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Having an audience and allowing them to dictate your creative decisions are two completely different things, and all my comments have revolved around the latter, which you sadly appear to be struggling to grasp - unless of course you’re being deliberately obtuse. Either way Stub, I’m disappointed. ☹️

I don’t agree that it was dismissive. Why is stating that I don’t believe an artist should make artistic decisions based on an audiences preferences dismissive? Would you choose a partner based on your own opinion or the opinions of a bunch of people who don’t even know you? Same principle applies. How could you possibly create something that is satisfactory to you based on a bunch of contrasting opinions anyway? If you think that that is somehow disrespectful to an audience - which you seem to - please explain why. I’m sure if you asked Kate Bush, Joni Mitchell, Roger Waters, Neil Young - whoever - whether an audience should dictate what they create or how they create it they would say absolutely not. That doesn’t mean they don’t respect or appreciate their audience. Why would it?

I’m not quite sure how suggesting I’m a bit up myself as a response to my saying that an audience shouldn’t dictate your artistic decisions is “responding in a similar tone”, but whatever. 😂😂😂

The great irony is that people seem to generally like it. 😁 But - material aside, which always seems to go down pretty well - that could be down to the other members of the band who are likely more entertaining and certainly more audience-focussed than I am. 😉

I have at no point said that it’s better or more worthy, just that it’s the reason why I do it (so maybe just better for me). Not that I should really have to justify the reasons why I make music, FWIW. For me, the best part of music most definitely is not the reason you’ve given. It’s the emotional affect it has on me, always has been, whether listening, writing or playing. And what there is of that is simply gained by playing the music; I don’t need an audience. I’m not a very social person really, am quite happy doing my own thing, on my own, or with a band. And as it’s fulfilling the creative urge that’s the important thing to me it does matter whether aim playing originals or covers. I’m sure you’re right about some cover bands, but sadly that’s not been my experience (which shouldn’t reflect on anyone on here who plays covers). The majority of the cover bands I’ve ever seen - mainly in my area - have played at best passable (and at worst not), often half-hearted versions of the usual songs. As I say, this may be simply a local thing, or maybe I’ve just been unlucky. Having said that, I don’t actively seek out cover bands, never have. It’s just not interesting to me (and these days I find typical pub band volume unbearable anyway), which again is no reflection on people who want to do it. As evidenced by this thread, we all have different motivations.

Obviously I’d prefer that an audience likes it, I’m not that weird. 😂 But it’s really not much of a blow if they don’t. I don’t gauge what I’m doing by someone else’s opinion of it; that way madness lies, in any walk of life. Other band members over the years have sometimes got down if they don’t get a responsive audience but it’s never really concerned me. Audiences - people generally - are so arbitrary anyway. I’ve seen people rave about stuff I think is awful and be disparaging about stuff I think is incredible. In the end, it’s down to you. But yes, the main point is that it will definitely not influence the creative process in any way, shape or form.

Al Krow, as before. 😁

Indeed, and I don’t believe I ever implied that they shouldn’t be able to engage with it, just that they shouldn’t dictate the creative process.

Al Krow - see my post above.

Aa I’ve said several times now, I create music for me, end of. But as people do get to hear it (for whatever reason) it is ultimately transactional. That has no bearing however on the fact that I’m making it to essentially please myself. Do people on here really not grasp the concept of creating something for your own enjoyment? Is it really all just about pleasing a bunch of other people who likely disagree with each other?

You’re reading between the lines and coming up with something that isn’t there. I’m not impressed with myself at all. I am to Kate Bush (to use my own example) far less than the tiniest micro-organism. All I believe in is my right - any artist’s right - to create and perform (in the case of music) whatever it is they’re creating on their own terms, which is all I’ve stated all along. FWIW I come from a fine art background, not an entertainment background. If some of the arguments put forward here were put forward to the majority of the painters, sculptors etc that I’ve ever known, they would laugh in your face. Oh and as I mentioned before, as soon as someone mentions ‘art’ or ‘creativity’ they start getting digs from people implying they’re probably actually a bit crap. Like you have. It doesn’t matter whether I’m good or crap as long as I’m doing something I enjoy on my terms. You want to try it some time. 😉

Did I really?🤔 Of course it is perfectly to possible to bring your own thing to covers - many great artists have done exactly that, as per your examples - but most cover bands I’ve ever seen in my 58 years don’t, at least by design. And of course that’s perfectly valid, as most of their audiences may not thank them if they did. 😉 Regardless, playing covers wasn’t the issue I was commenting on in my initial posts, which I thought was pretty obvious. Again, there seems to be some implication that because I may have stated/implied that playing covers isn’t typically creative in the same way that writing, recording and performing original material is it’s in some way inferior, which I haven’t stated at any point. To me that smacks more of personal insecurities than anything else. I still get the impression that when you start talking ‘art’, some people immediately seem to start feeling like they’re being talked down to, which isn’t the case at all. But just like someone playing covers is perfectly entitled to their reasons for doing what they do, I’m equally entitled to have my reasons for doing what I do and I’ve already stated those several times. “Here Kate, I reckon the second side of Hounds of Love goes on a bit, and I don’t like the way it’s recorded, it’s a bit too reverb-y”. “No problem Ted from Wigan, I’ll re-write the 2nd side just for you - have you any specific suggestions? - and I’ll try and take a bit of reverb off when I re-record it”. Does that get my point across better?😉😂

Utterly irrelevant. What’s that got to do with being creative? Have you actually read my posts?

Also, why have you stated that you’re “a mediocre covers player”, as if I’ve somehow implied I’m somehow above that? It just doesn’t interest me. Why do some people who play covers automatically go into defensive mode whenever somebody who doesn’t play covers talks about being creative? 🙄

I’ve already answered the above; see previous posts and please read them thoroughly. 😉 I think you’re continually missing my point. My point is that what the audience wants has no bearing on the creative process, and that I will present them with what I want to present them with, on my terms, not theirs, and be measured by that. If they accept it, great. If they reject it, fine, but it won’t be changed as a result.

Indeed. ‘Being successful’ (in the context of being popular and making money) shouldn’t factor into artistic decisions, unless that’s what you’re aiming for. I’d be lying if I said It wouldn’t be nice to have millions of people love what you do and for you to make loads of money out of it, but once again that is an entirely secondary consideration and - for me at least - has no bearing whatsoever on the creative process.

It’s kind of a given that what I was saying wouldn’t apply to cover bands because they’re not creating something in the same way an artist is; it’s a completely different thing IMO. Obviously playing covers is mainly about pleasing the audience . Although I’ve played the odd cover in the past 40 years I’ve never been in a cover band (and have never wanted to be), have always written and played original material.

I play and record mainly to fund further recordings (plus I like creating an ‘album’ in the same way I like creating songs or paintings) and to have a night out with my mates. 😉 I’d be just as happy - happier probably - rehearsing instead, if I could make money doing it. The point of creating something is simply to create something, for me at least. I’ll also put it out there in case someone else happens to like it, but they don’t factor into the creative process in any way shape or form. I’ve never tweaked a song or recording because I think someone else may prefer it, that would be utterly pointless from an artistic perspective.

Tell that to Chris Squire, Lemmy, JJB etc. 😉 Also as a songwriter and composer, an audience reaction is far less important to me than making sure I’m doing things how I want to do them. I don’t write or play for the audience, I write and play for me. If the audience likes it - which they generally seem to - that’s a bonus. If not, it doesn’t really bother me. And more to the point, I’m certainly not going to change what I do on their account. I write and play for the same reasons I paint, to fulfil a creative urge. A potential audience is utterly secondary. Of course your motivations may be different. But my point applies to recording too, not just live. At what point do you start tailoring your writing and recording to your audience? I’ve never considered that in 40 years of playing. With regards to the “bass is a bass” thing, as a portrait painter, if I’m painting a portrait of someone I want it to capture them. It just looking “like a person” is not the aim.😉

Any artist who puts their audiences’ utterly random and disagreeing priorities above their own is potentially in for a world of pain. As the saying goes, you can’t please all the people all the time. And “tiny nuances of bass tone” - or any other tone for that matter - can make a big difference to how something is executed and/or perceived. If someone out front, who may not be able to even tell one instrument from another (something that I’ve come across frequently) is the basis for your judgements then I don’t know what to say, only that your priorities are very different than mine.

“Does/will the audience notice?” is the worst possible justification for any creative or artistic choice.

I love pineapple on pizza, it’s the best.

I once let a support band use my backline. The amp was somewhat too powerful for the cab but I only ever had it on about 3 so it was never an issue for me. I gave the bassist clear instructions not to crank it and why. When they’d finished and I went on stage to plug in, the amp was on full. I kid you not. I was NOT happy. When I had my first bass, a new Rickenbacker, while I was at Uni some housemates invited a friend of theirs round. They told me he was a really good bass player and he asked to look at my bass. He’d had a few drinks by then; I reluctantly handed it over asking him to be careful and within about a minute he dropped it, although I managed to catch it. Lesson learned. I’m happy to let people try my basses providing I have faith in them, but if there’s any doubt, nope. In terms of lending a bass to someone on a gig, I’ve done it once I think. I knew a couple of the band members a bit, but not the bassist. Unfortunately his bass, a fretless acoustic with (for me) a fairly high action, crapped out at the start of their gig. I was the only person in the room with a bass - my Azure ‘72 Ric - so I (somewhat reluctantly, as it was worth over £4K even then) handed it over. Of course it was set up for me, so very low action, and had a tone about as far from his as possible; he had oodles of fun trying to control it. He was a really nice chap though and very grateful for my assistance. Have to say in most circumstances I wouldn’t let someone use either of my Rics for a gig unless I really, really trusted them, and there’s hardly anyone I know that falls into that category. We do have a song in my current band that I play 12 string on live, where one of the guitarists plays the bass (I played both parts on the recording), but to say he’s careful with bass would be an understatement. He lives in abject terror of the consequences of damaging it and breaks out in a cold sweat every time I hand it over. 😂

Would anyone actually want to buy it? 😂