jakenewmanbass

Love them!!

I do tons of one offs, I think this is for two reasons, I seem to have a pretty good rep amongst you lot here so people find me and want a lesson even if they are a really long way away (so I do 2 hr lessons once a month for a few people) but then I also don't mind doing them as and when folk feel like they need a kick up the arse, and I can do that in spades. The second reason is as Doddy says, there are a lot of guys that feel at the top of a particular tree when it comes to playing the songs they know for a band etc and come to people like me and Doddy to say 'what's the next step' well the next step is often far more work than they ever imagined because the difference between playing a dozen songs and being able to cover a depping gig e.g. reading in a function band , a session with parts (a proper studio session) a theatre dep or chair, a TV ad or radio Jingle, to compose a bass part on the spot for a singer songwriter session with or without parts, to sight read a cabaret pad for a visiting act or sit in a cruise ship band, or busk an entire jazz gig or even be expected to know a function set of standard pop stuff etc etc is COLOSSAL What's slightly amusing is that some folk look at you like you are from mars and can't compute the work that goes into being able to cover all those remits. On the other hand I've had loads of students that just want help improving and reaching their own goals, which is great fun. And everything in-between... Most experiences of meeting bass chatters for lessons has been really good, and having taught at Universities and colleges in the past I have had some really serious talent sitting in front of me a few times too. the main thing to remember as a teacher is that sometimes what you take for granted is gold to another so be patient and searching for what the student needs... if they feel like the learning is in their hands you're onto a winner... I don't have any regular weekly people at the mo, but I have a few that I will contact if I'm in their area, in the past I've had people come for years, and obviously at colleges it's weekly, I don't have a teaching job at the moment but I dep for Ernie McKone at the London Centre of Contemporary Music...

I always found Spiros fine for arco Pete, I had them on the bass I just sold, but I'm used to bowing more jazz orientated strings, which gives me hope of sounding ok on the more classically orientated I think for what you're doing they are fine, I will bring my bass to yours one time though and let you try the Silver Slaps, they have a lovely front to the sound and are really easy on the hands due to the tension.

And now we're on the subject, what are Innovation b140s? I've got silver slaps, I get by with arco but they can be difficult to grip on occasion

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1407920511' post='2525269'] Set of innovations b140 and goldflex is what I use. [url="http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/pirastro-goldflex-rosin.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=price_comparison&utm_content=224451&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmayfBRDo25CR9un4hvEBEiQAv9fBbWZ9JUoEJnhoiC6ks_4u-fGx-oIpB5OAVHSRR_RC8ksaAtdZ8P8HAQ"]http://www.ackermanm...C8ksaAtdZ8P8HAQ[/url] If you want any tips pm me. Prefer to help people who are interested in bass as opposed to trolling what I have to say. [/quote] Hey Floyd, I'm sorry to hear you feel trolled, is it here specifically? I can't for the life of me remember you saying anything that didn't make sense... As a fellow lover of DB keep contributing mate, your input has always been interesting to me!

I've played a few blinding mexican precisions... but now I can't see

They are both lovely players... and in my view beyond the need for comparison.

and thank you for the kind words Pete...

Nobody else got an thoughts on this? I'd love to know if anyone can work out a subdivision...

I have it as 17 quavers... so one interpretation is 17/8. That's the only downbeat I can feel, other than that I can't detect any other subdivisions, but I'm sure there are more odd meter knowledgeable fellas who might have an idea how it's divided. It has a quarter note feel across it that reverses if you count in four... so I end up counting in 8. The bridge is in 4/4 Edit... it's starting to feel like 2 bars of 7/8 followed by a bar of 3/8 but with a crotchet across it... so you could count it as 8 bars of 1/4 followed by a bar of 1/8 (which for the avoidance of doubt is a joke!!)

Oh yes!

What can I say to you King... it IS my experience (or has been) that players using tab are of an inferior standard, but it's just my experience so I take it as read that that does not include all tab users. I'm in the unusual position of having assessed many people's playing and I know a great player when I hear one. I just have not met many that have got great using tab, it's a mediocre system. (I have known plenty that started with tab and realised it's shortcomings when their study got serious) By far the most effective means of learning music is a full and proper understanding of the instrument and the genre in which it's played. I generally find that the most highly idiomatically authentic players are those that have a deep aural understanding, those folk will either be readers or they won't but they are certainly good musicians. From where I sit in the musical world I can see people of all abilities (way beyond my own btw) the readers will get the job done quickly (eg Marcus Miller is a great reader and knows why he needs to be) the ear players will likely do just as good a job just not quite so quickly. Now in my life so far the tab users I've encountered aren't even out of the blocks in that race, so I duly arrive at my conclusion, it says nothing about you or anyone else here, but what it does do is give me the right to say so, because it's my personal experience. edit: never my intention to be arrogant but I should let you know that I'm really not offended by what people think of me. So reading my own post back I can't for the life of me find why my own experience expressed in carefully considered level terms gives rise to such disquiet amongst the few people that have responded directly to me, I can only assume that they are not fully reading my words and just cherry picking the bits that give rise to their ire and flinging those bits back at me.... come on man read the whole sentiment.

back to square one... a difference of opinion is not shooting down, is it? I think part of the problem here is the medium, if this were a face to face conversation our intentions would be more explicit, I mean no one any harm, I'm just expressing a view, but because it's in text things get lost.... bit like tab (I'm sorry, I just could not help myself)

I've taught people in universities,colleges, schools and privately for 25 years, of all of those students (and there are hundreds) the ones who've used tab have generally had serious holes in their understanding of the instrument, leading me to surmise that there's a problem with the system. I've tried to explain why I think that is the case but the response has been an indignant 'well that doesn't apply to me' It's nice for those concerned that it doesn't apply to them but those thoughts don't change my experience.

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1405689106' post='2504366'] @ Jakenewmanbass I am very surprised that you suggest I am denying you the freedom to feel how you do about your choices. I cannot find that in any of my posts. You and I have different views on the usefulness of TABS and I've enjoyed the debate. Nowhere have I accused you of narrowness of thinking or stubbornness, and I have certainly not asserted that you should keep your views to yourself. "... if you want to cut it as a professional player then realise what is needed to reach that level. There may well be budding pro's reading these boards." My view would be that was is required to play at a professional level, is to play at a professional level. As long as you produce the goods, does it really matter the process you use to do so? Live and let live, say I. I think I'm done with this now. Steve [/quote] ok point fairly made, maybe denial of freedom is a strong term, what I should say is that I felt that in the spirit of discussion that I would be explicit in understanding that in some circumstances tab will work for some, so I duly acknowledged that. In return, I've had very little more than opposition and attempts at point scoring with no acknowledgement that I have a valid view (apart from Dad) I'm not overly concerned with that because I'm secure in my position, however the hoops that one is forced to jump through to bring a point out without someone taking that as an attack on 'their way' stifles discussion and makes the conversation more akin to drowning in treacle than a lively ideas led debate. So I guess in the real world I'd just give up on conversations with those here (yourself included) who show a more narrow outlook, but in a forum I'll keep banging on as I said because I think it worthwhile to have all views represented for any potential readers who might be interested in balance.

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1405684711' post='2504318'] Help is at hand! Bass Tabs for Git it here: [url="http://www.bigbasstabs.com/misc_bass_tabs/git_it_from_little_shop_of_horrors.html"]http://www.bigbassta...of_horrors.html[/url] Might save you a bit of time. Don't take the TAB as gospel though - you'll have to listen to the song as well to enable you to play it to the standard required. Still, that will ensure you get pretty familiar with the song. [/quote] Which beautifully demonstrates how woefully inadequate tab is to be able to do what is required on a professional gig, I have the score and in no way is the tab as representative of what is needed. The other thing dots allow for is for me to be more than a mere imitator by copping exactly how the original is played, I can read and interpret the chart making it 'excellent' (tongue firmly in cheek there) I completely get it that for certain arenas, tab works along with listening (as I said before which makes you require 2 disciplines) funny how despite pleading for a live and let live attitude you seem to decline to offer me the same freedom to feel the way I do about my choices. I do take the humour but I'm sticking very firmly to the notion that if you want to cut it as a professional player then realise what is needed to reach that level. There may well be budding pro's reading these boards.

I'm laughing to myself now because I'm sitting here practising sight reading as I have a theatre workshop for a west end production (all sight reading) and a production of little shop of horrors in the next couple of weeks, and I'm arguing the merits of my method here It's just a view fellas....

I think the main thrust here Steve is that you're using both aural and tab, which if it works for you is fine. My standpoint comes from having had many (mostly young) students over the years who achieved a level that does not befit the hours they've put in, had they used a more comprehensive method they'd have got further. Judgement is important here, I'm talking about playing music for recordings and live performances that are of a fairly demanding standard, It's really hard to say that without sounding high minded, but it's where I'm at so I have no choice but to assess from within my own world, which will involve a concert, a theatre show, a session in a very expensive studio... I'm merely reporting that tab will not suffice for the depth of understanding and standard of performance that is required for that world. All I've asked for is some understanding that that viewpoint is given some credence. It works for you, that's fine. I'm just saying that it won't work as well as more comprehensive methods in more pressured arenas.

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1405674391' post='2504164'] @Ambient - post no 42. Actually, there are TAB systems for lots of instruments that don't have frets. Here are 3 examples Recorder; [url="http://i40.tinypic.com/125nhid.jpg"]http://i40.tinypic.com/125nhid.jpg[/url] Harmonica: [url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jEfnezCBEVM/TxYxwx_xaYI/AAAAAAAABXM/dj-0L5PhaWU/s1600/photo-794279.jpg"]http://1.bp.blogspot...hoto-794279.jpg[/url] Piano: [url="http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/I1jnWz3bSrI/maxresdefault.jpg"]http://i1.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg[/url] It seems to me that such instrument-specific TAB systems can be useful to help somebody play that particular instrument. That's why I use bass TABs. Where they may be limited is when different instruments need to play together, and when players of those different instruments need some sort of common language to coordinate activities. Maybe that's when "dots" may have an advantage and maybe that's why Bilbo finds them useful in his orchestra pit, Ambient's tutor finds them useful for writing and composing for string and brass, and Ambient used them to send some music to an Oboist. All good stuff. Since I don't do any of those things, I'm more than happy to use TABs for the instrument I play. Horses for courses. Each to their own. Live and let live etc Steve [/quote] This... another view, with merit.

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405642913' post='2504044'] But now we go around in circles because you expressed your view in an open forum and you have become defensive[/quote] I have no need to defend my view as I'm happy for others to differ (just the 4th time I've said that now) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405642913' post='2504044']because others had the gall to express their view.[/quote] I've invited the views of others to differ and be happy for that to be the case several times in my posts [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405642913' post='2504044'] It looks like you went "Here's my view! Don't try to contradict it because I know I am right, I have had far more experience than you! So there!". Then, upon someone trying to explain why they hold the view that they do, you go "I don't care! I'm right, you're wrong! So shut up!". [/quote] This is the hilarious bit, wtf does 'it looks like you went' mean? What I said is what I feel and I've offered my view and said that others may vary and I'm more than happy for that to be the case, I'm grown up enough to express my view and not feel injured when someone disagrees, in fact I love the diversity of humanity that is derived from that position, so do me a favour read the lines, not what you imagine is between the lines. I have tried to present a balanced all encompassing outlook for learning here and dared to suggest that of the three methods on offer, my experience has shown TAB to be lacking, you can still disagree with that it's ok, but what's astonishing is that you make wild accusations about the way I present my views which is not backed up by what's down in black and white. [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405642913' post='2504044'] When it comes to points of view and opinions, you should practise what you preach. [/quote] I do, I really do!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1405644740' post='2504052'] Phew..! For a (too long...) moment there, I thought we were going to fall out..! More power to your elbow, squire, and congratulations on having a firm path to tread, whilst sharing your knowledge. The next cuppa is on me, next time you're passing through. [/quote]

Apology gracefully accepted Dad and thanks, it's nice to have a reasoned response. I am actually a fervent exponent of the aural tradition of learning, (I am an autodidact) reading came later for me with expedience at it's heart. My feelings about how music is performed when it's truly known by the player is a well established standpoint, well known amongst my colleagues (I'm known for learning the music, playing without the dots) The reason I'm inclined towards my view of tab is through teaching people that have dabbled and got a certain way into the learning journey but comparing that with the aural tradition and reading It's been my experience that there are some really fundamental elements missing when people use a method which only includes a minimum of information... I've always been left feeling that TAB offers shortcuts past important learning elements that leave the player with some holes that are essential to becoming a complete player (at this point it should be understood that I'm generally preparing students for a professional standard) so I'm very happy to see enthusiasts getting what they can from it, and I've intimated that in every post, but I feel it's only right that I get to offer my experiential observations, and I would hope that my track record would at least give some readers some pause for thought when deciding their learning methods. edit: for the record, at no point have I suggested there is only one true path, I would only seek to discuss the merits and pitfalls of a particular method

It's inherent and explicit in all my posts that each person is entitled to their own view, that you choose to ignore that to take umbrage at my view is a matter for you.