Shockwave

[quote name='alexclaber' post='686427' date='Dec 16 2009, 03:46 PM']but you went from cheery emails to one "haven't received the cab yet" email and then stopped replying to my emails updating you on when it was sorted, when it had been boxed up and when it had been sent. The first I heard from you that you'd even received the cab was when you sent me a link to this thread.[/quote] By that point you had just told me that you forgot to put into the right screws for the handles, which was a day after i posted the cab back at my cost. If you had remembered beforehand then i wouldnt have had to post it back, saved the money and all i had to do was put in larger screws. I guess i just lost my patience and temper. My way of dealing with it is to go silent on the matter. Rather then go a bit nuts via E-mail.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='686399' date='Dec 16 2009, 03:19 PM']Yes, there was a serious QC problem with the first cab's handles. But I refute that the cabs are flimsy,[/quote] I think i should have stated that i would be surprised that they would take as much external abuse as traditional cabs. My fault i am sorry. [quote]And regarding the service nightmares, I don't have tons of stock sitting around and if Rob had done as I'd originally suggested and waited for me to get a replacement to him before I collected the original problem cab then he'd have not only saved himself that shipping cost[/quote] Thats what i would have done, had you not say you could get a replacement to me out that same week. [quote]but also those wasted hours fiddling with the cab himself (bear in mind that doing so would arguably void any legal warranty) and not had those many days when he didn't have a cab at all.[/quote] But you yourself in that initial reply to my e-mail after i said i had a problem with the handles said that you were sending out replacement parts to me, you also stated that you were sending the appropriate instuctions so i could fix it myself. you didnt suggest to just send it straight back until after i spent hours fiddling with the cab and reported my findings. [quote name='alexclaber' post='686399' date='Dec 16 2009, 03:19 PM']If a similar situation ever happens again (which probability dictates it has to at some point) then I shall insist: 1. Don't try to fix it yourself. 2. Wait for a replacement to arrive. 3. Let that same courier take the original cab away.[/quote] Probably a good idea

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='686383' date='Dec 16 2009, 03:04 PM']I haven't been a mod for months. Keep up. I just think if you'd spoke to Alex before all this, he might have advised you to wait for the speakers to loosen up, first. Amongst other things.[/quote] Yeah look a couple of posts back, already apologised, keep up I already acknowledged that the speakers need loosening up, so that part of the review can be disreguarded as i already admitted. As to how i handled the other things, well that a difference of opinion. REMEMBER GUYS, The replacement cab is fine! Alex has been very accomodating, It was just unfortunate that the original cab had problems which Alex himself has admitted to. Its just a bit unfortunate the thread has blown out of proportion, which i admit i am largely responsible for. But i have to defend my actions, i felt like the general forum populace should have been aware of the ENTIRE transaction. Even if Alex tried everything to rectify the situation, i still would have mentioned the initial problem, as it wouldnt have been an honest review otherwise. Besides, if it wasent me that brought it up then someone else would have eventually. People should remember whilst i am a moderator, i am also a normal guy too, and people should view this review as from the point of view of a normal forum member.

Bugger, i just remembered, sorry wateroftyne, i keep thinking your still a moderator! Post edited. I apologise

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='686225' date='Dec 16 2009, 12:27 PM']As I've said before, I was suprised Shockwave posted this before it was all resolved. Airing dirty laundy in public doesn't help anyone, especially a start-up like Alex who, at this time, doesn't have a solid reputation to fall back on. Had it not been resolved satisfactorily, by all means... flame away. But as it stands, IMO there was still time for Alex to put things right. I think he should have been given a chance. As for the veiled criticism of how he moderates his own forum - in public, by a moderator... Disappointing.[/quote] Everyone i have talked to in my messenger list agreed that i had been more then patient during the process. The problems had been resolved or laid to rest when i recieved my replacement cab, the deal was concluded and i gave an honest view on my opinion of the service and cab. As i mentioned before i do not treat small manufacturers or freinds of the forum any differently to big multinational corporations, both should provide good service. In fact i feel i have been more patient then most, as other people have given running commentary as to how their various deals were going sour (Read Peds Roland problem). I waited until after the transaction had been completed to air my views. Just because Alex is a member on this forum, does not give him immunity from a balanced review. A startup company should succeed on a good product and service. Say we have a small startup company making poor quality pens or stationary, they dont work as intended or the service given to customers was terrible, Should we defend that company because they dont have a reputation to fall back on and its a startup? Because thats what one of your statements say to me. Luckily Alex does not make a consistantly poor product or give poor service but like everything in life, there can be inconsistancies. I am sure Barefaced will carry on regardless of this review. Its a good product, that does exactly what it says on tin and i have stated from the start that it was a one off problem. As to the last comment, people on here have criticised how i moderate forums in public and private from moderators and general membership alike, i never asked for an apology as i accept them as faults of mine. For what its worth, i apologise for the critisicm. Though i dont see why a normal forum member be able to question a moderators actions, but not a fellow moderator (Who knows the job better) To reiterate. Considering the problems with the first cab, and the fact that i got a replacement, means the problem i had was resolved, but it still doesant mean i should cover up the fact there was a problem in the first place. Edit: If airing dirty laundry in public = giving negatives in a review then thats news to me! If i didnt say anything about the "dirty laundry" as you put it, how could my review be accurate and morally correct?

[quote name='Apex' post='685911' date='Dec 15 2009, 11:36 PM']Rob, you're welcome to drop round and look at the finish if you would find that helpful. I know it's not a Vintage but it is an example of bareFaced workmanship.[/quote] I already looked at your compacts finish on Sunday with your offspring! Similarily your invited over to mine to try the vintage out! Rob.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='685850' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:47 PM']Hey, less of the sarcasm, man. Maybe you should explain yourself better. So you mean voluntary supression? That's fair enough. I read it as you suggesting that it was being suppressed by the powers-that-be. I just wanted to clarify that, that's all.[/quote] Well technically its voluntary supression on parts other then the barefaced forum. Alex has been recently known to remove comments on his own forum. I can see why people on here wouldnt want to bring up negatives about their cab on here when so many people are happy with theirs and when the creator of the cab is an active member. Hence why other forums might have more varied opinions. Whilst i have met Alex in real life and hes a very nice chap, i do not treat his products any different then from any other manufacturer large or small. Which means a certain level of customer service, and that i have no qualms in making my feelings clear. Then again i am usually more forgiving then most people. (Believe it or not) People who were in the loop of my problems before this review was posted praised me for being so patient, and that they would have flew off the handle ages ago!

[quote name='MythSte' post='685400' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:48 PM']Thats a pretty bold statement. Its possible, dare i say probable that other Barefaced Owners simply enjoy the tone, weight, value etc. I gave my cab a glowing review because it sounds how i want it to sound, which isnt how you want yours to sound. Likewise mine functions like i want it to function - just because the reasons yours doesn't function how you need it to are Alex' "fault" doesn't take away from mine, or any other satisfied barefaced owners experience. And if you look in the Compact tour thread there are a lot of people who have said they [u]dont[/u] like the compatct for whatever reason. Its one thing to "white knight" a product, but if your not careful people will think your trying to do the opposite for the sake of it. This isnt a machine that needs fighting! Obviously its not that black and white with all the problems you've had. And when i spoke to you before you said that you hadn't just given Alex the benefit of the doubt and you'd have waited for a replacement from any company, which is pretty admirable IMO. I know if I'd have received a cab like that it would have gone straight back regardless of where it came from.[/quote] As i mentioned to Alex in an E-mail, i hope it doesant turn out to be what happened with Ashdown gear on here. IE became the fad and then people start to point out the negatives about it, and eventually people cant stand Ashdown. But the way some people go on about their Barefaced cabs in response to my opinions could be for one of the following reasons. 1) They dont want to believe that a cab they spent a large amount of money on may have problems or is not right for them. 2) They dont want their cab to be Devalued in the second hand market by someone elses experiences. (and if anyone knows me, they would know i would be very very wary of this knowing the gear i get through!) 3) Alex is a well respected friend of many forum members and any attack made on barefaced products, people treat as a personal attack on Alex (Which this is not) 4) It is genuinely a lovely cab and really is the dogs bollocks. I didnt make a sweeping statement that everyone must be lying when they say they like their product, but it certainly "seems" like it as it draws comparisons to the old Ashdown fad. Again, i think Alex's cabs are wonderful for their loudness and Lightweight, it does exactly what it says on the tin. But in my opinion, its not the be all and end of all of cabs like some peoples opinions are.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='685287' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:25 PM']Fairly sure music playing is not the way to bed them in, too compressed and inclined to be very loud without really pushing the speakers. A 20hz sine in audacity and putting that through will make not much sound and need not much power to push it to xmax (as the speakers are unloaded that low) which is where tyou want is worn in to. Claber cab probably tell you exactly how many volts/watts that will take, although dunno how you'll find out if you are putting that into it.[/quote] Sorry i meant "Sound files" Not music files

Hang about guys! I never said it couldnt do the AWS tone i was after, that was musicman20. Wil mentioned he perceieved a lack of Mids. I said its getting close to the tone. Stop trying to prove me wrong on comments i never made! It seems to be me that every barefaced user is Whiteknighting (for lack of a better word) Barefaced and making it seem like the cabs can do no wrong, which is very similar to what happened when Ashdown gear was popular on here and was first questioned as to how great it really was. (And look what happened to the opinion of Ashdowns on BC) And another thing is that people appear to be passing comment on my minor comments on the cab itself, when the bulk of the problems in my review were in the experience of buying the cab in the first place. I have already said i was going to wait til the speakers bedded in. Probably going to run a few music files through it of low bass tones. Alex has emailed me to sort out some settings i can use to get the tone i want, like i knew he would!

[quote name='Musicman20' post='684721' date='Dec 14 2009, 11:56 PM']Rob I'm a big AWS fan and he uses 10s with a stingray and tube amp. Loads of his tone is oh his ultra aggressive finger style, and bass, but, and no disrespect to anyone, for that classic punk punch you should go for 10s or 12s, IMO they do sound different to me. I've been playing punk for 14 years plus, and I like my orange 1x15, but you need some 10s in there! I await to be told I'm wrong, but that's life![/quote] I know what Brians rig is and that his tone is from an 8X10 ampeg, i told that to Alex and sent a link to AWS stuff, he said that the 15's would be fine and it makes no difference in speaker size as the 15's are full range. Which is why i went for the Vintage.

[quote name='Daquifsta' post='684599' date='Dec 14 2009, 10:19 PM']Not related to any of the exchanges in this thread, but I do have some prior knowledge of the dreaded T nuts from my model aircraft days. What we used to do was install them as normal so that the points bit into the wood. We then popped them back out, put a dab of two pack epoxy or super glue underneath (don't get any on the threads!) and then put it all back together. Voila - no more T nuts dropping out.[/quote] Thats what i had to do when i put the inital one back together it seemed the only solution!

[quote name='Musicman20' post='684583' date='Dec 14 2009, 09:58 PM']My thoughts are that you might be better suited to another cabinet.[/quote] Well on the initial advice, Alex said that it would be fine to emulate the AWS tone. Its kinda close to it at the moment, but running it in will tell if it truly can manage that particular tone. (Oh and an amp upgrade which is in the works)

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='684563' date='Dec 14 2009, 09:45 PM']Picking up on Mark's suggestion, I think I'm known to be a fan of Alex's work. Really sorry to hear about Shockwave's experience, and I'm delighted that it seems to be getting sorted now.[/quote] Well nothings sorted as i havent decided what to do yet! I always knew there was an option to return it so there was never a problem with that.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='684459' date='Dec 14 2009, 08:36 PM']Agreed. But you did publish all the correspondance with regards to your Roland experience. Kinda makes for interesting reading.[/quote] With all due respect, Roland werent here so there was no possibility of turning into a public discussion between the two parties. I agree with Ped.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='684417' date='Dec 14 2009, 08:13 PM']Also, I said to Rob that I'd arrange to have the cab collected on the same day as he received a replacement cab from me - that way he'd have been able to use the cab with the dodgy handles until the replacement arrived, and not have the cost of returning the cab. Unfortunately he insisted that he could the cab shipped back to me for only £25 and that that would be much more convenient for him and he sent it almost immediately whilst I didn't have the replacement cab sorted for quite some time. And the shipping cost him more than expected probably because he'd thrown away the original packaging and his multiple layers of cardboard solution added quite a bit more weight. Obviously the whole issue arose because I screwed up in the first place (again, sorry!) but Rob, I wish you'd been a little less impetuous and not gone trying to fix the problem yourself, I wish you'd kept the original packaging (at least until the end of the one month trial period), and I wish you'd let me collect the cab once a replacement had been shipped to you. That would have made your experience significantly less painful, especially as I realised that the problem was the two screws being far too small before I received the returned cab and thus I could have sent you the correct long fat screws to put in, which would have entirely solved the problem (and you'd have been £50 better off). But with your impatience to sort things out I rather failed to keep control of the fix - again, sorry! Alex[/quote] Just found this in an email [quote]From: Barefaced Bass ([email protected]) Sent: 23 November 2009 09:18:25 To: Robert Quick ([email protected]) I have a Vintage just waiting for the tweeter to go in, so I can send you that one this week and get the cab collected on the same day, you just need to box up your current cab safely in the original packaging.[/quote] Anyway, i will contact you when i decide what to do with the Vintage. I am unsure, i'll play it in a bit more and see. Cheers! Rob.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='684417' date='Dec 14 2009, 08:13 PM']Just to clarify a couple of things - tee-nuts don't screw into plywood, they bite into it and are held in by the tension of the bolts. Once the bolts are tightened up you effectively have eight clamps gripping each speaker frame very hard. But they are a bastard to deal with - put too much pressure on the screwdriver when undoing them and they pop out, hence Rob's pains! Great once they're done up though.[/quote] [quote]Also, I said to Rob that I'd arrange to have the cab collected on the same day as he received a replacement cab from me - that way he'd have been able to use the cab with the dodgy handles until the replacement arrived, and not have the cost of returning the cab. Unfortunately he insisted that he could the cab shipped back to me for only £25 and that that would be much more convenient for him and he sent it almost immediately whilst I didn't have the replacement cab sorted for quite some time. And the shipping cost him more than expected probably because he'd thrown away the original packaging and his multiple layers of cardboard solution added quite a bit more weight.[/quote] I was under the impression via e-mails that you were going to send a new one out that week. I had to send it via the other shipping because i have no way of getting a courier to pick up something from my place which i explained already. I didnt chuck away the packaging but i did have to flatpack it down. I didnt know how to put it back together so i did what i thought best and then packed it some more! [quote]Obviously the whole issue arose because I screwed up in the first place (again, sorry!) but Rob, I wish you'd been a little less impetuous and not gone trying to fix the problem yourself, I wish you'd kept the original packaging (at least until the end of the one month trial period), and I wish you'd let me collect the cab once a replacement had been shipped to you. That would have made your experience significantly less painful, especially as I realised that the problem was the two screws being far too small before I received the returned cab and thus I could have sent you the correct long fat screws to put in, which would have entirely solved the problem (and you'd have been £50 better off). But with your impatience to sort things out I rather failed to keep control of the fix - again, sorry! Alex[/quote] I dont think i was impetuous, I had already waited past the date i was to recieve the cab, and wanted to have a working cab. I decided to open it up before you sent out the spare parts just incase i couldnt put the tee nuts in the cab because the current holes could have been too close to the brackets. I opened it up and saw that the screws never missed the brackets, at that point i knew that the screws werent man enough for the job. If i had waited until the parts came through only to open it up and found it was another problem completely then i would had to wait another week to get the new screws through (thats if you remembered in time that you forgot to put the screws back in anyway) I just wanted a working cab. I was only impatient considering the times you said the cab was to be ready and sent out, only for it to be put back a few more days. If i had waited for the parts to get here, then open the cab up only to find i needed different parts instead (Which is what would have happened) then i would have had to wait longer for the problems to be sorted out. Rob.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='684381' date='Dec 14 2009, 07:54 PM']Hi Rob, If I were you, based on what you've said then I wouldn't keep the cab. Send it back, I'll give you a refund for all your costs so all that'll you'll have wasted is your time, and then buy another cab. If you're not going to use the cab for gigging because you think it's fragile then there's no point owning it.[/quote] As you know, i already know about the return policy, i havent made a decision yet, I guess i am mostly semi satisfied due to the experience as opposed to the actual cab itself. I do not gig very regularily so my perceieved flimsyness is not so much an issue with me. However it is my opinion which i feel other people should know if they plan to regularily gig with it. [quote]I've noted the points about the velcro - on previous cabs I used velcro from top to bottom but that made the grill nigh on impossible to remove, so in future I'll use about twice as much as on your cab. The tweeter doesn't hiss, that's your bass/pedals/amp - tweeters don't create hiss, they just reproduce whatever's in the signal chain - this tweeter is very transparent and goes very high so you will hear all the hiss from your equipment. The tee-nuts/bolts clamp the speakers in very securely but it is an art removing the speaker without causing them to pop out - unfortunately you removed the speaker without telling me so I didn't have a chance to advise you on the best method![/quote] Whilst this is true, some of the tee nuts werent securely screwed as a number of them only partially covered the wood (IE a small section of the tee nut isent secured into wood). I realised when i was unscrewing them that something was dropping out, when i started undoing them more gently, the tee nuts were still dropping out. [quote]There have been no other problems with handles on Barefaced cabs - but this was entirely self-inflicted by me putting the handles on quickly for the Brighton Bass Day demo and forgetting that was a temporary fix. Certainly something that won't happen again! As I said before, I'm sorry it caused such pain.[/quote] I understand that this was probably one off, Though i still question how good the handles really are. Maybe a handle that uses more then one screw per end would feel more solid? [quote]Regarding the apparent lack of lows, either the speakers haven't loosened up yet (how many hours has it been used at high SPL for?) or you're doing something seriously wrong with your EQ. It has much bigger lows than the vast majority of bass cabs but the speakers do take some time to run in.[/quote] I havent ranted it that much admittedly. Somehow i was under the impression that you ran in the speakers during testing before sending them out. [quote]The last thing I want is a semi-satisfied owner, so I suggest finding something to replace it and then let me know when you want it collected, obviously at your convenience. If you'd like a refund before you send it back so you can buy whatever else you choose, then that's fine by me as long as I get the cab back relatively soon afterwards! Alex[/quote] I'll make a decision at somepoint soon. Thanks for getting back to me, i was already aware i can return it because of the return policy. What is your position based on the partial refunds? Should people pay for the return of a cab that is not fit for purpose? Or is shipping refunded? On this assumption, if i returned this cab, wouldnt i get shipping refunded twice as well as the full price of the cab? Cheers! Rob.

[quote name='MythSte' post='684361' date='Dec 14 2009, 07:37 PM']Bugger man :wacko: I am a little unsure as to the fundamental note thing? Can you compare it to a tone that you think you should be able to get that you cant? Does that makes sense? hehe. It definately took a few weeks for my speakers to bed in properly. Those lows seemed to get lower and tighter. I hope they bed nicely on yours too![/quote] Its sorta similar to if you used a all valve amp and a Low B string. The lower the note, the more power it needs and the quieter it gets, thats kind of what i get with the cab. This is comparing it against a Marshall 1x18 (Which frankly was pretty awful) and a Peavey 4x10. Those two cabs when playing the low B made my bowels quiver, but not the barefaced. However Alex does point out that the Big one is better for this sort of thing, Which i also pointed out in my review. The Vintage is named the Vintage for a reason, for that reason, it wasent a major point I made in the review.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='684307' date='Dec 14 2009, 06:51 PM']I'm sorry to hear you've had all these problems. However, had I been in this position, I'd have sent the whole thing to Alex beforehand to let him know I was about to post it. Just sayin'. I hope you get yourself sorted.[/quote] I have let him know about the thread.