xilddx

Good thread this

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='951799' date='Sep 10 2010, 01:35 PM']Ugh. To me, this looks like a double-neck with a 6-string and a 6-string. The bridges are clearly different, and the fboards are made from different woods, but other than that, I can't see what distinguishes the two halves. They both appear to be fretted. Anyone know? S.P.[/quote] One has Classic P Bass Thump, the other has Classic Jazz Bass Growl.

For sheer, unbridled ugliness, can you beat the Parker Fly Bass?

[quote name='Rich' post='951684' date='Sep 10 2010, 11:46 AM']My pass-the-bucket list of shame: - That stupid Warwick Reverso abomination. - Alembic Dragon's Wing. - Big AL - Bongo - Everything made by [url="http://www.loewenherzbass.com/english/models.html"]these people[/url] and [url="http://www.dipintoguitars.com/category.php?id=2"]these people[/url]. - Much of BC Rich's output. - Sparkly Italias etc. Rich (refusing to 'justify' my 'coffee table' bass to anyone) [/quote] I wish you had not posted this link [url="http://www.loewenherzbass.com/english/models.html"]http://www.loewenherzbass.com/english/models.html[/url] I'm just about to have lunch! They are truly disgusting aren't they.

[quote name='urb' post='951597' date='Sep 10 2010, 10:37 AM']Pretty much every bass that I don't own... But especially these: [/quote] Ah, the awful Warwick Vampyre. The Entwistle Buzzard is even worse, that and the Reverso have the UGLIEST headstocks ever designed, they are truly disgusting to behold. Most Trabens look a bit daft too, with thos tribal tattoo style bridges.

Anything with more than four strings, big ugly single cuts, any Burns bass. And someone mentioned the Warwick Nobby Headless - it is indeed one of the most ridiculous looking things in the world. EDIT: I forgot Pedulla, a horrible, horrible cartoon of a bass design.

[quote name='beardybass' post='951400' date='Sep 10 2010, 05:50 AM']Or... open and lively debates, the whole point of having a forum in the first place. [/quote] Quite. That's why I keep coming back.

[quote name='51m0n' post='950674' date='Sep 9 2010, 02:45 PM']It is important that the audience are entertained - providing that is a goal of the artists I guess. I've seen several artists for whom audience enjoyment and entertainment was not a requirement, improvisation had no bearing on the situation mind. Didnt necessarily make them a bad artist, in some cases it allowed tem to produce iconic works of massive importance to a very few people. Do the audience need to appreciate the fact that some part of what they are experiencing is improvised - no. Will the band necessarily play as well if the are not allowed to deviate from the composition at all - depends on the musicians. Does not allowing the band any room for deviation make moments of absolute genius less likely to happen - IMO yes. Does not allowing the band any room for deviation make moments of absolute disaster more likely to happen - IMO yes. Is improv a bad thing live - IMO no! In your opinion YES! I rather like the 'spice' of watching music performed in the moment, I feel that cannot be as true when every note, every nuance, every aspect is predetermined. If any aspect of the performance is not predetermined then that is improvised. However small that is it coul dgo wrong, it could end in disaster OH NO, how can we have unsafe potentially disastrous music performances, think of the children, surely we need to get HEalth and Safety ion on this at once!!!! Question for you Nige, you often say how you like to get down and boogie whilst playing, are those dance moves all predetermined, are they choreographed? If not then maybe you should look at tieing that aspect of your performance down next? [b]Cant say I'd ever need to see your band more than once though, and I cant see why anyone else would really either....[/b][/quote] Thanks mate! All live performances are multi-dimensional, even if the notes are the same each time. There are loads of great bands who don't improvise live, Rush are one. There are minor differences each night but other than that it's the same show. Yet fans see them time after time on the same tour. It's about whether you like the band and their music and the "show". Same with classical concerts.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='950668' date='Sep 9 2010, 02:40 PM']It is important that the audience has a relationship with what is going on but what defines that relationship is a matter for them. If an artist plays to the gallery by assuming that they know what the gallery is seeking because it is what has been sought before, you get Simon Cowell. The music we all play, whether we like it or not, is subject to market forces. Its audience is self defining and the presence or absence of improvisation in bass parts is a miniscule part of that. Some people like background music to eat to, others want to dance. They will have different expectations and will react according to those expectations and not to the content of the performance.[/quote] Wonderfully put, thank you.

[quote name='51m0n' post='950637' date='Sep 9 2010, 02:13 PM']How can you say or even suggest that the audience will appreciate the songs less if there is an element of improvisation in there. Especially if you haven't tried it....[/quote] I didn't say that. I was just asking if it was important to the band if the audience enjoys watching their "process". I have tried it, it is fun.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='950617' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:58 PM']There is a difference between improvisation that is 'making it up as you go along' and improvisation that is the intelligent, responsive and dynamic interaction of equals in a musical setting. The concept of a piece of music as an artefact, a 'thing' that is perfect and its reproduction a ceremony is only one model of music making. Some musics; jazz is only one, are as much a [i]process[/i] as they are an outcome. [b]The art is in the doing of the thing and not in the thing that is done.[/b][/quote] Is it important that the audience appreciates that art?

[quote name='skej21' post='950574' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:24 PM']I do read, but when you get sat infront of a piece of music that is written in treble clef, above the maximum range of the standard bass guitar because the "composer" thought that is how bass is notated past the 12th fret, you have to act pretty fast. In this case, it was an emergency session which i was called to do the day before the gig (i imagine the other guy dropped out when he saw the bass part!) but luckily the MD just told me to follow the style directions and play along to the chords written above. Needless to say, the ability to improvise stylistically came in VERY useful on that gig, and a few others like it. All I'm saying is, it's not as black and white as IT'S COMPLETELY POINTLESS, or IT'S BLOODY BRILLIANT. I imagine you already know this though, and are just winding people up for the fun of it [/quote] Understood. But what you are doing there is the opposite of improvising, in a sense. You do not know the part, but you have a fair idea of it. And you are trying to get as close to it as possible based on what you know of it. Not really improvising, just playing along to the chords hoping you don't f*** it up. And I am not winding people up for the fun of it. I have a serious point to make, although I phrased it to provoke some conversation, rather than [i]"Improvisation on a bass, is it a good fing or a bad fing? I don't want to upset anyone"[/i]. And get three replies. I am genuinely interested in what people think, sorry if you feel manipulated.

[quote name='skej21' post='950553' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:10 PM']That's all well and good if you're a band who rehearse every week or whatever. If you're a sessionist and you only have 2 rehearsals before the show, it's a bloody nightmare and you need to be able to sort it quickly.[/quote] Really? What sort of music? Is it complicated? Are you a sessionista who doesn't sight read?

[quote name='skej21' post='950541' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:04 PM']What happens if you write a drum part that's really unnatural for a musician, for example, a drummer? I've played bass parts written by other musicians before, and although harmonically/melodically they may have written specific parts to affect the music, their sense of positioning on the instrument often makes parts very difficult to play, because they lack a practical knowledge of that instrument. I think then, you (as the experienced musician for that part) are entitled to "improvise" and change the notes to make it playable and keep the composer's implied harmonic and meldoic ideas. Also, I know a lot of drummer's who complain about drum notation that is written by other musicians who don't understand the drum kit and tend to just change it to keep the feel but make it less unnatural.[/quote] You work out what's natural in REHEARSAL, not live on stage.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='950529' date='Sep 9 2010, 12:52 PM']I play in an originals band, on stage I don't improvise. The notes I play are chosen specifically because they work, they are appropriate for the song and the musical context of the part of the song that they are a component of. They are the [i]right[/i] notes. I write my band's music - when I compose a bass part, I know exactly what I'm doing, what I'm aiming to create and why. To spontaneously change basslines live would be pointless and would likely clash with what the other musicians are doing. Obviously compositions can evolve through rehearsal & performance, & if for example it occurs to me that playing something differently might enhance a song, I'll develop the idea on my own & then try it at practice to see if it actually works in context. As a composer I feel it's faintly insulting to suggest that performing a song as it was written is somehow musically stunted and illiterate. Jon.[/quote] Jon, that's exactly what I've been trying to say all along. For instance, Steve K raised a good point about how many classic performances in the '70s were all about improvising live and made for some magical performances. But you only get to hear the good stuff. What about all the sh*t that was played we never hear, and the audiences not getting value for their money.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='950323' date='Sep 9 2010, 10:03 AM']I couldn't disagree more.[/quote] Thanks Ched.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='950231' date='Sep 9 2010, 08:48 AM']For me, playing devils advocate is for pompous tits who convince themselves its entertaining![/quote] Ooh I say!

[quote name='endorka' post='949956' date='Sep 8 2010, 09:46 PM']What Ironside said - absolutely brilliant. Jennifer[/quote] I concur!

[quote name='deathpanda' post='949824' date='Sep 8 2010, 08:18 PM'][size=7]IMO[/size] bass improv is wicked. I care. [b]learning and playing a song note for note live is like having nothing to say[/b], well you might have [i]had[/i] something to say, but please let's just move on, it's tiring... I have all the time in the world for a bassist improvising with a decent drummer who locks in, it's magic. quick edit* and of course, it's all about a structured improv. if the bassist is twiddling and soloing for the sake of it, then I'm probably not even at the gig in the first place.[/quote] I simply can not agree with that. You can play the same notes time and again and put across entirely different levels of passion and commitment, mood and involvement. You are saying repetition of notes has ever decreasing power in a live situation. It's just not true. You can have an immense amount of fun and passion with the same notes every time.

[quote name='skej21' post='949827' date='Sep 8 2010, 08:22 PM']My old tutor used to say a similar thing... [b]"It's like an artist who can only draw Mickey Mouse"[/b] The point being, it's a useful skill and being able to copy the existing successful part is often bread and butter, but you have to express music with your own personality in there somewhere, or you could have just used a backing track.[/quote] Oh come on! That's absolute tripe. You can play those very same notes with great expression without have to add your mickey mouse fills and embellishments and still put across your passion and lift the song. It's also about the composition and playing the very important support role most of us have to, and love to, fulfil.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='949516' date='Sep 8 2010, 03:30 PM']Never! I love these threads of yours! [b]Controversial statement ---> Vociferous discussion ---> Reconciliation ---> General love-in[/b] Time for stage 4, methinks. I love you guys.[/quote] KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS KISS

[quote name='51m0n' post='949508' date='Sep 8 2010, 03:20 PM']HAHAHA!! Love it mate [/quote] I must stop self harming on the internetz

[quote name='51m0n' post='949494' date='Sep 8 2010, 03:00 PM']Nigel, mate, thats a load of old bunk.[/quote] +1 it's complete bollocks!

[quote name='bubinga5' post='949398' date='Sep 8 2010, 01:25 PM']Sorry wrong spelling..i meant 'Improv'[/quote] Sorry mate, yes that was pointed out to me you may have meant that. Cheers.

Again, depends, but usually a ring finger barre, Sometimes I use just the index. Play on the root with thhe index, slide up and barre 5th and octave with the index, it's quite expressive so it depends on the song.