Bilbo

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1152205' date='Mar 7 2011, 09:26 AM']Funny how no-one ever denigrates symphony orchestras as being a mere 'cover bands'.[/quote] I do

Marcus Roberts Time and Circumstance I found this on YouTube. If anyone wants to understand Jazz, listen to this version of Happy Birthday and keep singing it all the way through and particularly alongside the soloists. Bit traddy for my tastes but great fun nevertheless.

And his wife, Rusty.

I am so impressed (not)

Its like anything. If you have £2k to spend, you will want kit that costs £3K and if you had £10K you woudl want kit that costs £15K. THere is a great book I have called Guerilla Home Recording by Karl Coryatt that has great ideas about maxmising the potential of low budget kit. I think it is worth it as it adds to the creative process etc. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guerilla-Home-Recording-Studio-Leonard/dp/1423454464/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299411182&sr=1-1"]Guerilla Home Recording[/url]

For me, this debate is not about what is or is not possible but about what is or is nnot advisable. For anyone who has recently started the bass, I would argue that the theory/reading route to be the one that wastes less time in the long run. Everyone who comes to realise this always says the same thhing: 'I wish I had done this earlier'. It is not an instead of playing the tunes you like, it is as well as. If you learn a tune based aroudna dorianm minor and know that is what it is, every other tune that is based on that scale is an open book. I also hold the view that, if you can't articulate what you know, you probably don't know it as well as you think. This is not about whether it is possible to learn without theory. Of course it is. The issue is, is it the best way. I think it isn't and my experience and connections with both theorists and the rest bears this out. Remember, groove playing, rhythm and feel are all part of the theory too and not set apart from it.

[quote name='spinynorman' post='1149510' date='Mar 4 2011, 02:48 PM']By that logic, does John Williams (classical guitarist) have a harder job than Yehudi Menuhin? Or is it a pitch issue - Rostropovich gets it easier than Menuhin?[/quote] Yup.

Is it just me? I think (know?) its harder to play guitar and easier to play the bass. Now obviously the hardest bass parts are harder than the easiest guitar parts but, overall, the bass is easier. Its fundamentally one note at a time not several. Got to be easier. I have four guitars and one electric bass and one double. I can play the basses, I can make a credible go of gutiar parts but, of the two, the bass is by far the easier instrument to play, not just because I have played the bass more but because it [i]is[/i] easier. And less strings (normally)

Mine comes primarily from the wrist.

The introduction to Mark Levine's The Jazz Theory Book says 'A great jazz solo consists of 1% magic and 99% of stuff that is Explainable, Analyzable, Categorizable and Doable. This book is mostly about the 99% stuff'. I would (and do) argue that this apllies to all music, not just jazz solos, and that floundering around in the dark is not the fastest way to get from here to where you want to be. Theory is like a map that will save you time. If you make the same journey every day, you won't need it. If you got to lots of different places all of the time, you could still do without it but you would waste a lot of time up blind alleys, on inscruitable one way systems and looking for a car park For those whose careers are a sequence of covers gigs playing 'those' tunes, then leave the theory alone by all means. But if you are a player who wants to have a long and creative career with all the tools available to you, take a look at the stuff and see where it takes you. And learn to read music

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='1148307' date='Mar 3 2011, 01:12 PM']In the next breath he explained that when he solo'd he'd deliberately forget the theory and just play what he felt like playing.[/quote] That's how it works. We 'theorites' (have I invented a new word?) don't sit there thinking 'ooh, great, I can wack in that flattened fifth substitution there followed by an altered dominant'. We use our ears the same as anyone else but our ears are better informed because we spend hours running scales and arpeggios and chord sequences and subtitutions. Occasionally, I will solve a problem by intellectualising it in real time and I am almost always disappointed by the obviousness of the solution but, in the main, its your ear that guides you not your head. But the important lesson is that your ear is educated and informed not just intuitive. [quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='1148307' date='Mar 3 2011, 01:12 PM']Having theory won't automatically make you capable of musical expression, although it can make you a very good form of biological playback device.[/quote] No but it will massively improve your chances. Massively. And not having theory won't automatically make you capable either. And why the 'biological playback device' comment? There is an implied assumption that 'theorites' play with their heads and 'luddites (see what I did there)' play with their hearts. In fact, theorites play with their hearts and minds whilst those without technical knowledge are only able to use their hearts and minds . The only difference is the amount of information available to the informed mind vs the uninformed. The availability of theory is no guarantee of anything but I woudl argue it improves your odds. I know which camp I would want to be in.

Do yourself and the world a favour and just don't play it.

I have no problem with people who don't know, just with players who celebrate the fact and use the ignorance of others to justify their own ('my favourite musician doesn't know any theory so I don't need to' kind of thing). Just a small point: I don't think it is reasonable to say that bebop was defined after lots of the music that exemplifies it was written/recorded. I think its developments were conscious and came from a position of earned knowledge built upon exisitng knowledge. Its developments were consciously intellectual.

[quote name='silddx' post='1147311' date='Mar 2 2011, 04:22 PM']Smile away my friend. [/quote] I am genuinely happy for you. I think that there is nothing nicer than playing an instrument that gives you that kind of return. I guess I am lucky in that I find that in my 'off the shelf' set up. I guess its like trying to find your glasses and then realising they were on your head all the time

Hondo II Precision copy. Black. Lived in a musical desert and had a piece of junk guitar but noone to show me how to play it. But I could hear the bass lines and played the basslines on the lower strings of this half-arsed guitar thing until I started work at 17. It was the day I started work that I ordered the Hondo bass and a Carlsboro Cobra bass combo from a catalogue of some kind, can't remember which. Then got an Aria SB700 and a Sound City amp when I first joined a band which I soon upgraded to a Frunt amp and a Wal (1986).

I do smile at these 'tone as a holy grail' stories. I have never worked on my tone with this level of obsessiveness and have had three people this week (a bass player, saxophonist and a recording engineer) independently tell me my sound was great. Stock Wal with 10 year old Rotosound Solo Bass strings on it through Eden Metro. Just play the damn thing

I'm nearly in Essex, but not. Wilkommen!

[quote name='stewartmusic' post='1146743' date='Mar 2 2011, 08:43 AM']But this is not always the case, if you mean doubling the celli as playing the same notes as them. Although [b]in some earlier music in baroque or classical times when the bass would play the continuo it would most certainly double the celli [/b]but for more modern composers such as Mahler and Stravinsky the double bass was most certainly playing its own part.[/quote] I know it is not the case in later music but early on, when it was christened the double bass, it did

Hakim was astonishing with Weather Report. Catch this duel with Joe Zawinul!!! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLVG4Q8_Rqs"]Omar Hakim[/url]

Because it doubles the cellos in an orchestra an octave down.

Play against a metronome on 2 and 4 and get youself into 'the zone' listening to every minute string buzz, friction noise and little nicks and nocks that contribute to the formation of each note. You need to do this because, if you don't, it will come backa bnd bite you on the ar*e for the rest of your career. Endless repetition is the source of all advanced technique. Learn to love the simplicity of it.

Thsi was my first although this is NOT the transcription I did at the time but an up-to-date corrected version. I chose it because it was within the range of the bass and didnt' have anything too fast or difficult to execute on the bass. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48470&hl=song+for+strayhorn"]Song For Strayhorn[/url]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1143324' date='Feb 27 2011, 02:06 PM']i like the 3rd/6th progression if that's right. not sure what it's called like. but if you're in G, it would be G A# C# E G. i find it fits in at the end of a fill quite nicely. got that from the jaco lessons on youtube.[/quote] That's a diminished arpeggio (a series of minor thirds).

[quote name='jdstrings' post='1133006' date='Feb 19 2011, 01:55 AM']I hope all that is not too overwhelming and that some of it proves relevant to you![/quote] Really helpful, Jerome. I kinda knew that getting a set up would be helpful but I have been quoted anything up to £600 for all the different elements (inc strings, bridge etc) and just haven't got that kind of money available at the moment. I have a set of Evah Weich's on there so the strings are good quality. To be honest, the most positive part of your post was the 'After 14 months it's not entirely surprising that it can still be really hard work' bit! I have played both of Jake Newman's basses and found them like butter - much easier to play but they are worth between 3 and 6x what I paid for mine so I wasn't surprised I guess I just need to figure out how to get the bass looked at without having to sell a kidney.