4000

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331587677' post='1575525'] There you go - you just condensed a couple of dozen lines into one; you can do it if you try. BUT - as I said, you've already put enough words into my mouth as to make it a waste of time "reasoning" with you, I don't think you're capable.......... you want examples???? [i]*sigh*[/i] [i]"Also, why do you automatically assume that because someone says "so-and-so influenced a lot of people" that the person making the statement is automatically a fanboy?"[/i] Did I? Can't see it anywhere, especially since I'd take fanboy as a bit derogatory. [i]"Ok, seeing as you really seem to have a real bee in your bonnet"[/i] Vacuous at best. [i]can you not separate concept and preference? [/i]I'm not the one who can't decide what an influential musician is. [/quote] 1) You claimed it in a previous thread. You also (IMO obviously) implied it saying "That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk". It's quite possible to say that someone influences folk without even liking them. Marcus Miller has (by my definition) influenced lots of bassists and I can't stand him. But we've been here before. As for your other stuff; gibberish. I really, genuinely wanted to understand your viewpoint, but you don't seem to want to share. Why do you bother posting at all if you won't engage in a decent discussion? Seems like you're the troll IMO.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331585916' post='1575474'] No bees in my bunnet. Call me crazy but since 99.9% of folk on here are musicians, unbelievably on a musicians forum I would have thought it more than a tad obvious what kind of influence I was referring to. But since you've made a lot of fairly basic assumptions as to what i meant or what I should have meant & since you categorise "influence" so broadly I'll pass on answering your troll ITAWI. [/quote] Wasn't trolling, it was a perfectly simple question. I've always failed to understand your reasoning on this point, as it seems do others. My definition of "influence" is one that I believe I share with many other people, although doubtless there are others who disagree. Maybe the issue is that your definition differs from mine, which is what I was getting at. If you actually try to explain yourself for a change we might actually get somewhere. So how would you define an influential bassist? I genuinely want to know. EDIT- Not that I think that Gaye Advert was an influential bassist BTW, but she was an influence on me. Jaco was certainly an influential bassist. So was Stanley Clarke. So was JJ Burnel. All by my definition of course; they influenced people to pick up the instrument or they influenced their approach to it. So who would you say were influential bassists?

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331584822' post='1575447'] This part baffled me too, hence the clarification on my behalf to save my words being taken hugely out of context. [/quote] Don't worry, he's got previous. I'll add that despite not really being much of a Jaco fan, he has *shock horror* been an influence. Not much of one, but a bit.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331579158' post='1575262'] You know you won't; you'll be back to argue your corner That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk. It's one of my pet irks is misplaced claims of "influence"; it usually ends up that someone who's admitted to liking a song or an album by someone is claimed to have [i]been influenced[/i] by them. I rarely believe it until I hear that influencee say so themself. [/quote] Ok, seeing as you really seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about anyone influencing anyone else (especially where you don't happen to like them), please clarify what you describe as "influencing somebody". To me, somebody who inspires someone else to pick up an instrument "influences somebody". Someone who has an impact on the way they play technically, or the way they create lines, or both, or more, "influences somebody". Flea certainly fits the first criteria and probably the others too. Also, why do you automatically assume that because someone says "so-and-so influenced a lot of people" that the person making the statement is automatically a fanboy? I acknowledge Jaco as one of the most influential bassists ever, but I'm not really much of a fan at all. Or can you not separate concept and preference? My first bass influences were probably Lemmy, Phil Lynott and Gaye Advert. Gaye Advert you say? Yep. I saw a picture of her with a blue Rickenbacker and thought "how cool is that?" I'd never even heard her play, but in a sense she influenced me and my direction as a player, even if only in a small way.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331580458' post='1575304'] Yeah. It's about contributing to the 'whole', not leaping about on stage playing distorted bass solos wearing a leotard. Just as an example, and to be proveI have no axe to grind, I've intentionally chosen an example totally outside of my genre, that bass player who was with ABBA. I have no idea what his name is, I have no idea what gear he used and I have no idea of what he looked like or if he has worked with anyone else, but take him out of ABBA and you're left with an adequate guitarist, a pretty good keyboard player and two screeching birds. [/quote] Most of the stuff was Rutger Gunnarsson. Fab player, one of my faves. As for screeching birds though, how very dare you! I challenge you to star-shaped, glitter-covered handbags at dawn! What I don't get is that so many people seem to only like one type of player. Rutger Gunnarson is great. Flea is great. I like supportive, outlandish and everything inbetween. Except Marcus Miller.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1331575147' post='1575151'] A colleague of mine is an English teacher. He knows all about sentences, grammar and stuff like that. In other words, he has great technique. When he speaks though, nothing but dull monologues come out. Nobody wants to listen to him... Is this relevant? [/quote] What does relevant mean?

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331574586' post='1575142'] Oh I don't know 4000 these threads have a habit of blowing themselves up, I'll hit the ejector seat when my soapbox breaks!! [/quote] Well I think I just accidentally-on-purpose shot the tail off.

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331574177' post='1575123'] outrageous [/quote] Let's see; one changed bass playing and bass sounds forever, influencing thousands upon thousands of players in the process. Plus he played some great lines in the context of his band. The other typically has one of the worst sounds I've ever heard, has played some of the most boring music ever created and needs to smile more seeing as he's getting paid wads for being utterly tedious (and IMO somewhat derivative). Isn't this how these threads normally go?

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331573320' post='1575106'] you've taken out of context what i'm saying, as i did you. I'm saying that those who don't know what those such as anthony jackson are doing in a theoretical format, are less likely to realise how clever he is. How can they if they haven't been taught it first? You can't recognise a major scale unless you've been shown what a major scale looks or sounds like.... [/quote] As Jaco said, "cleverness is no substitute for true awareness".

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331572722' post='1575093'] I give up the bold part speaks volumes unfortunately about the snobbery that musicians can sometimes display. Utter madness. [/quote] Indeed. Should we bail now or can we still land her safely???

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331568598' post='1574970'] I don't really care about much else of this thread but this stuck out. Yes Anthony Jackson and Richard Bona deserve more credit because they're technically very good. They're very good because they've practised a lot more than most individuals. I think that deserves recognition when it pays off, which it clearly does with both of them. [/quote] Nonsense. Being technically very good is only any use if it enables you to say make an interesting artistic statement. Music is about art, about creativity. Technique is just an aid to that. The two bassists in question both have something interesting to say, but it's quite possible to be technically very good and have little or nothing to say (Jeff B springs to mind...). Ultimately I think the problem with negative threads is people do start to take offence, everyone knows someone is going to and so it's not really a productive exercise. These sort of things seldom end well, rightly or wrongly. FWIW I'll take Entwistle over MM a thousand times over.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331556080' post='1574613'] True. However,I will make an exception for John Entwistle...mainly because of that 'Bassist of the Millenium' thing that keeps getting touted. I don't even think he's the best bass player to play with The Who [/quote] Don't get me started on Pino with the Who.....wrong, wrong, wrong.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331550413' post='1574448'] File under 'overrated topics'. I don't think there's any such thing, only music I like and music I don't. [/quote] I agree. Except where Miserable Marcus Miller is concerned. ;-)

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1331552263' post='1574501'] I even sing into a small recorder/phone if I don't have a bass at hand. [/quote] This is how I write almost everything, from melodies to harmonies to chord structures to guitar parts to keyboard lines to bass lines to drum parts.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1331548305' post='1574380'] Although the idea of "locking in" with the bass drum can be a perfectly valid way of constructing a bass line, IMO it's up there with the idea that a P Bass sounds good in any situation of having only a narrow awareness of musical genres. The bass is supposed to be the glue between the rhythm and the melody. The bass drum is only a small part of the rhythm in the same way that the lead vocal is only a small part of the melody. A good bassist listens to the whole rhythm and what all the melodic instruments are doing and then constructs a part that fits in and joins them all together. There are "rules" for various types of music that listeners will expect, but these rules vary depending on the genre and even then it's always fun to push the boundaries. The only important thing is: Does it sound good? From a personal view, my first band didn't have a conventional drummer - just a percussionist with no bass drum. The instrument that set the rhythm and tempo was the rhythm guitar and the rest of us played to that. My next band used a drum machine that was programmed with very unconventional and abstract rhythms. In fact, I'd been playing for almost 10 years before I started using "conventional" pop/rock drummer rhythms in my songs - and even then it was done on a drum machine. I didn't join a band with a conventional drummer and me playing bass for another 10 years, so by then I had been playing for a long time without being a "slave" to the bass drum. Because of this background I've always listened to the whole band for both rhythm and melody and worked from there when working out a bass part. [/quote] Makes utter sense to me. FWIW about 90% of what comes out of my head (apart from when I'm noodling), from the simplest riff to the most complex harmony, is sung (I use the term loosely ;-))either inwardly or outwardly before I even touch an instrument. Like you, I used to assume most players were the same, until I met people who had no idea what I was doing.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331490127' post='1573667'] I didn't think we were talking about the drummer's ability to keep time. I thought we were discussing the role of the drums in a band setting and that they don't have to be there to 'keep time' or 'drive the band'. [/quote] Also agree with Nige on this. Just because there are traditionally accepted (for want of a better term) roles for instruments that doesn't mean that's all there is. People seem to forget that you can do anything at all with any instrument within the confines of the sounds it (or you) are able to produce. Anything. Just because you choose to define yourself within certain boundaries doesn't mean everyone has to.

[quote name='Mylkinut' timestamp='1331437457' post='1572857'] Tail-lift's where the bridge starts to lift away from the body. It happens on most Rics [/quote] Eh? I've had 13 or 14 and none of them had it. Of all the dozens (hundreds?) I've actually played IIRC I've only seen 1 with it. Hardly "most"!

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' timestamp='1331464019' post='1573035'] For me it depends on what sort of thing you're playing. I love precision tone but moved to a jazz because I found that the P tended to fall back in the mix as I went up the neck. with the jazz you lose a bit of low end balls but get more focus and power higher up. I'd still like to get a 5 string P for sight reading gigs. [/quote] I always found Js to sound much weedier up the neck. Must be me.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1331117183' post='1567783'] Hey maybe Dr Freud could help. My stuff was brought on by a sort of near death experience driving in the French Alps, so I guess I have post-traumatic stress. My counselling was ok but somehow soon worked its way around to my parents divorce when I was 6 blah blah blah... it was interesting at times and definitely touched on confidence issues but for me it didn't connect with what I was originally there for. Greasing the wheels definitely works for me. But I too tend to reserve it for special occasions these days. Yep I'll go with that. I jump about like a lunatic (and pay for it the next day) which probably keeps it at bay. Yep they gave me beta-blockers at the start too which just made it worse so I soon knocked them on the head. It wasn't the physiology of my brain that was the problem, it was the newly acquired responses (as you said, fight or flight) to everyday situations that needed correcting. My first diazies were the strong ones and I gradually weened myself off them down to the 2s. I still need one (or a half) as a preventative now and again if I'm going to the dentist or a meeting at the school or whatever. Haha yeah I know the feeling. but I just look at some of the most famous professional rock musicians these days who have been in the business for frickin years and think "if they can get off with it then so can I". Check out Mike Watt ffs... Cheers. We had rehearsals last night and it was commented upon about me really gaining in confidence with this singing malarkey. [/quote] I don't think mine was brought on by anything specific but I could be wrong. Have had counselling and identified a general trend of disasters. Although having said that when I was about 6 we had a school nativity play in front of parents and I had to go onstage on my tod to read the lead in / prologue thingy. With no teachers about the other kids talked me into going onstage whilst the intro piano was still being played; I was desperately trying to be heard over the piano when a teacher came onstage and told me I'd gone on too soon. I had to walk offstage halfway through and then go back on 10 minutes later and do it all again. I was mortified. I often wonder if it started there! Yeah, but Mike Watt is Mike Watt. I'm just some bloke down the pub at the best of times. Although having said that he does look like Michael Myers without the mask.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1331314574' post='1571334'] Got a gig tonight and don't go on until 11.30. Am I nervous? Hell yes. I'm bloody hungry but can't eat and I've got shooting pains running down my arms into my hands. Simply caused by fear of screwing up. It's not the people watching, I don't think, but letting down the other members of the band if I balls up really badly. This one is particularly bad as I'm depping, something I've never done before, for an originals band and we've only had one rehearsal. I have no mechanism for dealing with it Oh bugger! My mind's just gone blank and I can't remember any of the tunes! [/quote] I guess one of the advantages of doing originals is initially no-one knows if you make a mistake. I was once in a band and the drummer made an almighty cock-up and threw the rest of us completely for about 8 bars. When we came offstage someone said, with no hint of irony whatsoever, "wow, I loved the middle bit. It really brought across a feeling of chaos".

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1331425867' post='1572810'] Its of no help to the OP but for some reason my body has a weird coping strategy in that the more nervous I am the more relaxed I get so for example if I'm stressed out during a gig I'll start yawning or smiling at members of the audience.Not so bad at a gig but I've failed job interviews as I've been so relaxed they thought I wasnt interested in the job [/quote]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1331155433' post='1568718'] This topic has been quite an eye-opener for me, and a little upsetting reading posts about some of your experiences. I've probably got 1,000 gigs under my belt and have never had this problem. Having said this, it has become obvious to me that over the years I've maybe been a little unforgiving about fellow band mates who have possibly been suffering with this issue and I've not realised, nor been supportive. I will certainly give this consideration in the future. I'm not what I'd call a great player so maybe I'm over confident about my ability but no-one complains and I just seem to enjoy the challenge and buzz of playing live. I really hope that you manage to crack this. I had no idea that this was so commonplace. Best wishes to you all. [/quote] Makes me feel the thread was worthwhile.....

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1331391963' post='1572290'] Well, its not in the top 50 so I guess not a good bass. Rickenbacker maybe?? Both are ungly and unbalanced (Hides under the table from 4000) [/quote] Hey, I used to get mistaken for Henry Rollins you know (actually true, although going back 15 years)! Ricks are the'57 Chevys of the bass world.

[quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331389090' post='1572215'] Hey guys this is quite simple & straight-forward really, ever get the feeling you're a terrible musician haha? For the 4 years i have been playing bass, i do get the feeling I am just not as good as i should be. Despite the practicing of new techniques etc, I have little confidence in myself when it comes how good i believe myself to be, whether its a lack of versatility or crispness. I was just wondering, does anybody else get this same feeling? It can be rather demoralising!! Cheers [/quote] Thinking you're terrible and thinking you're not as good as you should be are two different things. FWIW, many great musicians (or anything else for that matter) feel they're not as good as they should be and it's what drives them to improve.