Rick's Fine '52

Welcome to basschat. I had a similar dilemna. I received this teachers CV, and thought she had all the neccessary attributes to help me improve my playing;

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1348518259' post='1814768'] Ah, I was wondering why you wanted a second brass one, maybe some sort of not wanting to use the original incase it broke.... Ive got bone blanks too. Can knock one of those up easy. You already have ma details. [/quote] No probs, brass one's as good as in the post. Nice one!

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1348517529' post='1814743'] A slug is how a material is supplied to a manufacturer before they work with it, like a blank. Heres a picture of it anyway [/quote] Thats what I thought, but I need a bone one, which is what i thought you were offering. I have a brass one already. PM'd.

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1348515601' post='1814698'] The cost would not be as unviable as you might think. I do it mostly for fun, so chuck in a couple bob atop p&p. The brass slug i have i found at work, so no costs there. [/quote] Sounds great, PM me your address and I'll send you the original brass one to size match (I just found it after a lengthy search through the parts drawer, it was right at the bottom!). Very generous of you. What do you mean by brass slug?, sorry, excuse my dumbness!!

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1348512248' post='1814629'] Ive got a brass slug about the correct thickness for a nut (just give yours a quick measure, the slug is barely over 3mm), and having made a few bone nuts before (my resume, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/138446-homemade-bass-bone-nut/page__p__1337438__hl__bone%20nut__fromsearch__1#entry1337438"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1337438[/url]) i could produce one for you. Awesome build btw.... [/quote] Thanks Tommo. fantastic work on the bone nut, very impressive work. I think the cost of getting one of these made would be unviable though, unless you wanted my brass one as a trade! I wish I had the patience to create one, like that. In fact, I've been looking for my brass one today, and it seems to have disappeared, which is not good!

[quote name='MrFingers' timestamp='1348511629' post='1814613'] [/quote] Thanks, if its even 10% as good as your shoreline, I'll be delighted! You need to make me a repro tag for it though!!

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1348507566' post='1814548'] Great project - look forward to seeing the final bass. I'd just go repro for the pickup, there are some great options these days. I've got a some Voodoo (Peter Florence) jazz pickups in a Fender clone, and they are everything you'd want or expect from an original Fender Jazz bass. [/quote] Thanks Bassbod. Yeah, I'm undecided on the pickup, I think I'll get something cheap as a stop-gap, rather than spend £100 on a good new one, rather save that towards some real ones. Not sure yet, I'll see what's out there whilst waiting for the body to arrive.

[sub][quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1348484090' post='1814034'] You cannot quantify these qualities in an old instrument , so can everybody put away their clipboards and whitecoats and leave the vintage stuff to the people who enjoy it . [/quote][/sub] Are we done then? Thank God for that, albeit 5 pages later than it should have been. Done.

[font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]OK, time for another instalment.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Here’s the hardware for the Project;[/color][/size][/font] [list] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Chrome bridge & pickup covers, these are originals from 1966[/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]F-Neckplate, with 131285 serial number[/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Knurled knobs, again from ‘66[/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]60's original thumbrest, impossible to tell exact year.[/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Pots, cloth wires, and jack, dated 6608/6609[/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Strap buttons, these are from ’65, I need another one for the rear of the headstock![/color][/size][/font] [*][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Tuners, reverse Klusons. These are originals from ’64, and will do until I can get some ’66 ones, if at all? These are fine though.[/color][/size][/font] [/list] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]So that’s what I have at the moment. [/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]The body is currently being aged, so not 100% sure when that will be with me, these things take time.[/color][/size][/font] [s][font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]I also need a nut. I have the original nut that came with the neck, which is brass, and I’d like an exact copy of that made, but not sure where to do that, so I’ll probably just get a curved white nut, and hope it fits OK? [/color][/size][/font][/s][color=#FF0000][font=Verdana][size=3]Edit. Sorted, thanks to tommorichards top man![/size][/font][/color] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]I need another 60’s strap button for the back of the headstock.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Pickups. This is the hardest bit. I have a back up in place, in order to get the thing working and playable, but I’m on the hunt for some 60’s, grey bottom pickups. If anyone spots some, I’d be grateful for the heads up, unless they are £500, like the ones on eBay USA at the mo!![/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]I think the next post will be when the body arrives, or I find some pickups. But, it’s getting there. [/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Here’s the hardware pics;[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Thanks for looking.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Rick[/color][/size][/font]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348441368' post='1813770'] Regarding the collectability and value of Alembics versus Fenders, I think the most significant difference is that the older Fenders are widely regarded to be better than the new ones , in the common public perception at least , and are in limited supply as only a finite number remain in existance . Alembic however , are still going strong as a company and are made better than ever , and although vintage Alembics are relatively uncommon, these basses are not in limited supply in so much as new Alembics are even better than the old ones, and if you hanker for an old spec. one , Alembic can make you one to vintage spec, no problem. [/quote] All very true.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348436102' post='1813703'] I'm not brand loyal at all. Most instruments disappoint me in one way or another, including Alembic. It's very interesting that you read so much into what I typed though. It's not really a clear example of the issues you talk about. The seller just mentions laminations as part of wear and tear but there's no indication of what has happened and where. We'll just have to take your word for the rest of it. Alembic wouldn't never admit to there being a problem unless they had no choice but if the lamination issue was as significant as you say, I'd expect to see a lot more online discussion about it. However I'm open minded about the issue and would love to learn more. [/quote] From your threads, I imagine most things disappoint you, not just Fenders and Alembics, and we haven't even started on your Steinberger yet!! I don't know anyone who owns a series 1 alembic, not many around, especially in the uk, so it doesnt surprise me at all that there's little discussion about it. Feel free to research the issue some more though, I care less than little about them these days.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348433063' post='1813650'] Basschat and many other forums hold the MIJ Fenders in very high regard. All I was saying is that they are good, but worth no more than usual. Hype comes to mind. [/quote] Never heard that before, in my experience they are better quality than the CIJ's though.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1348432336' post='1813636'] It is the norm IME and I almost feel embarrassed when I mention it, I know it isn't heard when plugged in, but it really [i]really[/i] bugs me. Why can't they make a new bass sound and feel like an old one and why oh fekin why do Fender put roundwound strings on their reissues? [/quote] They can't make guitars like the old ones, otherwise people craving 'that' tone, wouldnt pay small fortunes to get it. That go's for Gibbo's too. I don't know why though.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348432750' post='1813642'] obviously not an original, but my JV seems to have less tight feeling strings than other '57 P basses I've played too. It gives it a certain tone. But.... how and why is it? [/quote] Mine too. Because '82 JV's are the most accurate reissues ever made by Fender, bar none. may explain alot of it.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348428688' post='1813552'] "Many others"? I'd be really interested to know your source(s) for this. The only laminating issues I'm aware of with Alembic have been with the headstock joint but those have result in a crack in the finish rather than delamination due to shrinkage. Its not a big deal. They're very solid, well engineered instruments. [/quote] Arr, defending your bass choice now i see, don't you like it when someone points out issues with something you may own?? This is why I don't make posts on things that may be disrespectful to owners, so i steer clear of being critical of others choices, as it's not neccessary. I could happily post to all sorts of threads on here being negative about all sorts of instruments, but they would serve no purpose, and show little respect. Personally I don't give a hoot what you think, especially when it comes to vintage Fenders, as you are clearly out of your depth. But you obviously enjoy it, so I'll humour you. OK, there are two Series 1 Alembics on eBay.com at the moment, so not much to demonstrate my point at this very moment, however, one of which has lamination issues. The seller, who appears to know what he's talikng about (I'm sure you'll have something to say on that), even makes reference to this being a common issue in the ad. Thats 50% of those listed, with lamination issues, which, is not opinion. Here's the link. And yes, I've seen countless others, many in person, with significant delamination. [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-vintage-Alembic-series-1-bass-rare-very-collectible-year-model-KOA-BEAUTY-/280954016459?pt=Guitar&hash=item416a2a12cb"]http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-vintage-Alembic-series-1-bass-rare-very-collectible-year-model-KOA-BEAUTY-/280954016459?pt=Guitar&hash=item416a2a12cb[/url]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1348430666' post='1813591'] One other thing about my old bass - there is never any fret buzz, despite my heavy touch and all new basses seem to buzz, no matter how high the action is. [/quote] I've also found this, inclusing the CS relic I had, vibration and buzz seems to be quite accepted on new basses, perhaps its the norm, and not heard when plugged in.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348430349' post='1813585'] I must admit I agree with this, but on my part I'm a bit intrigued by the whole mid 90s MIJ basses being 'the holy grail'. I had one as my first real P bass (a 62 reissue). Very well made and solid P bass, but the tone wasn't as strong as the latest MIA P basses, and I don't agree with the price they command. £400-410 is enough...the rest is just nostalgia and people creating a buzz about a bass that is good, but not totally amazing. My 2009 MIA cost me well under the price they are now as it was a closing down sale, and it is flat out the best Fender I have played/owned....I want it to be the P bass I keep forever. I'd love to hear a MIA P from 2012 and cf it to a 1960s model....im sure this could be organised. My 2009 is that good that I've craved a maple boarded version since I've had it. I've currently got a MIA Jazz to match it (2011), but I want another P just to feel I've got the option for that grindy smooth maple board the new ones have. But, I can then see myself wanting the maple board Jazz and having all four. Not stupidly priced so it is possible, but its a case of getting 'good uns'. [/quote] I've never heard of mid 90's MIJ's ever being coveted, let alone referred to as the Holy Grail. In fact, there's probably 100 on ebay right now, not exactly the Holy Grail??

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1348428230' post='1813540'] Thanks Rick - I won't rush out to try some custom shop models, (something I have been seriously considering). I know exactly what you mean about the feel and sound of a nice pre CBS bass - they ruined me for all new basses, which just feel and sound wrong in comparison. There is something about my old Jazz with it's heavy gauge worn flats that is just so 'right' for me. I bought it in 1980 when you could get pre CBS Jazzes easily for £250 - £400 and it's still my favourite bass after buying and selling various modern basses. Now I want the same bass as my old one, but unmodified and completely original - where to find one though? [/quote] '63 Jazz, there's plenty out there, but you'll need deep pockets. What spec is yours? (Colour/guard etc).

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1348425442' post='1813488'] You obviously don't read as many BC threads as I do Rick - how do you rate the current custom shop Fenders in comparison to pre CBS models and where do you consider the current American and MIM standards and road worns fit in the analysis? I have a 'customised' '63 Jazz and my friend has 2 lovely original pre CBS Jazzes. I haven't found anything like them tone and feel wise in the current Fender range, but I haven't tried any custom shop models yet. The nearest I've found in tone and feel is a Chinese Farida copy (£150 new) and even the Squier CV Jazz feels more like the old ones to me than any modern standard Fender. Steve. [/quote] You obviously don't read as many BC threads as I do Maybe not!! How do reissues compare with originals?, in my opinion, and experience, they don't, simple as that. I have an original '58 precision, slim maple neck, very warm pickup sound, proper P bass sound if you like, arguably my best sounding, and playing pre-cbs bass. I also had (And advertised on here last year) a custom shop '58 relic. The only similarity was the look. The custom shop appeared to make no attempt to make it sound, or feel, like an original. the neck was much chunkier than a real bass of this era, more akin to a '52 Precision. despite being a relic, the neck was full of thick lacquer, and therefore felt nothing like an original. Sound wise, similar story. It had some very responsive, 'new' sounding pickups, very bright, trebly sound, even with the bass up, it just didnt have 'that' sound. The strings also felt too tight (does that even make sense??), and i found it quite hard to play. It did[i] look [/i]fabulous though. It is a cliche, and people will reply and mock this statement, but playing these old basses is like wearing your favourite old jeans When they are 2 weeks past their wash date!), whilst sitting in front of an open fire, eating hot, buttery crumpets. I know, what a load of tosh, but it's true, and unless you've sat and played one of these, plugged into a nice on valve bassman, you won't know what i mean. they are just the most comfortable, warm and mellow things ever, early Jazzes are the same. The CS bass was similar in playing to my '68 telecaster basses. MIM basses are very random, I've seen and played great ones, and terrible ones. Roadworns are pretty good, I havent played one thats not good, I still think they're quite pricey at c.£700 though, but they do seem to spend more time putting them together than regular MIM's. AVRI'sis a similar story, from my experience, I would always advise playing one of these before buying, as there is alot of variance. I would rather pay a bit more, and get a Fullerton reissue, these are excellent reissues in my experience. The early JV's ('82), are the closest to feel and sound that I've come across in any reissue (Luke is selling a great '57 now), far superior to the Fullertons of the same year, but seldom seen, so not many have played these. Never played any other reissues, like Indonesian, Chinese etc, so couldnt comment. In summary, no reissue I've ever played, feels, or sounds like an original, but apparently they're all crap!!

I've never heard so much opinionated crap in all my life. Interesting thread, and the OP is probably wondering where his original thread went. Interesting comments, amusing comments, and some of the most ill-informed comments i've ever read. Some comments also, that, reading behind the text, appear to be based around jealousy of never being able to have a vintage Fender, so will happily try and discredit all vintage Fenders as being crap. Nevertheless, I won't rise to that, as it doesnt warrant any further comment. Getting back to subject, and in response to some of the more sensible comments, and regarding other brands. This is my[i] opinion[/i], based on too much time spent looking into such things. If you want to buy a bass that will appreciate financially, and give you years of enjoyment, and playing, then a Fender is still the best way to tick those boxes, the market is evidence of this, which is all you need to look at, or listen to. The market is there for all to see, so opinions, are just that, opinions. Pre-EB Stingrays have been mentioned, and are certainly collectible, they will also appreciate every year, and most importantly, they are great playing instruments. Although, 5 years ago, these were around £1500, at the moment they are about 3-500 more, so a good percentage increase, but not a lot of monetery difference. For example, there's a lovely root beer '78 on ebay now, in the UK, for £1700, great buy. They won't make loads of dough though. If you go to a casino and put £50 on red, and it comes in, you make £50. If you put £1000 on the same red, you make £1000. Same percentage increase, but very different return on investment. If its an investment you're looking at, then the bigger, generally will make more, unless you drop it of course!! Vintage Alembics, great basses, great quality when they were made, and the Series 1's & 2's have been considered collectable for a number of years. The last few years however, has shown major faults that occur long term. I've been interested in these for years, and owned 2, great basses to play. 90% of examples you see now, have laminate issues, particularly on the neck. the multi-layering used, or adhesives, do not appear to stand the test of time. These examples have typically been around the £3k mark for the last 5 years, and have not been appreciating as well as many other brands. Collectors are now being wary of these, because of the quality issues. This has made mint examples rise in value, but I for one, wouldnt buy one anymore, because you could pay £3k for a Series 1, with no issues, only to keep it for 2 years, then it starts delaminating, as many others have experienced. Gibsons, not a favourite among bass collectors, the only 2 basses that really tick the boxes, are original T'Birds ('64-'66). These though are prone to neck breaks, a large percentage of examples out there already have repairs. Those that dont command high money, but again, i personally wouldnt take the chance of paying £6k+, then having a neck break in transit, many collectors feel the same, and these can be difficult to sell, becoming a more and more niche market, shame though, I love them. Early EB2's, particularly the '58-'59 banjo models. These are highly collectible, if in fine condition. They are an acquired taste though, and for every person in the market for one of these, there'll be 50 people willing to spend the same money on a Fender, so reduced market for re-sale should be a factor, if its also for investment purpose. No point buying a rare bass, if no-one wants it. Jaydee, Supernaturals have been hovering around the £1000 mark for 5 years now. I've seen 2 sold this year for less than that. In my opinion, these are the best value instruments out there, look cool, sound amazing, lovely to play, never heard of any defect issues, easy to sell-on. Investment?, not for me, same price for years, which, for a limited quantity bass of this standard has always been a mystery to me, great basses. Best value bass on the market place. Rickenbackers, again, these have been a similar price for a long time, marmite bass, say no more. Most people who want one, already have one. The rarer, more collectible or obscure basses are a very niche market, and can be a problem to shift. Lightshow 4005 anybody?, £20k+, how many buyers are there though for one of them, not many i bet. People said 10 years ago that the vintage fender bubble had burst, and the money had already been made. that was when stack knobs were less than £4k, I know, I sold one, a custom colour too. They are now £15k+++, if you can find one. This is simply not true, and the market is evidence of that. Whilst the 50's originals are out of range of many, people went for 60's examples, now these are out of range, folk are looking at 70's examples, as this is the most affordable way of dipping the toe in the vintage market. Some 70's J's are now fetching £3k. So people will look at other things, like Fullertons, or Dan Smith era, or even early JV's. Whatever new/old collectors revert to, the era's will all shift price wise accordingly. I've bought more basses in the last 5 years than ever, all of them have already appreciated, based on current asking prices. Investments should be considered on 5 years minimum, then have a look, Fenders have appreciated greater than all other brands, consistently every 5 years for the last 30 years, and theres no sign of that stopping. The most important thing, as i said in my first post on this thread though, is quality, make sure you invest in a good 'un. There are many good pre CBS instruments out there, far more than bad ones. 70's is probably the other way round. make sure you're happy with its authenticity, and playability, and that you're paying a fair price, then just [b]enjoy it.[/b]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348399931' post='1813106'] I don't think Fender cared too much about the wood at the time. It was JUST a material. The weight, mass, density wasn't a concern because there was no precedent at the time. OK so they could have been in a position to be discerning, for example, deliberately selecting old growth ash or alder or maple. But the level of awareness about what specifically makes a good bass wasn't around then. I think they were just taking whatever was available and, so long as it satisfied the expectations of the public at the time, it was good enough. [/quote] I think you should go do some reading, as you seem to have lots to say on a subject that you appear to have little knowledge on You also edit your responses every 5 minutes, I'm guessing, as an administrator, you do realise that people get emailed your original responses don't you? As you said in a previous quote, 80's collectors stuff seems to be your thing, judging by that comment, and your choice of bass, perhaps your level of knowledge lies elsewhere. Nothing personal, I'm just trying to save you from saying something else thats daft, quit while you're only slighty behind i'd say. Just do your homework, thats all I'm trying to say.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348394509' post='1812992'] You haven't done your research. [/quote] I think you're very wrong there, and probably picked on the wrong chap. Where's the basis for [i]your[/i] argument? Any guitar books will provide all the info you need about Johns statement, you may want to read some.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1348268090' post='1811839'] Will do, looks like a great project. I wish I was able to work with my hands on things like this, as would love to be able to create such an instrument, but have always been hopeless at anything manual. In fact, worse than hopeless. [/quote] Assembling, and a little relic work is not as difficult as it may appear. Practice definitely helps. This is my 4th, and almost certainly last project though, and hopefully I've saved the best 'til last.

[quote name='The Legoheads' timestamp='1348281390' post='1811913'] I now have it wired up and jacked in to the amp. I love the sounds it's putting out and switching and mixing the 2 pickups has some fantastic variations. It sounds nothing like my 4003 save for a common Ric growl. One of the main reasons I made this bass is that I'm a big Stone Roses fan and always loved Mani's bass and his playing. The real weird thing is, it sounds so out of place playing along with anything other than Rose's tunes. It blends really nicely with This is the One, Resurrection, Adored, etc. but when I try to play along to some non-Roses tracks it almost sounds like it's out of tune at times. I was checking the tuning and intonation every few minutes and scratching my head as it was spot on. Guess it's such a different unique sound...? Hopefully I'll post some video soon so you can see what I mean. [/quote] And what's wrong with only playing Roses songs?? I still play them at home more than anything else! I'm contemplating getting a 4005, one's turned up thats rather tempting, and this thread has revitalised my interest. It would be a big improvement to my somewhat ropey Mani-a-like. Your's is just stunning, impressed and jealous is an understatement.