ambient

https://www.seat61.com/index-mobile.htm

To get back on point. Previously you and everyone else who had a mind to, could have worked in a creative capacity; either as a musician, a dancer, actor, or whatever, in anyone of thirty different countries. From next January, you’ll be able to do so in just one. Probably the only people who will be able to carry on working across borders are the ones already high up in the pecking order. So how is that helping anyone who’s been left behind? It’s actually cutting off opportunity, because unless they have money behind them, or they're able to do it through academia, then they’ll encounter obstacles. Take DJs for example. A kid with a desire to DJ in a club or bar in Spain or a Greek island could have done that, the opportunity was there, many took it. Now those jobs will be taken by locals, or by youngsters from within the EU. How many young people spent their summers working behind a bar in Spain? Oddly working as a DJ or a dancer in Blackpool just doesn’t have the same air of romanticism about it.

But we won’t necessarily have €75 billion to spend; a figure that ignores by the way, our rebate, it also ignores what we’d have got back in grants and other payments, but just because we would have paid it, that doesn’t mean that we’ll have it to spend.

I think this thread is becoming rather pointless. It’s veered off track so much. As with this everything else with Brexit, two sides with very entrenched views. Here though, you have musicians and artists who have got experience of performing and working across borders, being told they’re wrong, by people who have absolutely zilch experience or ambition of doing so. What bands did forty years ago, has absolutely no bearing on what artists do now.

Have you asked UK farmers about dropping import duties?

What will they do with the specialist breeds? For many their market is the EU, if they can’t sell it there, then they’ll go bust. They also have only a very short space of time to introduce these special breeds; and don’t say they’ve had three years, because Br@@@ has so far been a red, white and blue thing, it’s been something where nothing much will change, it’s been something where we hold all the cards, it’s been oven-ready, yet they still can’t say with 100% certainly what it will be.

Seriously, it’s so easy. The last few times I’ve just taken a MacBook and various controllers for Ableton. I have taken a bass and an effects board, plus luggage all without a problem. My friend took a contrabassoon to a show we both played in Paris before Christmas. Check the stripped down rig Steve Lawson has taken with him to Italy by train.

It’s not just that though. For someone to come here and play, they need a certificate of sponsorship. That has to be issued by an approved and licensed promoter or organiser. How many organisers are going to do that? There’s thousands of creative and artistic events take place every year across the UK, they’re mostly done by independent organisers, with little or no budget. They’re not going to get licensed or officially approved, therefore the guy coming from Amsterdam with his MacBook and midi controller won’t be able to come.

Eurostar to Brussels is a couple of hours, then Thalys to Germany is another hour or so. My trip to Paris a fortnight ago was £36 return. My trip to Stockholm cost me £70 return. I could have flown, my university was paying. They were really happy when I said I’d rather go by train. My friend is currently playing and doing some bass masterclasses in Italy, he’s gone by train. My friend who’s a cellist played in Portugal with Gavin Bryars last year, she went by train. Like I say, there’s no hassle with your gear, it’s city centre to city centre. It’s so easy. It’s not just economics though, that’s what I was saying on here a few hours ago, it’s the cross pollination of ideas, actually meeting people from other countries and playing together, or just seeing first hand what they’re doing.

I travel by train 😁. Most people I know do, it’s cheaper, easier, they don’t make a fuss about gear, and it’s green.

The ending of FoM is only for us too.

Do you think trading with America or the Far East is a particularly good idea, bearing in mind the distances involved and the need to cut down on unnecessary transportation? You also didn’t answer my earlier question when I asked what you thought our farmers would do when our market is flooded with American cheap food.

Maybe ask Martin if he’s seen it recently?

I did something similar 6 or 7 years ago with a really old Yamaha TRB6P. Luckily the guy understood.

Many for the money, many because they enjoy it, many for academic reasons, it depends on the specific field. The point is, whatever their reason, they’re going to run up against obstacles. As was said earlier on this thread, the event that someone is attending has to be by a licensed promoter or organiser. The majority of the tens of thousands of events that take place are independent, so a visa won’t be issued. A friend of mine is currently on a solo tour of Italy, he’s doing a few gigs, and some bass masterclasses. It probably wouldn’t have happened with all the extra expenses.

I should imagine that people coming to Europe from the US will need to get another visa for their European crew, if they’re bothered to come to this backwater.

You’re missing the point. It’s not just the monetary side. Art itself has intrinsic value, which is fostered and enhanced by collaboration with people. That’s why travel is vital for academic artistic practice.

It’s not just musicians, it’s every part of the artistic and creative industry. It’s also preventing us from going there. I’ve played over there as a solo experimental artist several times, I’ve also done academic work there through my PhD, that too will be affected.

The music business....sorry I mean the whole creative industry has moved on since the early 1970s. You’ve performed or worked there in a creative capacity how many times?

Do you write for the Daily Mail? Most countries have adopted the EU’s very strict food standards, the reason being, they don’t want poorly produced foodstuffs. What happens to our farmers and food producers whilst we’re importing cheap American stuff?

This has exactly what to do with the topic?

It’s not just bands; that seems to be the misunderstanding here and in other places, where people are saying that bands toured in the 60s and 70s. Though they’re really demonstrating a misunderstanding of how the modern independent music scene works with that comment. People saying we should move with the times are missing the point too. This is the times, being able to jump on a Eurostar and perform without hindrance in Paris; or vice versa is the times, that’s how the current scene has evolved to work. No, it’s arts in general, be it solo performers in the experimental scene, painters, poets, authors, actors, dancers, basically all creatives. I would argue that the reason we have such a vibrant and respected arts scene, is due in part to the cross pollination of ideas, fostered by close collaborations with other artists from across Europe. I’ve seen it, and experienced it.

It’s not just a question really wanting to, it comes down to the economics. You also need to consider that people on this side of the channel; the promoter or organiser will also have added expenditure. They need to be licensed and issue a sponsorship certificate. Bear in mind that most of the thousands of little art and music festivals that take place across the UK every year, are running to a very tight budget, they just won’t bother. I’m not referring to the likes of Glastonbury, my university holds several experimental music festivals each year, there’s the Huddersfield festival that attracts visitors from across the UK and Europe. Also bear in mind that they spend money when they come.

The Edinburgh festivals; fringe and literature, and Womad have had problems over the last few years. They’ve invited people over, and their visa application has been turned down. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/06/edinburgh-arts-festivals-lobby-for-urgent-visa-reforms I’m guessing it’ll even affect larger US bands too? If they’re on tour and are used to hiring a European crew, they’ll have to get visas for them to be able to travel here.

I was just reading a report in the Guardian, warning about the potential rise in modern day slavery within agriculture following the changes. Unless you’re prepared to spend more on your fruit and vegetables, then it’s inevitable. Are the 100,000 vacancies in NHS England going to be filles from within the UK? I’m guessing not otherwise there would’ve be the vacancies. Nurses and doctors are going abroad to work, where they’re better looked after. My aim once I have my PhD is to move abroad. I know many people the same. Everything I’m currently doing is with that in mind. I’m studying french for an hour or so a day, I’m doing teacher training modules at the same time as my PhD. I have another year and a half. Will I be missed? Probably not, but I believe the UK will ultimately be a lot poorer in many ways if they continue along this road. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/21/immigration-rules-post-brexit-could-fuel-modern-slavery-say-charities