OldGit

[quote name='Rayman' post='239866' date='Jul 15 2008, 11:34 AM']Fixed. I had the amp out this morning and found the offending loose wire that was shorting out. One soldering iron and a roll of solder (no, not ALL of it) later, the amp is working perfectly, touch wood.[/quote] Phew .. best make sure you use a PCB and steer clear of mics at your gigs 'til you can get it checked out ..

or Mark Poptart at [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Speaker_and_Guitar_Leads.html"]Bass Direct cables page[/url]

[quote name='MananaMan' post='239403' date='Jul 14 2008, 06:45 PM']I think the main thrust of my point got lost t in a swathe of vitriol...[/quote] Ooops, sorry, no vitriol intended ... [quote]Its the section in bold that is, to my mind, the most important thing here. There are enough quality bands, even enough quality original bands (possibly...), to fill all the venues in the country every night. The reason they aren't booked is that most promoters seem to run about booking anything they can that looks and sounds like whatever's popular at the moment to cash in on current trends. This is because British people seem to be petrified of music they've not heard of before.[/quote] But as a booker you have to fill the venue enough times per week to make it pay or you won't be working there very long. You also need some kind of quality control or auditioning system to ensure you build a reputation for the venue. The other problem is the one raised above (a long way above, and not by me ) bands don't tend to think that marketing is their job. They think the promoter should be promoting the band and, presumably, dragging people in off the street. For any band the same techniques still work (as they did when the Beatles started): Be amazingly entertaining, grab everyone that comes to see you and make sure they know when and where you are playing their town next, get them involved in promoting your gigs and then do it all again next time to them and their mates .. ie build a following... [quote]I can't help but think that covers bands that play the pub and club circuit (I'm not doubting the value of covers bands for weddings / corporate do's - the right thing for the right place) are the live band equivalent of Walkabout - churning out lowest common denominator stuff that totally devalues the "traditional boozer" that is originals bands - some of them might well be slightly dingy and scary, but they all have their own charm. If these things didn't exist then the public would still hanker after live music, and they'd be happy to go and investigate whatever is out there.[/quote] ah yes: "And a minister said his vision of hell Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all And everyone stares at a great big screen Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens Australian soap, American rap Estuary English, baseball caps " There's room in pub music for covers and originals. It may take longer to get a big crowd to come and see your originals band but if you are good and entertaining (OG's cracked record time) you can build a following and compete with the people getting the better gigs. [quote]Or maybe I'm just an optimist.[/quote] Optimism is great, please keep being positive, and ... as a promoter, tell us what originals bands should be doing to fill a venue and compete with the alternative forms of entertainment .., big screens, bland lacklustre covers bands, etc No vitriol, I'm seriously asking for your recommendations from the other side of the fence, as it were.

Easy Rider

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='239272' date='Jul 14 2008, 04:32 PM']That'll be it [/quote] or the β-carotene

Got my LMK from Guitar Mania. They matched the cheapest web price I could find and still smiled as they sold it to me. 'ikkle Mark II is £499 listed [url="http://www.guitar-mania.com/markbass-little-mark-head-watt-p-294.html?osCsid=2401b911b5d0b70235ed4d4140c05d34"]Guitar Mania[/url] These guys do that too [url="http://www.soundsinternational.co.uk/"]http://www.soundsinternational.co.uk/[/url]

Semi-pro Vs Amateur: the difference is not about how much you get paid, it's about how well you do the job.

Originals Vs Covers - they are different markets and need to be treated differently. The 300 people packing the party band gig on a Friday and Saturday and bopping to Mustang Sally are not necessarily going to come out on a Tuesday to the same venue to watch a band playing originals they have never heard before, no matter how good they are (because, of course, they will have no idea how good they are unless someone tells them.) A covers band playing Mustang Sally or a tribute band is a safe option, they know what they will get, even if they have never heard of the band. For example if you see a poster for Goulburn playing 10 tracks from their latest CD "SOMAN" including "Liu Xia", "Kelt Capital Stakes" and , of course, the seminal "Eberhard Havekost" you have no idea if you are going to like it. The adventurous may be prepared to drag themselves out on a work night, shell out a fiver to get there, £2 to get in and £10 on beer for the night on the off chance that they may have a good time but most weekend audiences are not out to risk wasting an evening like that unless someone they know and trust raves on about this great band they have found and who you just have to see or you will be really missing out ... Of course the people (I nearly wrote "kids" because they will largely be younger) who will risk it will probably not want to hang about with the 30/40/50+ aged people bopping to Mustang Sally on the weekend ... So the covers bands etc are not stealing your audience for original bands. and the pubs and promoters aren't ripping you off, if anything it's other originals bands, and competition from the telly, DVD, PO3, Internet, Footie pubs, MTV etc that is the problem. [b]SpineyNorman Wrote: "only people you can really blame are the paying public, who want to go out on Friday and Saturday night and drink (and talk loudly) over a live band that's doing stuff they've heard before, so they don't really need to listen."[/b] Nope, it isn't the fault of the paying public who are choosing where to spend their money. If they don't come to see you, it's most certainly[b] YOUR [/b]fault and not theirs: you just are not entertaining enough to draw them away from the alternatives, or you are not marketing your band correctly. If you think the promoter/pub is paying you less than you are worth, just try putting your own gigs on and filling them with paying, drinking punters; pay for the venue hire, bar staff, security, PA, lights, licences, promotion, bands, etc etc ..

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='238838' date='Jul 13 2008, 11:13 PM']To the OP - some people play in bands because it's a social event. All they ask for in return is a few quid to cover petrol and beer. I know some bands like this who are bloody good at it, too.[/quote] In our market - Barn Dances for all sorts of events - there are bands going out for free, beer and tabs money, through to fat agency fees. We get agents offering us £1000 so we know they are charging £1500, or whatever, to the punter .... We tell the potential punter they can find a cheaper outfit, and how to do that, if they can't afford us. You can get a fab band for a party for £100 because those people would rather play for beer and tabs money than sit in watching the hex-factor. As WOT says, it's a social event and some of the players would be out in a session in some pub and paying for teh privilege.. I play for free sometimes too, I even shell out to drive 200 miles to play for free if the craic or cause is right 'cos I love playing. Originals, covers, jam sessions, guest spots, whatever The fees I earn from the band (after tax and expenses) just off set the costs of doing charity and free gigs and it's not my main source of income.

[quote name='markytbass' post='238837' date='Jul 13 2008, 11:13 PM']The thing that amazes me is that one venue charges £13 to get in then 2 weeks later you can see the same band in the same town for £5.[/quote] It's band's responsibility to avoid that happening. If you want to bring a whole load of mates/followers to an "important" gig to impress a booker, agent, whatever, and that gig charges money on the door then manage things so that you don't play the same town for a few weeks either side of that gig, and certainly not for free.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='238760' date='Jul 13 2008, 09:02 PM']Hmm, I happen to have one of those kicking around as well... ...top tip! Cheers. [/quote] Blige I really must spellcheck

MananaMan said "In response to the (somewhat patronising, if you'll beg my pardon) suggestion of running the WMCs for 2 years minimum..." I really must remember to add a winking smiley when I'm being tongue in cheek Oh and I'm known for being patronising You found out how to do it and you now do a show - your way. I bet you are confident on stage, play well, relate to your audience and work hard to build a following. I was replying to the OP who is in a totally different place.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='233415' date='Jul 6 2008, 12:21 AM']Yes. And I did a search for the AC adapter and guess how many etailer that sell the wireless sell the AC to go with it?[/quote] Can't you just use a switchable voltage one from Maplins?

CrazyKiwi said "I really wished I had a cover for the 2x12 cab" IKEA big blue bag, cut off teh handles, cut a hole or tow for teh cab handles.. bit of gaffa, two layers of blue bag + bubblewrap sandwhich if you are fussy .. works a treat for about a quid

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='238367' date='Jul 13 2008, 10:37 AM']Let me get this straight OG, this other service you mention is it "near marriage guidance" or "copping a feel". As if it is the latter, I have some experience in this field and would be willing to help out too. I am north of the border but would be willing to travel if you operation was limited to the west country. [/quote] ha ha I'm sure you local NHS fake boobs store could use your help

[quote name='umph' post='238270' date='Jul 12 2008, 11:54 PM']smoke lots of pot everybody move to canada right now?[/quote] Will that get me out of going to 'nam? (Chippen'nam)

[quote name='BOD2' post='238273' date='Jul 13 2008, 12:07 AM']Was your gear and the mixer plugged into the same wall socket ? If not then you can sometimes have problems if the different wall sockets are on different mains circuits. Always worth trying the ground lift switch, although it often will not help.[/quote] Yes everything runs through our PCB and one socket. Ground lift: OK I'll try it Thursday at the next gig.

[quote name='OldGit' post='236927' date='Jul 10 2008, 10:11 PM']Oh dear .. Got a gig in a tent tomorrow .. last time we played in a tent they'd borrowed a few garden gazebo things for the band to cower under at the end of the real marquee .. of course it was teaming down .. We spent the first setup hour gaffa taping the seams and creating gutters to stay dry, and alive .... Weather forecast for tomorrow is "wet wet wet" Best take my wellies I think ..[/quote] Turned out fine, weather and gig. A celebration of surviving breast cancer in diagnosed in pregnancy, and teh rather nasty treatment. "Go on, have a feel, they feel really real" she said .. They did, There's a first. I do know her a little from several years ago when I helped her not marry the wrong bloke ..(another Old Gt service) So loads of fun once we'd rebuild the stage (hah!) into a barely big enough drum riser. Lots of cowboys and Indians so we played all our American traditional tunes and dances whilst they rode the electro/pnematic bucking bull helpfully positioned on the dance floor ... They were up for the set dances too, mostly ... We were also booked for 1.5 hours of DJ stuff at the end as well, for more money, natch. Actually the punter gave me £75 too much in the envelope at the start of the evening and was very chuffed when I gave it back to her. So chuffed she gave us a small bonus and bought the drinks Everyone happy. Bass gear report: Over the last few weeks I've installed my head, wireless and all their cables into a rackbag and also wired up all my pedals as a lump in an attempt to speed up my setup and break down as I always take longer than everyone, especially as I have to do the schmoozing of the punters and any booking enquiries we get at gigs ... Well it works well .. The rackbag looks a bit big atop the relatively narrow Bergantino AE12's but with the help of an IKEA luggage strap everything was stable. The pedal setup was fast and all worked too. Phew. I'll be very happy when all the changes I've been doing settle down .. My Markbass LMK head was humming in the PA through the line out, even when the head's power was off. I forgot about the ground lift switch and so didn't try that. I hope that is the answer. The noise from the bucking bull covered the hum last night but we may not have one of those at the posh wedding on Thursday Bass sound was great as ever and easily audible all over without being overly loud. The audience enjoyed the bass teasers game we play .. and we got requests for Rawhide, Running Bear (too cold!), Stand by your man, oh and These Boots on teh EUB for all the Daisy Dukes in the audience, sadly not in the shorts.. actually in general that was probably a good thing. The woman in sheepskin chaps was a distraction though Back to wedding mode on Thursday, still fun but in a different way ...

Oh and you may have been lurking for a while before joining and seen this thread but if you want to really go into the orginals vs covers you may like to spend a few weeks reading these marathons: Function band vs integrity ramblings, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20617&hl=covers"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...7&hl=covers[/url] Does playing covers sap your imagination and playing [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21757&hl=covers"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...7&hl=covers[/url]

[quote name='MananaMan' post='238158' date='Jul 12 2008, 07:55 PM']+1 to that Jase, both on the original and covers scene there are far too many utter crap bands out there clogging up promoter's time and gig schedules. Its unfortunate that quality is such a subjective thing... I'd also argue (being a staunch supporter of original live music) that covers bands do more harm to original music than crap bands ever could. I know I'm probably going to insult most people on this board at this point, so let me add a disclaimer : In no way do I object to people playing music for a living (whatever music that may be), nor do I doubt the musical ability or creative talent of anybody playing in a cover / tribute act. I also understand that there is a great desire for such acts in the UK today, so i do not blame anyone for pursuing this lucrative avenue. Having said that, I personally find it sickening to the pit of my stomach that bands are going out and playing venues that, in days gone past, would normally offer original acts more financially viable places to play using hardly any imagination to trundle out a set of other people's music. £150 for a gig is devaluing live music? Jesus! The last tour I played took in 8 gigs in 9 days, I think we got paid something like £250 TOTAL for the full run. That was with 5 of us travelling around the country in a diesel-hungry van. I think we broke even on diesel, just, and that was the most financially successful run we've done in over three years of touring. I think its just such a safe and easy way of playing music for a living, you've got the entire history of music to pick a cracking set from, and the benefit of having everyone know your songs the second you hit the first chord. If anything, I think it should be the other way round, with the original acts being paid a lot more than the cover bands that really don't have that much work to do to make an entertaining evening for the crowd. Not that I think its easy to pick a covers set, just its a lot easier to do so when you don't have to come up with all the material yourself. It just plays on the trend that's being going on for years now of re-hashing past glories rather than investigating new talent - when you see every band from 1999 backwards that even had the slightest of hits going back out on tour to scrape the barrel of their small chart success. Bands such as OPM (charted in the late 90's with the truly awful single "Heaven is a Half Pipe" going out at 400-600 quid a night... WTF??? Overall its a cultural thing here in Britain where people aren't remotely interested in a band unless they've got songs they know - its a fear of change and newness, but is certainly something that's perpetuated by the relatively cheap and easy availability of bands all to happy to cash in on this cultural eddy that Britain is currently stuck in. OK, rant over. Once again, this is all just personal opinion, so take what I've said with a pinch of salt - I am both a bitter originals player and a cynically twisted live music promoter that refuses to book cover bands on the general principles outlined above. Some discussion on the relative merits of playing covers / tribute stuff is probably needed to reassure my miserable soul, and also if anyone can honestly justify it morally I'd be interested to hear your points of view! Right, bring on the flame... :ph34r:[/quote] Hi MananaMan and welcome to Basschat Originals bands that do the work will do as well as a covers or trib band (in a pub / recognise originals venue, not a function, obviously) It's harder but then if you wanted to just play excellent music to enthusiastic audiences and get paid well you'd just play covers like the majority. There are much bigger potential audiences for covers and tribute bands. They are not really your audience so you are not competing directly. It's really hard to play originals to a cold crowd and always has been. IMHO what makes a band stand out and get a following is the show. If people can't instantly get enjoyment from the tunes (because they don't know them) then you have to compensate with a great show. Do that and build a following and at least some of your audience will become familiar with the material. Add an overlay of heavy marketing and all the extra stuff originals bands do (think Busted/McFly doing schools, Kaisers and that generation of guitar bands having street teams, supports for big bands coming to town, making news for local papers, local TV giving away Cd's, downloads, etc etc etc) and you may do OK. Most originals bands I see play fairly average and derived material yet seem to expect the audience to just instinctly know how great they are and to instantly afford them the respect they think they deserve. There's no stage act and there's no big effort to entertain and no one coaching them with honesty .. shoe gazers anyone? I've got an idea... Anyone wishing to play in an originals band should not be allowed to moan and whinge about the state of the nation, covers bands taking all the good/well attended /well paid gig nights in good venues, functions, money etc until they have done the training programme. This would consist of playing covers only for 2 years in working men's clubs. Only after achieving A grades in Entertainment and "Song quality differentiation" and "Objective common sense" would they be allowed out to assault the general public with their original material and stage show. That would cut the crap out of the originals band circuit. As Frank Sinatra sang in his cover of New York New York, "if you can make it in WMC's you can make it anywhere"

Hi had an odd one at the gig last night. Markbass LMK, into Yamaha mixer amp. My line out was creating a low hum in the PA ast night, even when powered off. We checked cables, mains earths etc .. In the end we just played with it there as the row from the mechanical bull on the dance floor (don't ask) covered the sound up .. Then on the way home I remembered the LMK has a ground lift .. Do you think that may have helped?

Well I've spouted long and often on this subject on this forum as it comes up often because bands think their talent should be paid for and have no idea how real world economics work. It matters no one jot how many people are in your band. The ONLY thing that matters is how much clear profit the bar makes after paying the costs of the evening. The six piece is probably on his case 'cos you get £50 per man and they'd like £50 per man too .. His budget allows for £150 for entertainment. You choose if you want to play there or not. So ...... to fix this you have to change the balance of power. You have to have landlords asking you to play their pub. In simple terms you have to pull a big crowd. Nothing else does the trick. Nothing else will get you booked at a decent rate, whatever you consider that to be. If you don't promote you band as hard as you can - papers, posters, word of mouth, flyers, street team, website, myspace, facebook, mailing list and, most importantly, a brilliantly entertaining show when you play - you are destined to always play wet floor toilets for crap money, if you can get gigs at all. It's easy to move up the scale, if you are entertaining and put the promotion work in. It's also easy to blame the bar managers when the reason you don't get paid well is because you don't pull the punters. That, after all, is why bars have live music.

If you want to earn money from playing don't play pubs or clubs. Stick to functions, do a brilliant show every time and you too can join us well paid function players. Simple really.

[quote name='beerdragon' post='233421' date='Jul 6 2008, 12:49 AM']Thanks, i've been looking. but i'm buggered if i can find the original. i'll keep on googling.[/quote] Here you go

Oh dear .. Got a gig in a tent tomorrow .. last time we played in a tent they'd borrowed a few gardern gazebo things for the band to cower under at the end of the real marquee .. of course it was teaming down .. We spent the first setup hour gaffa taping the seams and creating gutters to stay dry, and alive .... Weather forcast for tomorrow is "wet wet wet" Best take my wellies I think ..