skej21

[quote name='TimR' post='989729' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:30 PM']do you want to be on a course where people are being taught what a quarter note is during their first lesson?[/quote] Unless I was studying in America, I'd hope it was called a crochet

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989716' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:17 PM']I have no grades at all nor can I read music (the same for many musicians if we are still allowed to call ourselves that?) and recently spent an evening with a very fine classical player who came to a blues jam with me a couple of years ago and said he wished he could do that,I thought he was taking the piss at first but he wasnt and he got me to go and show him the basics of the 12 bar and a few simple licks to get him started. I was amazed at what he could play if it was in front of him and literally nothing without! It was like some kind of comedy sketch. You cant teach rock its not possible ,Look at cold play and all that stuff,Middle class mushy rockers cant do a full on Metallica thing,They think they can and I have played with some top notch drummers that read symbols and all sorts of stuff but when it comes to the final rock out at the end,Nothing.....its not on the page.[/quote] Totally agree. That's why I urge my students to master as many areas as possible. There's a preconception that classical musicians can only read, and pop musicians can only busk, but as musicians we should master at LEAST both of these skills. I hate the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none", or "one trick pony"... Musicians shouldn't happily accept such stereotypes and should aspire (and be encouraged to aspire by their tutors) to master a range of fundamental skills, such as playing by ear/feel, reading, music theory and composition.

[quote name='risingson' post='989701' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:57 PM']I base it on long term experience playing with people that claim to be proficient under the guise of graded examinations. I studied to Grade 5 theory as I had to to go on and study music in Liverpool, but I only took the exam because I had to really. It's seen as an essential thing to have, but this I also believe was more to do with filtering out those with and without basic theoretical knowledge from my particular course (the wrong way to do it IMO).[/quote] To be fair, theory is like every other aspect of music. Some people put in the effort, practice and time and it underpins their practical knowledge and some people think of it as a hoop to jump through. Personally, I think theory is hugely important in making sure you have a solid understanding of your function within an ensemble, and more importantly, the musical impact your part has within a piece/composition. This maybe a personal view and down to my extensive theoretical study (Grade 8 [Distinction] and LLCM) I think theory is important, because every time I do anything theory based, I think about how it would be if I was playing it, whereas a lot of people think of music theory solely as an exercise on paper.

[quote name='sambassman' post='989667' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:22 PM']LCM dont accept anyone under a grade 8 standard. now in my opinion thats quite a high standard of playing. it is also a conservitoir which are EXTREAMLY hard to get into. it isnt one of the most repatable music institutes in the country for nothing. . .[/quote] From what I remember this is incorrect. A lot of people from my college studied at LCM and the entry requirements were simply based on passing a basic audition (which one of my friends did quite badly with, messed up the sightreading and failed the grade 5 standard theory test but still "passed" the audition) and then once the audition was passed, prospective students simply had to get 3 Cs at A-Level (or BTEC - Merit, Merit, Merit) to be allowed onto the course. Pretty easy requirements to meet in my opinion.

This has to be in there.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='988509' date='Oct 14 2010, 10:07 PM']I've said all I'm going to say on the issue, the way you come across is very poor on the evidence of these couple of threads, my feeling is that if you carry that kind of prejudice onto the professional bandstand it won't be very long before you have a limited diary.[/quote] MASSIVE plus 1 Your inexperience as a working musician has shown through here, and I'm sure that such an unprofessional approach in an environment/forum that not only has a tight-knit community of bass players, but also bass players who have a large network of other musicians/instrumentalists will come back to haunt you. Such a needless, moronic thread to start.

Can I point out that there is a difference between the University of Leeds and Leeds College of Music. They are in no way related, so maybe think/check your facts.. You have also made the mistake of judging these musicians on the reputation of an academic institute, which is just ignorant, because any rational musician would know that ANY player can slack off, be lazy and/or not practice, regardless of who they study with/where they study.

You appear to have stumbled across a problem that a lot of people have when auditioning for bands. These guys had a sequenced bass part, with a limited number of notes and had a clear idea of what they expected from the bass part (and therefore you), which was clearly highlighted in the way they worked/recorded/viewed the bass part. If you were unhappy from the start and wanted to change it, that in itself tells you that it's probably not the band for you. They probably told you what you wanted to hear to get you to the audition, thinking that (like a desperate other half) they could "change" you to be the bassist that they wanted. This then leaves you with the dilemma of "do I act professionally and play what they want/expect, but take a back seat" or "tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine"? Really, you as a musician should have noticed the incompatibility from the start really. You know the kind of player you are, and should therefore be able to judge whether or not you are suited to a band or are willing to compromise. I will say one thing though. Are you limiting your musical opportunities by being unwilling to work outside your comfort zone? Maybe try shaping your playing to fit a band rather than finding a band to fit you. Working outside your comfort zone might push you and improve you, and you never know, you might actually ENJOY being a musical chameleon!

[quote name='Wolverinebass' post='968527' date='Sep 26 2010, 04:37 PM']Whilst I am someone who has a problem with authority per se, I will never, ever be dictated to in how I play. I'll have a rational conversation about it, but I won't be told "you [b]have[/b][u][/u] to play this...." Er, no. If I wouldn't do that to anyone else, [u][b]why should I take it?[/b][/u] Anyway, I'm wondering what other people's thoughts are on this.[/quote] If you were a reading musician, you wouldn't rip up the score and compain that you weren't going to be dictated too, would you? Why be any different when you've auditioned to be in someone else's band? I could understand you being protective over your parts if it was your band and your music, but if you've joined a band to fill a void, you should play what the songwriter/leader asks you too (maybe with the addition of a limited number of slight stylistic improvements) You should take it because being in another person's band isn't all about you. Being professional in your approach to bass is more about fitting into the band and the collective vision (or the vision of the band leader/creator) than trying to show everyone how good you are individually. You don't have to play hundreds of notes and flashy OTT slap riffs to write a good bass line, as exemplified by this (only using 4 notes in total throughout!) P.S. As for Guy Berryman, I happen to think that his bass lines are perfect for the music he plays (for example, 'Trouble' wouldn't be the same without the signature bass part).

[quote name='chris_b' post='968400' date='Sep 26 2010, 02:33 PM']If by that you mean that your hearing will recover to the level it was, you are wrong! Your hearing will be damaged. Mostly the damage is slight and you won't notice the little by little loss until it is too late. Please understand that no hearing damage is reversible.[/quote] Oh, misunderstanding. You are right, you will retain slight hearing damage, that over time will build and result in hearing problems. What I meant is, you won't gradually strike off each of the individual frequencies in your hearing range one at a time, like some sort of list, which is what most people think. I totally agree that people be careful and should also add a BIG + 1 for ALWAYS using in-ear monitors or ear plugs to protect your hearing. Essential!

Thought I would offer a bit of reassurance. It's actually a HUGE myth that the frequency you hear ringing in your ears vanishes from the spectrum of frequencies that you can hear. What is actually happening, is that the hairs in your inner ear (that react to sound waves and help to work out frequencies before converting it to a signal and sending it to your brain) are knocked flat by the power of the air/sound waves and causes that flat ringing frequency, which is that constantly sent to your brain. The hairs will take a little while to recover, but will soon stand back upright and start functioning properly again *edit* but any hearing damage caused as a result of not protecting your ears will be retained!

I got the '57 Classic Series P Bass. Put some flats on it and it rocks the hell out of everything. Just incredible (so much so that it converted my friend who know wants one, despite the fact that he HATES P basses and flats ) Seriously... just buy one. 99% likely that you won't regret it, and if you do, you'll soon shift it because they are GREAT basses!

Slightly unrelated, but I tried DR Black Beauties a few years ago and they went dead VERY quickly. Is this a common problem with DR strings, or did I just get a bad set?

Pretty poor excuse of a poll really. There is absolutely NO way that Cliff Burton should be ahead of Jaco, and the same goes for Flea beating Wooten AND Jamerson.

[quote name='xgsjx' post='966517' date='Sep 24 2010, 11:14 AM']Incedently I've never known Db, D#, Gb, G# or A# to be in any scales other than in humour situations.[/quote] This is a statement I get from pupils quite often, and it usually means that they rely too heavily on joining up the standard scale "shapes" rather than having a solid knowledge of the notes on the neck. It also usually means the don't read music very often/well and they don't understand musically what they are doing, but have instead discovered shapes and patterns that produce a stereotypcially suitable bass line or that they are comfortable improvising with. An old tutor of mine used to encourage developing theory knowledge by sayin "You need to know the box, to think outside the box"... If you understand theory and don't just rely upon musical cliches and stylistic pastiche when playing by ear, you can start to be an innovative player. The main problem that a lack of theory knowledge uncovers is a lack of musical empathy. When students try to learn another piece (such as a Donna Lee, for example) they are happy learning the shapes and copying a piece note for note, but if I ask them to start adapting it or explaining the musical devices used by the original composers, they often struggle because they don't understand what the composer has done. If you were an artist, you could make a basic living drawing Mickey Mouse and it could be fun too, but you would never push the boundaries of art, and that can also be said within music.

[quote name='mart' post='965461' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:01 PM']I've got this songbook for a band who are known for changing key signatures a lot in their songs. And in one of the songs, part way through, the book changes key from Db major to C# major. Yes, from Db to C#, which most of us mere mortals would tend to think of as the same key. So what's going on there: was that just the transcriber losing the plot, or is their some subtle point I'm missing?[/quote] This often happens when composers/arrangers try to be smart arses As a reading bassist/musician, I would much prefer Db major throughout.

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='964832' date='Sep 22 2010, 07:51 PM']Has anyone observed as I have, certain conventions in rock and pop band settings for always referring to sharp or flat notes by a particular name, whether or not musically correct? For example C# is always called C# even when in a key where it should be Db. The same goes for F#, Bb (never, ever heard it called A#), and Eb. G#/Ab seem to be interchangable.[/quote] It's because most people don't understand theory at all. The easiest way to think about it is to make sure that the letters always follow each other, and if you use a sharp or flat, keep it going. For example, a pupil came to me for lessons and claimed he knew his key sigs, but thought that Eb major had Eb, F, G, G#, Bb, C, and D. When you write it down, it's obviously wrong because you have two G notes and no A note, and also a mix of sharps and flats. You also have to take into account that some keys are easier to think about in flats/sharps. For example, Db major (only 5 flats) has exactly the same notes as C#, except C# major has 7 sharps, so in written music it is difficult to read and difficult to think about. The exercise I use with students to make sure they understand it is pretty simple. Make them play a one octave major scale, whilst speaking/singing the name of each note aloud, moving up through every key in order, starting on C. As in; C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C and then descending, C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C before moving up a semitone to Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C asc and desc - then E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# and so on, through all of the keys I've found this not only helps with learning key signatures, but also helps them to understand all of the NOTES on the neck, rather than just shapes/patterns, which helps a lot with music reading and advanced improvisation.

[quote name='RichardH' post='952122' date='Sep 10 2010, 06:28 PM']Oh come on - the treble clef looks much more like an ampersand than a bass clef would. It's all music at the end of the day.[/quote] Yeah, but most of the time (as a bassist) when I see the treble clef, I'm instantly filled with DREAD! Usually means whoever notated the music is an idiot or a guitardist (or worse, SINGER ) will appear within a matter seconds. Booooo.

Have you ever been before? If so, is it any good? I might have a look along. It might be nice to spend a while checking out some nice guitars and I need some new leads/cables/other bits and bobs.

This, just because of the treble clef!!

[quote name='birdy' post='952074' date='Sep 10 2010, 05:48 PM']Although in the main I would agree with this I would also add that all the pro players that I know are *really* good and have obviously put the hours in.[/quote] And while I agree with both, sometimes it doesn't matter how good YOU are, because it's other people that often let you down, cause problems or stress you out!

The white looks awesome! Especially on the headstock where it's part white and part black + 1 for the "leave it white" idea.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='951568' date='Sep 10 2010, 10:09 AM']I will get it ordred when the cash starts flowing again..... thanks for the tip off (I had seen this book before and was interested but got sidetracked).[/quote] No problem. It might be easier to get it from the musicroom link above. I think it's a really good resource, mainly because it's musical. I find my bass students really love it too, because it's really intuitive and there's a lot of variety

[quote name='Bilbo' post='951537' date='Sep 10 2010, 09:49 AM']Great!! There is a used version of Patitucci's Etudes on Amazon Marketplace for £110. Back to the Cello Suites!! [/quote] You could just buy it from that link I posted, for £13

I haven't had time to read the full thread, and therefore don't know if this is mentioned already, but this book is great for reading practice (and extending musical vocabulary!) because it's written by one of our own, John Patitucci! It is written specifically for Electric & Acoustic Bass and features scales as well as 60 melodic etudes. The link below also shows a sample of the very first page of the etudes section. [url="http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Melodic-Etudes/5841170"]http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Mel...-Etudes/5841170[/url] Have a look, I think it's a great resource and I'm someone will find it useful