural extension of his drumming skills i.e. playing polyrhythmic patterns between the two hands. 

The first bass line MK ever wrote was for "Love Meeting Love", a fingerstyle line, and Mark worked in Macari's, which is in Charing Cross Road.

😊

yeah ,, MK was taught by one of the guys who worked in the shop right ?  ,, but even he was not the 1st person to slap the bass ,, we know , people in college or music shops & those types will air brush out the fact that people were doing slapping on the street , in clubs 1st  ,,, there was a thing going on , man ,, called Disco

Funk did not start in a college or in a shop ,, or any of the names called out ,,  B.O.O.T.S.Y , with Louis Johnson ,, the London Gig ? ,, Louis Johnson = Larry Graham 2.0 ,,  only people part of the funk fraternity were shown 1st hand the deal on slap  ,,

its just that out of respect i will not mention the other bass players ,, only " Paul Tubbsy Williams " ,, who also went to the music shops ,

we know MK was not slapping the bass until he saw " us " ^ meaning the 1st handful of uk slap bassists ^ like Tubbsy

btw if i am not mistaken there were no college courses on slap bass in the UK until 1980 ,, before that it was called temporary music or jazz

from Al Jolson to Ali G ,,

On 21/07/2018 at 12:26, songofthewind said:

Oddly, I don’t recognise any of those names, but I’m pretty sure I saw Chaconne. I just about remember Jimmy Grant’s!

Great to reminisce with you, Eddie! I think we’ve hijacked this thread! Maybe there needs to be a Caledonian Club thread on Basschat..

All the best

Stu

all i can say to the recent above threads is that the average white band AWB from Scotland did play a part in helping some of the 2nd wave of brit funk players ,,, we herd their names mentioned whether it be ,, bass lessons stage craft ,, or just name dropping ,,

the key to this thread ,, is to let people realize brit funk was a simple grass roots upwards event ,, disco dancers who now wanted to create the music they danced to ,, whilst today in the UK, funk is a mainly gentrified middle class past time where they cleverly air brush out the origin of brit funk ,,

eg everyone talks about Larry Graham etc no one talks about Paul Tubsy Williams & others ,, these are the people who gave us brit funk ,, no one else ,,

there will be a few exceptions to the rule ,, but we know exceptions only end up proving the point ,,

again,, the thread title says Bean9seventy the 1st uk slap bassist ,,

No i was not the 1st uk slap player ,, but i was one of just a handful of players that were ,

i am not stamping my feet taking it too serious ,, its just something i never thought about ,, & its worth mentioning some 40 years later ,, especially to those who buy the air brush theory ,, never knowing who jumped on the band wagon then erase the history when they jump on ,,

as we know who ever wins re writes history ,, to certain extent they have already re written the history of brit funk ,, in their own image ,,, thus what i post is an account in many ways of what they do not want people to know ,,

remember there was only a " handful " of slappers ; D  ,, so there is no point asking Anyone else ,, they were not there ,,

7 minutes ago, lowdown said:

Do you remember their track 'Walking Into Sunshine'?. I thought it sounded like it was heavily influenced by Gene Chandler and his track 'Get Down'....

 

 

Central Line - Walking Into Sunshine.

 

Lober had some underground dance hits on his early LPs thus Jazz Funk was here ,, tho early on some called it Funk Jazz ,,  a great chicken v egg thread ,,

yeah the Lober bass player was tight ,, slightly dry ,, with his own logic in transition points ,,

gene chandeler was a big disco track very well known ,, 

central line was part of the dawn of the 80s ,, as disco sucked a new era was already in place ,, & no one on line talks about its significance , its absolutely key in the history of the bass & music 

a different story  & thread lowdown thanks ,,

8 hours ago, lowdown said:

Maybe, but as far as I know, Fish Slapping started in London.

 

icelandic funk started hearing it post 1980  ,, guys ? its best to stay on the beat ,

tho it was great to know people in iceland were right into the music ,, meezoforte were part of the satellite circle of brit / euro & Scandinavian funk & were herd on London only soul station radio invicta at that time ,,

its hard too think of comedy being part of brit funk ,, but alas true , when one thinks to put to the thread there is a very strong link between dads army & brit funk band central line ,, puts all kinds of slapping slappers & followers in too context thanks lowdown

2 hours ago, lojo said:

It all started for me when I heard "Cool Jerk" in the mid 80s whilst at school , I then got deeper into northern soul , and into the funk stuff , think my first funk record was a Headhunters album , and for Disco introduction I brought Saturday Night Fever and got almost bullied for it 😀

 

there are very very very strong claims saturday night fever was based on the wigan casino ,, tho some of us prefer to dispute the claim ,,,

we say it was based on the global village , or The Lyceum Ballroom  music wise dance wise &  story wise ,,

the Bee Gees were slightly bias ,, lol ,, never mind ,, good point , thanks

1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said:

Paging @Les

Some counselling might be required here Les.

Sorry, Misdee.  We had the showband thing going on.  I was going to dances in the seventies and eighties.  I lived in the countryside and I had to put up with the rural stuff until I left home.  The showbands were the only thing to draw crowds in from the sticks.  They'd cover tunes with a sort of wannabe American twang that sounded shyte to me.  They never played soul.  It's doubtful that it would be tolerated by the older ones in the community.

When I got to Dublin I went to discos and live events.  I saw Clapton at the RDS.  Slane Castle was another good venue that I went to for the first few years.  I saw Bowie's Spiders from Mars show there.  We heard Simple Minds playing at Croke Park three miles from where we lived just by opening the window of our kitchen.  Happy days.

Yeah, fights, lots of those in the rural dance halls.  We'd line up usually in two factions and I think it was just excess energy fuelled by drink because I never knew why we were always scrapping.  No-one got maimed usually though.  I was always able to avoid getting caught in fights in the city.  It's not the same now.  You seem to need a stab vest wherever you go.

Like Bean9seventy says, it takes a bit of hindsight to understand some of the origins of what we take for granted now.  I am only today catching up on a lot of stuff that went on right under my nose.

the core of the UK soul movement throughout was 100 % not into fighting ,, tho sometimes things happened ,,

disco was studio 54 ,, after disco sucks ,, it was  eg 2 step nightclub music ,, i guess nightclubs were all about who you were & how much money , who has the biggest car ,

nightclubs could be seedy places ,, sometimes in london you would get a real good vibe tho ,

this is not the kensington roof gardens ,,  the however clip captures the moment

1 minute ago, drTStingray said:

When we played that song in clubs you could see people at the front saying to each other in a slightly outraged/shocked way "they're singing we want a f**k"

A bit like "Get the f**k outa my face" - I'm sure they these guys wrote them to sound like this!!

Spookily we covered several of those you mentioned but also War and Brass Construction (Brass Construction were played a lot in clubs I went to (before playing in the band). 

good point

3 hours ago, timhiggins said:

I always thought that Doug Rauch's superb playing with Santana must have had a big impact on the full on more rhythmically busy slap approach to playing ,and this is from 72 

 

the problem with back cataloging is that it can help others to side step air brush out what they don't want to hear ,,

this happened a lot in the 1990s with DJs who were digging out stuff no one had herd ,,to them, the rarer it was the better ,, now it sounds good , compared to stuff like Chic that we have all herd millions of times ,

yes  we have already been through that ,, you cannot just visualize bass slapping until you actually see it 1st ,, people who brought the above LP in 1972 would have had no idea what the bass player was doing unless they actually Saw what he was doing ,

if the above bassist / circle of associates  went on to record dance music , then you might expect his tread to be located somewhere by the funk movement , the rest is in hindsight , thanks

15 hours ago, lojo said:

Not sure , ive not understood some of the replies , are we trying to figure out who was the first U.K. Born bassist to record slapping ?

 

 

 

 

no ,, i decided to open a thread on a comment posted on reddit ,, where a user said i said i was the 1st uk slapper , i did not say that , i was in the 1st Wave of players ,,

& the other comment also said i claim to have directly influenced MK ,,

yes i did go into his music shop,,  yes he wasn't into bass yet , yes buy seeing what we were trying to do on bass probably hastened MK to quit drums & get into slapping ,, but to be the direct main influence ? is out of context

there were other bass players MK saw much better than myself ,, but in those days there were only a handful ,, & i was one of them ,

thoughts & opinions ?

7 minutes ago, lowdown said:

My first club experiences were all about 'The Sound Of Philly'. Just loved that period (still my guilty pleasure).

 

god bless american music ,,

thus my main mission was not to be a good bass player ,, but to learn how to be more of an american on bass ,,

not to use a variate of funk techniques on bass ,, but to become funk itself ,, to be an American funk bassist ,

youtube really helped , tho i am still at beginners levels after all these years ,

i would rather play 1 note of real raw funk / 1 pop of booty disco ,, than a million mile long bass solo cloned from a six string guitar  , thanks lowdown

11 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

I first heard Bootsy on Flashlight in a club - and on other Parliament stuff which I had to learn as I was fortunate enough to get the bass job in a soul/funk band in the later 70s, which gradually morphed into disco/funk. The main men were Jamaican and had an encyclopaedic knowledge of black music since the 60s - hence covering bands like Fatback and Parliament.

If you saw Bootsy with Funkadelic they had up to 40 odd people on stage, with three or four bassists and each song went on for about 30 mins - you couldn't really pick out who was doing what and it was more of an experience than a gig/concert - a bit like a fink version of Zappa!! Except that squelching bass sound ha ha!! 

in the UK people only knew, herd of Boosty via one song

a 7 inch single that was part of a bundle of 7 inch records ,, bt express , fatback band , ohio players , cameo etc ,,, that's why i didn't go to the gig ,,

known as " we want the funk "

however there were a few magazines & articles on Bootsy at that time that were praising the Pinocchio theory & his genius  ,, but i was not a bass player yet & took little notice

24 minutes ago, lojo said:

As I funk , soul and disco fan who was only a toddler in the 70s I like this thread, nothing new with regards to bands for me but to hear you guys where playing and heard this stuff first hand is exciting.

My route in was through Northern Soul 

i remember when northern soul came down to london , they were still into 60s Motown music wore clothes from 1972 ,, & never danced to the beat of the music ;D

they also had a chance to see punk rockers for the 1st time , as they would have a 30 min spot of punk in certain discos ,

thus underground disco & punk were side by side in the history time line

11 minutes ago, lowdown said:

Yeah, probably true.

I was playing on Cruise ships out of Miami in '76 and 77. Every weekend when in port, we would hook up with American musicians from other ships.

They would suggest music for us to check out and listen to. In fact, it was in a local bar in Miami when I first saw/heard slapping in public.

how did you feel ?? ,, realizing that's how they created that sound ,,, as a dancer ,, i had to get a bass