cytania

Do have a look around, I've never understood why the Classic Vibes seem so well received. Ones I've seen in several shops appear chunky, clunky and plasticy but they've gone down so well I figured it was just me. On the other hand I've picked up custom shop jazzes and found them heavy and sharp-edged. There are some very likeable P/J types out there but they don't reveal themselves in online photos. If you're really picky about instruments you have to handle them first.

My advice would be to get something with a different sound altogether. You'll find yourself discovering new things and playing differently. By sticking exclusively with jazz types you are staying in a comfort zone. Now there are some very different sounding jazzes out there, so if it's the shape or look you like then seek out a pickup/circuit that offers something more or something other. Also 5 strings, be sure why you are getting into this. They make key changes of big sophisticated lines easier, as far as I understand it but I'm find my basic plugging away can be fitted in most places on 4 strings.

Yojan, if you can get to a shop do so. At least to get a feel for the types of neck on the basses you're considering. Drums will put you in good stead for playing bass. As a pianist you may be drawn to Ibanez, most their basses have a very bright piano like sound, however in some ways a beginner wants a more thuddy bass to start with. Advice you are getting here about sell-on value depends on whether you will be spending much time in the bass seat. If the instrument is a keeper then ignore the advice about Fender/Squier. Likewise P/J copies/s-h are such a mixed experience I personally wouldn't consider buying them blind off the net. Used Stingrays and Warwicks might be out your price range but keep eyes open as their prices are quite depressed at present. Fender sellers hold out for top dollar...

Thanks oldG, I tried doing the first E as a zingy double and it really works. Another way to build up the T-Rex feel. So sometimes I play a big lumpy E when the tension is building and sometimes a skippy double E for verses. Neat.

Yeah a shuffle feel is good, what I like about my line is you rock your hand as you play it, something I look for in basslines, often find classic ones have a natural lilting hand motion. Not guarranteed buta good rule of thumb. Feel I try to give it is a swinging funky feel, when I'm having one of those days when practise is a slog I have to work to prevent it sounding like lead boots. As regards the solo, I imagine the studio conversation with Tony Visconti went like this; "But the guitarists have already left while we were doing overdubs, how about we just drop in the bass doing a run?" or maybe "No Marc you picked up the bass! Oh well sounds sort of good that way, let's keep that take, pubs are opening..." To me it's not a BASS SOLO it's just a solo on bass guitar, like the way some of Duane Eddy's guitar lines are actually played on basses on record, doesn't make him a bass player...

I'm just a part-timer looking to do pub gig type stuff however chap here at work may have a PA for sale at a good price. Probably one of the middling cheapo ones without sub but he needs to dig out the details/dig it out of storage. Went to a gig at a pub I'd like to play and found the band using a very large PA, now it may just be they went for what they could hire easily but it is a larger than average pub (more church hall sized). What I don't want to do is pickup an underpowered or vocally poor PA. Was hoping for some rules of thumb...

What I've learnt so far... PA a single term for a wide range of systems. Many cheap PA rigs have their eyes centered on nothing more challenging than a bit of corporate announcing and bingo calling. These might be OK for corner of pub gigs but don't try to put the bass or guitars through them. Vocals yes, keyboards maybe, possibly the kick drum... This kind of setup usually has no sub-woofer. There are also PA rigs with a powered mixer console that take the mikes and power big speakers. These may be a bit old skool now... A big PA system that rates in the thousand watts should see you through a hall gig. There are usually subs making up the base of each speaker stand and tiny foldback speakers on the poles. This kind of rig costs big money but will take bass and guitar inputs. You may then have the kind of mixing console that does effects processing on DI sound. Expensive and hard to transport, often hired out with van... Any wise words for a confused skinflint?

So 'I Ain't Gonna Funk No More (With No Big Fat Woman)' is probably off the list then ;-) Top of my head; Ride On Time - Black Box Papa's Gotta Brand New Pig Bag/Reach Up Standing In The Way Of Control - Gossip Naked In The Rain - Blue Pearl Mr. Big Stuff - Jean Knight Kiss - Prince/Tom Jones Song songs gender change easier than others, so 'Play That Funky Music (White Boy)' would convert easy. Problem for most bands that do covers is avoiding over-done, overblown million sellers but also not indulging in obscure novelties. There should also be some differential between your act and hiring a DJ to play the same songs...

"I wouldn't quite agree with this, the Epiphone Jack casady and my Ibanez ASB are quite articulate" Thanks for that Steve, I'll look out for those two. I almost bought a Yamaha BEX04 as my first bass, I'm such a fool for f-holes. I'm glad I went for the Ibanez SRX400 as a beginner's instrument though. Ray if you can find them s/h the Ibanez SRX400 is pretty retro (that's one in my avatar). The UK got alot of Martini Olive Green, I picked mine up discounted, probably due to this colour. In most lights it looks like someone has entered an avocado eating contest, won and then vomitted in a bucket of glitter. They look much better in silver or candyapple red. Still I could have had pewter grey. Also check out the Ibanez Jet-King from last year's range. I found the plastic guards oddly situated but it has a very strong 60s vibe. Nothing retro about Ibanez's sound though, rather modern and treble rich whatever the styling...

A month before Christmas I saw one in a local band who do alot of Stranglers/Clash cover versions. Me and my bass-playing friend weren't too sure when we saw the red Jaguar bass come out. Well, it looked like the kind of bass a guitarist might pick when 'lumbered' with 'bass duties'... Happy to report though that the Jaguar bass ripped into those Burnel basslines like a good'un. It had all the classic Fender honk, burp and 'dumpf' (what a strange world planet bass is when honking and burping are good qualities to have). I was impressed, still don't understand the top controls though...

I'm preparing to be shot down here but... Acoustic basses don't make alot of noise, that's why they only really came about once they could be plugged in. I'm sure played solo they'll be lovely up close but combined with other instruments you'll be losing all that nice acoustic subtlety trying to be heard on louder passages. Would a double bass be more the thing? They at least have a history of holding their own in combos...

Wow, serious retro eye candy basses. The Charvel's are skirting so near Rickenbacker territory and the Dean is an evocation of cabbie semis by Gretsch, I think. On a practical note the Charvel's remind me of an Italia I tried with a similar 'scimitar' soundhole. I quickly found a silly problem. The hole is pefectly situated to catch your thumb when playing fingerstyle. I'm sure with time one could learn to ride the scratchplate ridge but... In general hollow body basses have a woolly, plummy sound due to the cavity resonance, I haven't heard of any exceptions to this. You get less note definition and more boomy, fuzzy, lumpy, sixties tone. Their nature also tends to bring out string buzz more, again you'll adjust playing style to compensate but it doesn't encourage fast runs. You can get the sixties tone from most modern instruments simply by turning pickup volume down low and edging the tone into jazzy/muddy or indeed by stringing with flatwounds or sticking foam pieces under the bridge (using my Ibanez for early Beatles covers vol 1 tone 3). However these instruments will give you an idea of what sixties bass players had to contend with. No wonder Fender became the industry gold standard...

My last reply there sounds a bit like I'm a timing expert, not what I intended, in fact I've been bedeviled with timing trouble but it's not something you can just amend like tuning. When we had a real strong drummer I started to sit back (bad). Our previous 'varispeed' drummer did me a favour by forcing me to work with them on timing, frustrating as that was. If they don't play what suits your line then you have to adapt. Concentrate on hitting the kick drum and you can often redefine the bassline. Another hard aspect is ignoring the guitars, when I'm really getting in the zone the guitars become an annoying buzz. Likewise the snares/hihat, although these can be a guide you are 'there' if the drummer is pitching them right. Try to discipline yourself to only tap along to the bass drum when listening to music, at home, in the car, at gigs etc. Try to get a metronome that gives a clear bass/snare rhythmn and lock onto the downbeat. Might be easy if you're part of the acid house generation but as a 60s music fan I've had to educate myself to hearing 'the one'.

You may want to sneak the words 'Les Paul style' into the title and body of your sale. Your Ibanez should appeal to anyone who wants the LP tone without the Gibson premium. It does give a sound in that kind of ballpark? Mention it's high gain blues tone etc. in your description, if you haven't already.

Recent wheeze I've hit on to improve my timing is to imagine the drummer's kick pedal has broken, I now have to provide the bass drum beat for the band. It's just a mental thing but it sort of works. Part of my timing difficulties have been an ingrained sense of invading the drummer's space and not feeling right playing aggressively into the beat. Some kind of forward thrust is necessary for bass in a way that it isn't for guitar. This shouldn't mean exaggerating the notes until the bassline is a dominating monster it's about adding snap and zing to the bassline. Energising it into the right timing. Check my timing thread on Theory and Technique for more...

A white undercoat on a black guitar sounds crazy, but this is a routine practise in paint shops. You actually need some white beneath to make the black coat seem properly black. What I can't say is if Fender did this in 1975 for the bass you describe...

Oh, forgot Peavey, Washburn and if you're into spikey 'rawk' shapes BC Rich and Dean. Nothing against Fender per se, the Precision and Jazz are _the_ classic basses. However I would recommend Eight try out everything rather than just trust in the Fender name on the headstock. Fender do a huge range of the same basic models and often the differences are immense. Some Squiers have great necks, some MIA Fenders have duff necks. Buying online opens you up to buying the wrong Fender. Checking them out in a shop ensures you notice which have 'vintage' necks or pickups and see if you could live with them. Jazz and Precision are pretty broad envelopes; weight, contouring, pickups, circuits can vary alot. Eight, check real instruments in real shops you may find a second hand bargain or a budget line like Squier that has just been finished with a bit more care than usual. It's the sort of 'right for me' choice you can't make from reviews or canvassing opinions online, certainly don't trust eBay where sellers have never heard of twisted necks, wonky bolt-ons or crackly pots. In a shop you'll naturally spot any faults as you try out basses. Be prepared to disappoint salesmen, then go off, have lunch, forget basses for a few hours. Later the best instruments should stand out in your mind.

Eight, you're on the right track there's alot of good stuff around for £300 and yes you really do need to get your hands a bass in a shop to judge if it's for you. You'll get more bangs per buck avoiding Fender and Gibson. I've not tried that particular EB3 bass but the SG body can feel odd, lots of neck pointy horns, so do try one. Other names to consider Spear (love my S2), Ibanez (SRX series has a trebly rock voice), Rockbass/Warwick and Cort. May be worth an away day to a nearby metropolis that has big music stores...

You're absolutely right Jennifer. Note awareness is about knowing where the notes you need are. So a beginner really needs to think about the first five frets and open strings where you've got all the common keys on tap. There are traps waiting for beginners like simply playing everything on the E string by flying up and down the neck like a mad thing, I see alot of thrash punk players doing this. The other zone worth learning is the 5th and 7th frets from the E down, it's a pentatonic thing and the basis for alot of rock lines. Worst thing about courses that shout 'scales scales scales' is they encourage the idea of flying down the neck for a set of notes then back up to the main group. Generally the note choices with the least movement are the best. Indeed a right bassline usually has a rocking back and forth hand motion. Looking for these factors in a line often leads to the right sound. For me it's the figuring out of lines and trying out alternate patterns that has built up note awareness, not any diagram. Give me those blanks and I'd probably start by filling in the Es, Gs, As, then the Ds, Bs a Cs and then finally the sharp notes. A beginner needs to learn the notes as they naturally cluster in the chord progressions of real songs, so they can get going with a band. The happy end result should be when you feel your fingers leading you to a right note rather than thinking it out :-)

Thanks to my bass tutor for this. It's a simple funky line that that will give that 'dit-dat-dee-dat' 'Get It On' groove. ------------------- --2----------------- ---------4----2--4- --------------------- You'll see other tabs on the net, give these to your guitarists for licks and fills. Also the song has a bass solo, ignore it and let your guitar do the break. Concentrate on getting a solid groove. That line fits in with a straight kick snare 4:4 beat any drummer can provide. On the verse lines you add ---------------------- ----------4--2--4--2- --0------------------- ---------------------- After the first groove, it's really effective. On the chorus you simple root G and A, play my first groove twice and then root G and A again. On the record there are multiple layers. Bass and guitar parts blend into a grooving whole (the guitars are wonderfully rhythmic). I've seen several bands attempt this song and either root all the way through (zero funkiness) or attempt all the departures and solos (groove kill). IMHO bass needs to rule the beat on this one to prevent what the guitars do sounding twiddly twang. But enough technical talk ;-)

"Yes I heard one of the programmes the other night, someone was saying how they tried to disguise the fact Motown was a black record label." The docos try to establish Motown's place in it's own era but really a whole programme is needed on race and American music. A real eye opener if you can find it is '1001 Album Covers' which actually covers the late 50s extensively and often shows how a disc started with a black group on the cover then 'crossed over' with a text only or generic teen image cover. It really spells out how scared white America was of 'race music'. Motown's sound and presentation wasn't too different from doowop but if you contrast them with wild men like Bod Diddley, Screamin Jay Hawkins, Little Richard or Chuck Berry, well you can see how they moulded and manicured their acts. Actually DooWop music was often very comic and caricatured, wailing falsettos and deep bass voices. Motown records were generally fairly serious (yet not as hysterically dramatic as a Shadow Morton, Phil Spector or Lieber and Stoller productions) and tended to have rounded to-the-point vocals without the hokiness or rawness of earlier 'chitlin circuit' acts.

"So it's a kind of safety device with no musical effect other than to prevent distortion and damage?" When guitarists use compression it's for effect. Treble strings tend to chime weaker, compression makes all their strings strike with equal weight. Compression also makes most instruments jump forward in the mix, it gives them an artificial 'immediacy'. At a deep level all the pedals guitarists use are creating compression through various routes. On most bass guitars strings are pretty balanced anyway. I have found that engaging the compression circuit on amps can be a nice tweak to sound even if the compression level is zero. However by evening up notes compression can rob you of subtlety. When compression is used heavily highs and lows don't contrast as much. Of course if you're struggling to get heard heavy compression may be only thing that works.

"What do you actually play while your metronome/drum machine is ticking away?" I look out for good grooving songs that tie in closely to the beat. 'All Shook Up' is one and my tutor gave me a solid gold line for 'Get It On' that I can play right in there (keep meaning to post it on T&T). Most top songs have a drum pattern and bassline that mesh and compliment each other. You may find some lines feel odd/hard/tricky till you get the right drums however many drummers may not be able to come up trumps so another skill is simplifying or playing the 'proper' line regardless (drums become your passenger, yikes!).

Alot the more sophisticated metronomes have full drum sounds as well as clicks. Really it depends how much you fancy programming your own drum patterns, although most drum machines have presets. What you do need is a good distinct kick drum sound (I've found drum loops can be too 'busy'). This really helps key you in to the downbeat at a subconscious level. If you practise to clicks or beeps you'll be drawn to the snare or hi-hats of a real drummer. I bought a Roland RMP-5 which is a sort of hybrid device drummers use for practise. Nothing like it's 'score mode' where you get marked on how accurately you hit the pad (it does work with fingers, bass style). Very hard to get above 50/100 but if you're getting every bass kick then this is pretty good (alot of bass lines won't always truly cover the snare beat). Works for me.

Great build diary. Does it get the classic Rickenbacker sound (clank, clank)? What do you think really contributes to the Rick bass sound? I've been wondering what taking a basic neck-thru and simply replacing the pickups with Rick ones would create...