skej21

I got the '57 Classic Series P Bass. Put some flats on it and it rocks the hell out of everything. Just incredible (so much so that it converted my friend who know wants one, despite the fact that he HATES P basses and flats ) Seriously... just buy one. 99% likely that you won't regret it, and if you do, you'll soon shift it because they are GREAT basses!

Slightly unrelated, but I tried DR Black Beauties a few years ago and they went dead VERY quickly. Is this a common problem with DR strings, or did I just get a bad set?

Pretty poor excuse of a poll really. There is absolutely NO way that Cliff Burton should be ahead of Jaco, and the same goes for Flea beating Wooten AND Jamerson.

[quote name='xgsjx' post='966517' date='Sep 24 2010, 11:14 AM']Incedently I've never known Db, D#, Gb, G# or A# to be in any scales other than in humour situations.[/quote] This is a statement I get from pupils quite often, and it usually means that they rely too heavily on joining up the standard scale "shapes" rather than having a solid knowledge of the notes on the neck. It also usually means the don't read music very often/well and they don't understand musically what they are doing, but have instead discovered shapes and patterns that produce a stereotypcially suitable bass line or that they are comfortable improvising with. An old tutor of mine used to encourage developing theory knowledge by sayin "You need to know the box, to think outside the box"... If you understand theory and don't just rely upon musical cliches and stylistic pastiche when playing by ear, you can start to be an innovative player. The main problem that a lack of theory knowledge uncovers is a lack of musical empathy. When students try to learn another piece (such as a Donna Lee, for example) they are happy learning the shapes and copying a piece note for note, but if I ask them to start adapting it or explaining the musical devices used by the original composers, they often struggle because they don't understand what the composer has done. If you were an artist, you could make a basic living drawing Mickey Mouse and it could be fun too, but you would never push the boundaries of art, and that can also be said within music.

[quote name='mart' post='965461' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:01 PM']I've got this songbook for a band who are known for changing key signatures a lot in their songs. And in one of the songs, part way through, the book changes key from Db major to C# major. Yes, from Db to C#, which most of us mere mortals would tend to think of as the same key. So what's going on there: was that just the transcriber losing the plot, or is their some subtle point I'm missing?[/quote] This often happens when composers/arrangers try to be smart arses As a reading bassist/musician, I would much prefer Db major throughout.

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='964832' date='Sep 22 2010, 07:51 PM']Has anyone observed as I have, certain conventions in rock and pop band settings for always referring to sharp or flat notes by a particular name, whether or not musically correct? For example C# is always called C# even when in a key where it should be Db. The same goes for F#, Bb (never, ever heard it called A#), and Eb. G#/Ab seem to be interchangable.[/quote] It's because most people don't understand theory at all. The easiest way to think about it is to make sure that the letters always follow each other, and if you use a sharp or flat, keep it going. For example, a pupil came to me for lessons and claimed he knew his key sigs, but thought that Eb major had Eb, F, G, G#, Bb, C, and D. When you write it down, it's obviously wrong because you have two G notes and no A note, and also a mix of sharps and flats. You also have to take into account that some keys are easier to think about in flats/sharps. For example, Db major (only 5 flats) has exactly the same notes as C#, except C# major has 7 sharps, so in written music it is difficult to read and difficult to think about. The exercise I use with students to make sure they understand it is pretty simple. Make them play a one octave major scale, whilst speaking/singing the name of each note aloud, moving up through every key in order, starting on C. As in; C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C and then descending, C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C before moving up a semitone to Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C asc and desc - then E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# and so on, through all of the keys I've found this not only helps with learning key signatures, but also helps them to understand all of the NOTES on the neck, rather than just shapes/patterns, which helps a lot with music reading and advanced improvisation.

[quote name='RichardH' post='952122' date='Sep 10 2010, 06:28 PM']Oh come on - the treble clef looks much more like an ampersand than a bass clef would. It's all music at the end of the day.[/quote] Yeah, but most of the time (as a bassist) when I see the treble clef, I'm instantly filled with DREAD! Usually means whoever notated the music is an idiot or a guitardist (or worse, SINGER ) will appear within a matter seconds. Booooo.

Have you ever been before? If so, is it any good? I might have a look along. It might be nice to spend a while checking out some nice guitars and I need some new leads/cables/other bits and bobs.

This, just because of the treble clef!!

[quote name='birdy' post='952074' date='Sep 10 2010, 05:48 PM']Although in the main I would agree with this I would also add that all the pro players that I know are *really* good and have obviously put the hours in.[/quote] And while I agree with both, sometimes it doesn't matter how good YOU are, because it's other people that often let you down, cause problems or stress you out!

The white looks awesome! Especially on the headstock where it's part white and part black + 1 for the "leave it white" idea.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='951568' date='Sep 10 2010, 10:09 AM']I will get it ordred when the cash starts flowing again..... thanks for the tip off (I had seen this book before and was interested but got sidetracked).[/quote] No problem. It might be easier to get it from the musicroom link above. I think it's a really good resource, mainly because it's musical. I find my bass students really love it too, because it's really intuitive and there's a lot of variety

[quote name='Bilbo' post='951537' date='Sep 10 2010, 09:49 AM']Great!! There is a used version of Patitucci's Etudes on Amazon Marketplace for £110. Back to the Cello Suites!! [/quote] You could just buy it from that link I posted, for £13

I haven't had time to read the full thread, and therefore don't know if this is mentioned already, but this book is great for reading practice (and extending musical vocabulary!) because it's written by one of our own, John Patitucci! It is written specifically for Electric & Acoustic Bass and features scales as well as 60 melodic etudes. The link below also shows a sample of the very first page of the etudes section. [url="http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Melodic-Etudes/5841170"]http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/60-Mel...-Etudes/5841170[/url] Have a look, I think it's a great resource and I'm someone will find it useful

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='950805' date='Sep 9 2010, 04:43 PM']Couldn't agree more! The amount of session gigs were i've been given friggin PVG or piano parts or parts written in treble clef is unreal. This is for proper gigs aswell playing theatres like manchester opera house and venues of the like. You do have to adjust. Luckily for me i'm arrogant and single minded and do what i want including the dreaded improvisation, but use my skills and experience to fuse it so it fits. (apart from on one occasion where i kept slipping the welcome to the jungle riff into a song). [/quote] Haha, yeah. It's well annoying. The gig in question (from me) was actually a full stage production of 'Dream Girls' that was being put on by a bunch of CLOWNS lol. The MD was a hero though and just let me do whatever. I'm glad I'm not the only one that's been stuck in such a rubbish situation. I was beginning to think I was jinxed!

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='950716' date='Sep 9 2010, 03:33 PM']It's alarmist and untrue to say there are lots of wrong ways to play, which can cause serious and sometimes permanent damage. I don't know anybody who suffered crippling consequences from playing bass guitar.[/quote] RSI is the most common and that comes from over-playing, regardless of how you play. I appreciate that it's alarmist to say there are lots of wrong ways, but that was simply stated to counterbalance your flippant comment about "there's NO wrong way to play the bass" which is the opposing extreme. However, I at least provided some useful information about the risks to performers and simply offered a word of caution to a beginner, who clearly doesn't understand the implications of good/bad technique, as they are asking for help.

[quote name='silddx' post='950625' date='Sep 9 2010, 02:04 PM']Is it important that the audience appreciates that art?[/quote] Well yes, but most of the audiences who would appreciate such art, go to relevant gigs. For example, someone such as yourself who thinks it is pointless is more likely to go to gigs where it doesn't rear it's ugly head, whereas people who like that art will go to gigs where it is common place. It's about putting elements into your music that people will pay to see, and at jazz gigs, people pay for and expect improvisation and solos. At a punk gig, the opposite is probably true. The musicians do what is right for music and hope that audiences are intelligent enough to find that music because it suits them.

Welcome to bass chat mate!

[quote name='silddx' post='950596' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:40 PM']Understood. But what you are doing there is the opposite of improvising, in a sense. You do not know the part, but you have a fair idea of it. And you are trying to get as close to it as possible based on what you know of it. Not really improvising, just playing along to the chords hoping you don't f*** it up. And I am not winding people up for the fun of it. I have a serious point to make, although I phrased it to provoke some conversation, rather than "Improvisation on a bass, is it a good fing or a bad fing? I don't want to upset anyone". And get three replies. I am genualinely interested in what people think, sorry if you feel manipulated.[/quote] No problem mate. I do think that improvisation is just recalling information you know, in order to fill musical space, whether that means doing it badly when it's not needed (i.e. fretw**king) or doing it tastefully/stylistically when you're really in a sh*t situation (like that gig!).

[quote name='silddx' post='950562' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:17 PM']Really? What sort of music? Is it complicated? Are you a sessionista who doesn't sight read?[/quote] I do read, but when you get sat infront of a piece of music that is written in treble clef, above the maximum range of the standard bass guitar because the "composer" thought that is how bass is notated past the 12th fret, you have to act pretty fast. In this case, it was an emergency session which i was called to do the day before the gig (i imagine the other guy dropped out when he saw the bass part!) but luckily the MD just told me to follow the style directions and play along to the chords written above. Needless to say, the ability to improvise stylistically came in VERY useful on that gig, and a few others like it. All I'm saying is, it's not as black and white as IT'S COMPLETELY POINTLESS, or IT'S BLOODY BRILLIANT. I imagine you already know this though, and are just winding people up for the fun of it

[quote name='silddx' post='950547' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:07 PM']You work out what's natural in REHEARSAL, not live on stage.[/quote] That's all well and good if you're a band who rehearse every week or whatever. If you're a sessionist and you only have 2 rehearsals before the show, it's a bloody nightmare and you need to be able to sort it quickly.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='950529' date='Sep 9 2010, 12:52 PM']As a composer I feel it's faintly insulting to suggest that performing a song as it was written is somehow musically stunted and illiterate. Jon.[/quote] What happens if you write a drum part that's really unnatural for a musician, for example, a drummer? I've played bass parts written by other musicians before, and although harmonically/melodically they may have written specific parts to affect the music, their sense of positioning on the instrument often makes parts very difficult to play, because they lack a practical knowledge of that instrument. I think then, you (as the experienced musician for that part) are entitled to "improvise" and change the notes to make it playable and keep the composer's implied harmonic and meldoic ideas. Also, I know a lot of drummer's who complain about drum notation that is written by other musicians who don't understand the drum kit and tend to just change it to keep the feel but make it less unnatural.

[quote name='galore' post='950491' date='Sep 9 2010, 12:23 PM']Actually there are wrong ways to play bass - any position that feels uncomfortable or causes pain. Make sure you don't force playing if it hurts in any way, read about carpal tunnel syndrome or nerve inflammation in general. Warm up before playing, precaution is better than treatment.[/quote] Couldn't agree more! It is poor advice to say "there's no wrong way to play a bass" There are lots of wrong ways to play, most of which can cause serious (and sometimes permanent) damage. As "galore" says, warm-ups are very important - try looking at this site for more information [url="http://www.bapam.org.uk/perf_intro.html"]http://www.bapam.org.uk/perf_intro.html[/url]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='949933' date='Sep 8 2010, 09:38 PM']There is a down side to improvising and that is it allows you to keep in you comfort zone it can be a mask to hide flaws in you playing or it can take your playing and the tune or song to new heights. To learn a tune note for note you could learn so much more. Once you have mastered the original part then you have earned the right to improvise. The skill of a musician is knowing when to and when not to improvise having the ability to make an informed choice for the good of the music because he or she as the ability to do both. You are part of a musical arrangement the fact that it is working well with the other elements is what’s important . The amount of people I have met who bang on about musical integrity when really their only concern is to show off their musical talents and I use the term loosely with no concept of the rest of tune or arrangement. There is no right or wrong answers to whether you should improvise it are just the right or wrong reasons to do so.[/quote] Yeah I agree. The right to improvisation should be earned and used to improve the song you're playing. Even if that means removing notes, or the subtle addition of maybe 1 note, or maybe looser rhythmic phrasing. Whatever you (and your band) think works best