Bean9seventy

2 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Lol.......

They still call the Police, if you are caught slapping these days in public.

 

Interesting thread.

yep ,, lowdown ,, in covent garden great big sign , no bass slpping

it was after the disco sucks saga that we began to back catalog P Funk & LG ,, Hendrix Pink Floyd anything with LSD ,

i became The Red Imperial Player ,, from the concept D,O,P,E department of pure energy ,, from the brothers of funk , thanks ,

28 minutes ago, lowdown said:

But wasn't that the same with Bootsy in this country? All these American Bass players were a word and mouth thing for us musicians.

Stanley, Bootsy, Jaco etc, not something that we heard very often in clubs or on the mainstream radio? You had to go and search it out.

The 'BritFunk' thing the OP was talking about was different of course, quite often a lot of radio play.

larry graham was too deep for the UK at that time

his only hit was a ballad with no slapping called "1 in a million " his LPs did not feature in any of the discos ,,

undisputed truth , brass construction , were massive during the mid seventies ,, just before the disco era began ,,

11 hours ago, lowdown said:

When you say ‘source players’, why no, or little interest in Larry Graham at the time, Bean9Seventy ?

Just Curious really. Because ‘Ain’t No ‘Bout-A- Doubt It’, by Graham Central Station (1975), was as funky as funky gets. Certainly what a few of us whipper snappers were listening to at the time, and thinking how is he doing that? His thumb must be made out of rubber. 

 

 

 

And surely you must have been huddled around a record player or rewinding cassette tapes trying to learn ‘Pow’ in 1978? 

 

 

when scotts bass lessons interviewed victor wotten victor also said he didn't know much about larry graham ,, thus the larry graham story(s) you hear from other players is a kind of myth ,,

when ever i land at these questions i always say ,, people only discover LG After they learn to slap bass ,, never before ,,

even tho LG is ( rightly) credited as the main source of slap ,, it was only after people around the world went slap happy that the larry graham story was revealed to all ,,

yes i do remember people getting into LG ,, but it was so personal & intimate ,, we would never out of respect copy or get involved ,,

today & for many years people like scott ( great guy ) would simply jam LG ,, but back in 1975 ? etc if you were caught playing LG Bootsy " chocolate city " etc ?  people might call the police ,,

thus LG & co were still very much xxxx level & a deep respect had to be for fitted ,,

thus everything we hear about LG  from other bass players " chat " is about 1980s on wards , thanks , lowdown

12 minutes ago, lojo said:

Not sure , ive not understood some of the replies , are we trying to figure out who was the first U.K. Born bassist to record slapping ?

 

 

 

 

not quite right ,, someone on reddit said i said i was the 1st uk slap bassist after watching a youtube video

  ,, i did not say that ,, but maintain i was in the 1st wave of uk slap players ,,

he also said , i personally influenced MK ,, also not true , but i did play bass in his shop & others Before & during the time MK worked in denmark st  ,

meaning i was one of a handful of bass players he saw ( not herd as we already discussed ) that could have probably possibly made him switch from drums to bass. as slap was the No1 latest thing in music back then , only a few players knew the method ,, in the UK

the source players are Bootsy & The Brothers Johnson with Robert Popswell as the bassist we wanted to be & sound like ,

45 minutes ago, visog said:

So where did we land on this? I remember seeing MK doing 'The Chinese Way' on ToTPs and buzz it created was unbelievable! Who's the guy playing Jaco lines and 16ths?!!!

Didn't see or hear much of the other players mentioned on this thread. Think I did catch a Stanley Clarke show on BBC2 in '79/''80 (same week as a showing of 'Shadows and Light' by Joni) when I'd just bought a bass. Stanley was playing some slap as well as all his descending 16th triplet shred lines. And he play played a Carl Thompson piccolo which was erm, unusual.

This one from '82 if it helps: 

 

when i uploaded this jam i had no idea MK worked in a music shop, yet,

so, all i had in the back of my mind during the take was i knew the original brit funk bass players before this LP was made , thanks ,

2 hours ago, lojo said:

Sorry I don't get this ? 

sorry i thought you was lowdown ;D ,, i think i have texted enough on this thread , at the moment , unless there is anything else ?

44 minutes ago, Misdee said:

I was about in those days and remember only too well what things were really like.The  mid - to - late  1970's in Britain is not a time I am particularly nostalgic about, for all kinds of reasons.  School disco dancing exhibitions would be one of those reasons.

I also remember the BritFunk movement all too well. Sorry to say it, but much of that music was a second-rate imitation of it's more sophisticated American inspiration. Listening back now, most has not aged well. A very notable exception would be the Average White Band. They were one ( perhaps the only one ) of the very few British bands who were playing  funk/soul music in such an authentic and convincing manner that they enjoyed great success in the USA. They were also notable in that they attracted a multi-racial audience in America - a phenomenon far less common in the 70's than now.  American listeners thought AWB's music sounded just as good as it's US equivalent.

Also, it is my recollection that people were well aware of the  jazz funk and soul music that was coming out of the USA during that era. It certainly wasn't like today where you can go on Youtube and get slapping lessons from Victor Wooten, but records featuring bass techniques like slapping were everywhere. When I had my first bass lessons in a provincial town in the North of England about 40 years ago, the chap giving me tuition knew all about slapping and his technique was perfectly legitimate and correct. It might not have been the information age we live in now, but players still had enough ingenuity and know-how to work out how to play new techniques. In fact, I would venture that musicians were actually better at working out things by ear precisely because  they weren't being spoonfed as they are today.

i hear what you say ,,  disco people were really into American music , its the music discos & dancers rated most of all , brit funk was all about fans in clubs who wanted to play American music on instruments in bands ,,

one of brit funk missions was to eventually learn how to produce music as good as the Americans ,, that event of "crossing the bridge took place in the mid 80s ? with jaki graham , mica paris etc lisa stansfield ,

i agree brit funk tracks can be fly dropping cheesy , bad mixing ,, because many tracks were recorded in punk rock studios ,,  bad deals , the MTV saga ,

but however the story goes, it all started here ,,, paul tubbsy williams hi tension atmosphere & freeze , later with central line level42 & incognito ,,etc & they got it from ??  Bootsy & The Brothers Johnson ,,  ??

it can not be air brushed out of history or side stepped , yes ,, there will be exceptions to the rule but they will only prove the point  thanks ,

2 minutes ago, lowdown said:

I’m chilled, ol’ Bean, really. Like I said, you just started to lose me.

 

 

right on , lowdown  eg ,, Greg Edwards , as advertised on capital radio along side kenny everet who played at londons 1st pub disco

4 minutes ago, lowdown said:

You lost me dude....

cool down lowdown ,,,, take it easy ,,

3 hours ago, lowdown said:

Although not labelled as ‘Brit Funk’, ‘Olympic Runners’ & ‘ Gonzalez’ were two British Funk/Disco bands that were very active from about 1974 onwards. Bassist DeLisle Harper and Drummer Glen LeFleur were in both bands. A couple of funky players who played on quite a few sessions in the 70’s.

1976

 

 

1976

 

 

yes along with billy ocean & others the 3 degrees ? ,,, it was soul music before the big bang ,, in 1978 the Olympic runners launched them selves at the london disco finals of the world dsco champ ,, using star wars props ,i should know , i was on stage with them ,

The Real Thing lowdown ,,, you know # lord woodbine #

2 hours ago, lowdown said:

Maybe before that. I actually saw them on one of their first gigs. That was at the ‘The Black Prince’ in Old Bexley in 1973. Not long after that they popped off to the States.

no ,,lowdown ,, we call out the average white band ( & others ) not as a names ,, but as a bands that were helping the other bassists , yeah ,,, so when we went to the music shop eg MK worked in ,, we were with ? people from very small circles ,,

4 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I like the quote from this:

"Disco music is funk with a bow tie. —Fred Wesley, James Brown’s trombonist."

In this article, it is said that disco started as early as the sixties in sophisticated dance clubs in Paris and New York.  It became more widely known in the seventies because of its popularity in the gay underground dance clubs in New York and those sophisticated Parisian clubs.

@Bean9seventy; Thanks for the Arlene Phillips' Hot Gossip clip.  If my memory serves, I saw that for the first time on one of Kenny Everret's television shows.

yes disco is a french word , its been around a long time , the same as music venues have been around a long time ,, but we all know eg punk rock was different , thus from 1977 - 80 disco had a defined elite sub culture ,

since the late 90s people either side step or air brush the issue away ,, its like they refuse to accept Brit funk was born & who the Real parent were ,, instead they cherry pick who they want their parents to be ,,

Arlene Philips is great , she raised a lot of money for Grenfell last year ,,

maybe because people knew the effect the 1st one had ,,

there were many reasons why i quit the entertainment game ,&  never danced again , thanks ,

1 hour ago, lojo said:

It's an interesting question , I've no idea who was the first live or recorded UK funk player . I've got the latest Album by the revived "Atmosfear" and they started recording in the late 70s didn't they ?

Hi Tension was the 1st brit funk gig ,,, Dancing ,, dancing in outer space by atmosphere became a DJ classic 1st pressings of atmosphere i think were on white label ?  ,

thus brit funk only had a handful of bands (about 4 bands ? ) with associated musicians within their circles ,, before the disco sucks demonstration march , circa 1980 ,, thanks ,

3 minutes ago, lojo said:

Fair enough , I hope whatever you ended up doing served you well 

What about just playing in bands for fun , I think the majority of the people on this site are weekend functions players , self funding hobby types , are you involved in that at all ? 

 

yeah i used to do that in the 1990s ,,

The London Bass Guitar show s a decent event ,, & you tube is a great outlet thanks

9 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I sometimes wonder what would have happened with Disco, Soul and Funk had the 'Disco Sucks' movement not occurred.

I think it had the effect of driving what was emerging from underground into popular culture right back down there again.  Far from killing the genre it made it stronger.  The underground (as perceived by mainstream culture of the time) was where these beats began.  It's where they thrived.  One megalomaniac DJ was never going to make much of a dent in it.

Britfunk might have been on a slightly better footing because our music was being monopolised less by the broadcasters than ever before.  Soul, Rhythm and Blues, Jazz/funk were all getting mainstream exposure and there was a bit of a revival that just carried on.

Being able to record what you wanted to listen to made a huge difference to the youth now that they had the compact cassette.  I see home recording more as a catalyst than a threat to the music industry.

Stuff that is over commercialised always gets diluted 'till it's got that same packaging and bland delivery as everything else.

Brit funk seems unaffected by Steve Dahl's hate campaign but I'd like to hear your take on that.

Not being resident in the UK at the time, I missed out on a lot of the music that was played in the underground clubs.  For instance, Northern Soul.  Only now am I educating myself.

You asked; "how would you know they were thumbing & plucking slapping the bass in 1975  if you had never seen the method done"?

I remember where I first saw how that sound could be made.  You will not like me for saying.  It was when MK did an extended solo on Channel Four's The Tube in the early eighties.  I was not a bass player then, I was a poser who'd been told by musical mates to hold this (a bass), put your left hand there and hold that string down and pluck.  I became the bassist for Holiday Mood.    Only when I saw MK did I think... AHA!

It lasted for about two years then I dropped out to concentrate on my apprenticeship.  I only picked it up again in my fifties.

so true disco sucks ,,,   ? Dasco ? ,, the entire planet had gone disco gaga , even the news was going disco ,, & thus disco ended underground in 1980? ,,

it continued via studio 21 as two step  ,,, & more fusion tracks & slower  jazz funk  in wine bars ,, it was now nightclub music ,, , there was a retro movement as soon as it ended ,,

so yeah ,, most people outside of USA did not notice / visualize  bass players slapping until brit funk ,, & most people including yourself saw MK ,,  in the battle for Brit funk he came out on top ,,,,

& yes  ,,   paul tubsy williams was a co founder of Incognito etc ,,

without disco we would not be here ,, thanks

8 hours ago, lojo said:

Disco , funk and the like have been a big passion of mine since I was a teenager in the mid 80s so I can only know the history of the early days in the 70s from reading and documentaries as I was not there .

After watching the clip in the OP I am now not sure what it's really about , most of the stuff he says fits with what I already believe I know , but I am now to believe I should consider this guy part of the history I love so much ?

He also mentioned the reason you don't hear him on Galliano & Incognito recording s is because he turned his back on the music industry , but unless I missed it he did not say why ? 

 

 

i ran away from show biz not long after the world disco champs 78 ,,, & then again  1982 /83 in the music industry ,, why ? a lot of reasons ,, put in simple terms ,,

many people who go into show biz / music ,, really want to do it , i did not like the environment being a free ordinary club dancer , show biz / music is ruthless , it can have a great effect on those it disappoints the most ,, 

to progress in both you learn to tread on other people , i refused to do that , 1981 was a tough year ,,, i decided to get out of the entire rabbit hole ,

i was the complete opposite of a person who wanted to become famous & would do anything to make it happen ,,

means reverted back to a bed room bassist throughout most of the 80s 

thanks

18 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I was in an Irish secondary school at that time ('75 to '80).  Our view of the disco dance phenomenon was propelled by the release of Saturday Night Fever.

For a laugh, I took disco dancing lessons after school.  The instructor was travelling around the country setting up courses for eager kids to dance like Travolta in that film.  I enjoyed the experience.  Since the school had subsidised the course, we had to put on a show with what we'd learned.

That was the first time that I had performed for an audience.  Thank you for provoking that memory in me.

Those were indeed Good Times.

used ,to go on the dance floor with the martha graham troupe at that level  & take over a disco ,,  was sometimes mistaken for one of the dancers ,, others knew we knew marthas dancers anyways ,,,

15 hours ago, Paul S said:

All good stuff.  The first I remember being aware of slap/pop bass was on this Al Jarreau tune 'You Don't See Me' 1975 - starts about 1 min into it.  Not as percussive as most.

 

i hear a lot of stories ,,,,  man , people sometimes side step brit funk ,,, they tend to push a theory of continuum ,, yes bob james , yes ramsey lewis the whole decade of the 1970s is funky , soulful ,,, & ? disco ,  then a new deeper underground  disco that set in stone fusion jazz soul funk , for a few short years the world went disco crazy ,, & it was only until then did anyone take notice of the bass player ,, in lue of any slapping ,, 

eg how would you know they were thumbing & plucking slapping the bass in 1975  if you had never seen the method done ,,

14 hours ago, lowdown said:

^^^^

Yes !! I  have that album (I forgot about it to be honest). Great album, lovely arrangements by Dave Grusin as well. That’s Paul Stallworth on Bass, quite a session player at the time.

I am pretty sure there is a track from a ‘5th Dimension’ album in ‘75 with him that has some thumb and popped Bass. I think he also played on that awful Keith Moon solo album from the same period.

 

There is an interesting article with Marcus Miller (somewhere on the net). He thinks slapping goes way back, before Larry Graham.

Musicians from Gnawa were slapping their Gimbris for centuries (sounds painful, I know). 

 

 

Sorry ‘Bean9seventy’, I have gone off track a bit.

i get the chance to do my 1st bass chat joke ,, yes lowdown ,, but we are not talking about Mr Larry Graham ,,, look a post i read in bassit via reddit exaggerated what i put forward on you tube ,,  i was not the 1st UK slap bassit but in the 1st wave / circle of players

who went to the music shop(s) MK worked in where he  saw herd  ,, the underground bass lines we were into before he was a bassist / or worked in the bass section of his shop  ,, as we remember the shop Before" he worked there ,, he was a new member of staff ,

23 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I'm glad you mentioned this one Bean9Seventy. I started bass playing well before I got into clubbing - my first experience of this was in the mid 70s and I was mesmerised by the bass lines on lots if not all of the stuff the DJs played - and that T Connection track was played regularly and filled the dance floor. It struck me as a similar type of line that Stanley Clark was playing on his first solo album. 

There quite a lot of other tracks making a regular appearance - some of them quite obscure - I guess this was the 'dance culture' of the time. I think Boogie Nights started as a track played in clubs - I certainly remember it being played (12" version?)

Interesting to hear your views on bass and disco music, particularly as it was the disco dancing which got you into bass. 

I was already a bass player but was further inspired by the music in clubs in that era. This is one of the first pop and slap parts I ever heard - 1976 - I definitely hear some MK grooves in there after the first guitar breakdown - Love Games for instance

 

people i knew were getting it from Bootsy Direct  ,, there was a soul thing going on average white band ,, to billy ocean , ??  brit funk was a specific time during the 70s , it was deeper underground in a matter of weeks which created a hot point as fans became the bands for the fans ,,

think this brit funk tune sums up the era

the southern freeze was a dance move ,, seen checked out by the soul movement about 

yes we know 100s of pub bands plus could play stevie wonder superstition in the mid 70s  ,, 

but just like studio 54 brit funk and its birth out of disco ,, was starting from a blank page ,, it was not a continuation of the mid seventies music style & feeling it was totaly  new

like the new 12 inch records ? t connection was in the 1st batch of 12 inch records , Disco , available to buy in the UK in 1977 99p

no one knew anything about slap bass in the uk , until people saw bootsy & the brothers johnston gig ?? man  Thunderthumbs & Bootsy ,?? WOW , the transatlantic message ,,  the 1st bass mashup outside of the USA  people i knew were never doing nothing other than rating the gig ,, it was epic historical dope ,, like jimi hendrix walking on to the rolling stones jam ,

being as vinyl only disco man i was not live music back then so i never went to the gig ,, 

when i saw the funk guys doing disco  bass with fulll slap i became a player overnight

video from 1978 ,, of the worlds 1st ever  WORLD disco final ,, this was shown live all over the world ,,, millions saw it ,, apart from john travolta & michael jackson ; D ,

there are bands to grab , billy ocean , the cool notes ,, the real thing , heatwave ,, the average white bank,  de funked ,,, & the Reggie bands ,, they too didnt see this clip ,, ;D

Brit funk was born out of the underground disco movement they were , raw definition ,bands for the disco fans , that were once themselves fans , just like the beatles were ,, just like punk was ,,

people today do often side step the raw story of Brit funk by refering to earlier works like rare random fusion tracks & players    ,, Brit funk was kind of born overnight it has a day a date they know the exact songs played & rated ,, who what where when ,,

until i met the people who went backstage with Bootsy in 78 i never knew what a bass was ; D

7 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I wouldn't know about MK or anyone else for that matter.  Our influences were mainly Joy Division/New Order, early REM, The Smiths, that sort of thing.

My interest in jazz/funk fusion occurred before MK with this LP:

 

I was living in Ireland at the time and we were surrounded by a lot of C&W with a strong American flavour as well as rebel songs and traditional music.  All of my mates hated it.  I never really got exposed to American music other than pop on the radio and let's face it, that wasn't exactly inspirational.

Visitor 2035 was when I first heard the funk in any form.  I learnt of Bootsy and others by name much much later

was checking out The Vistior quote & LP ,,, man the 70s had a lot of funky music after all it was the 70s ,,

anyway ,, it was only after The London Bass Guitar Show 2011? that MK done an after party interview where he talks about working in a music shop ,,  then i remembered it ,, was him

if MK would have  said nothing in that interbiew i would never have known (maybe forever) ,,, think it was a nice gesture that he did remind people ,,

such humble beginnings ? crazy disco dancers who mow wanted to be like robert popswell   i used to call him robert popswelll Robinson as i thought "pops well" was his nick  name ,, THANKS

i forgot to agree ,,, Stanley Clarke is an acceptance to the rule as he was being discovered from music magazines ,, they would be sold & read in musical shops ,, he became really noticed via The Modern Man LP ?? ,, & people than back cataloged & discovered school days etc  ,, it was the same for Herbie Hancock after the Sunlight LP people discovered his earlier work ,,

nevertheless people in the UK were already slapping in lue of the launch of Stanley ,,, in 1980 ? Stanley came to the UK & done a TV bass lesson show ? ,, eg i already had a bass on point whilst i was watching the show ,,

i agree Stanley is very important to the 2nd round of Brit Funk players ,, paul tubbsy william MK & myself at that ,, time, all had basses eg not" fender basses" that were more in line to a bass Stanley would have used

On 3/27/2018 at 01:40, drTStingray said:

Although not the first mainstream single to do so, Car Wash by Rose Royce, with its slapped breakdowns and pop and slap octaving along with Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is possibly introduced that style to many mid 70s bass players - I went to an audition (in the UK) for a soul/funk band in the latter 70s and one of the other guys there played a lot of slap bass - and quite intimidating it was!! A lot of UK bass players were influenced by it - I'm pretty sure I heard Alan Spenner using the style in the later 70s also, and Neil Murray in National Health even. Larry Graham in Graham Central Station days also popularised it around that time in a more up front way than in Sly and the Family Stone - it appeared in some of Earth Wind and Fire singles (eg Saturday Night).

I saw the Crusaders several times in the 70s but on one occasion and notably they had a bass player called Robert 'Pops' Popwell playing with them and he was a phenomenal slap player - in fact was featured in a solo much as you would see Louis Johnson. That Crusaders track is interesting and does sound a little like Mr Pink by Level 42. 

I would have though Mark King heard all the music going on around him (including what people in the music shop he worked in played) and like any other developing player would have likely been influenced by it. 

The Level 42 stuff was really an 80s phenomena and Mark clearly took the style to a new level - the 80s sound (used by lots of other Brit funk bands of that period) was different as well being more scooped and hi fi sounding - more reminiscent of Stanley Clarke. 

 

i mixed up the two posts ,, it wont matter

it was the demand of people who went to the disco that artists from the USA were asked to do gigs for

although there was a standard soul circuit eg Diana Ross etc Ray Charles ,,,,,

Chris Hill was undoubtedly the top name in what was then still an Underground Movement ? ,,, these are the areas were it all started  ,, Hi Tension was the very 1st Brit gig ,,we were all there & Chris Hill or similar ran it

 even if MK could hear music as you thought ,, it all would been via an underground source ? including other bass players ? ,, leading back to ? eg Chris Hill & the uk disco movement   it still would have traveled to their ears via us , the dance crowd in those times ultimately rated music & gave birth to Brit Funk ,,,

people telll me its that same Brit Funk crowd that went to level 42s very 1st gigs in the early 80s

by the early 80s i quit & turned my back ) the music industry stopped dancing too i refuse to take show biz seriously ;D that's why i don't play bass as well as some of my peers & predecessors or as well as i should with all that history ,, thanks ,

On 3/26/2018 at 14:53, SpondonBassed said:

I used to do the music shop shuffle myself.

Often, lots of other youths would be slapping away.  This was all done on unplugged basses so it was pointless trying out one if you didn't do slap yourself simply because you couldn't hear it above the clickety click that was present all around!  You couldn't beat 'em so you had to join 'em.

The truth be known, I was known more for influencing people away from the bass altogether I'm afraid. 

I have one of Level 42's early albums (the second I think) on four track cassette.  I think MK was a carpet fitter before that.

I loved it.  L42 had just got The Chinese Way onto TOTP but I preferred the earlier material.  I still do.

a lof of people wore 501 Levis After they saw the advert ,,,  some people got an ear ring After they saw the sex pistols ,, yes i remember . i was a dancer , see , Brit funk was grass roots upwards ,,  Chris Hill ,, ?

tune 1 for learners probably was Wild Cherry

tune 2  T Connection do what you wanna do ,, This tune is very important to UK Disco in many ways  perhaps  the 1st bass line that bass players ever Popped ( before folks knew about thumb slapping )

the clickety click comment proves they were not the original bass players ,, as they dont play that way, james brown bootsy etc, they dont play that way, the  clickety click thing was a cheap button method to quantize  ? i use it sometimes # a repeating pattern that became " euro sent trick ,,,, it has very little R & B value ? you know soul like The Average White Band "   its devoid of the funk  ,, "The Brothers of Funk" Q my dear ,

what """" Bootsy """ did was what jimi hendrix did in the 1960s when he came to london  ,, no one had ever seen anything like that before ,, i am sure The Brothers Johnson were the warm up band

ps  if you are sure MK was slapping before the above let us know ;D