skej21

[quote name='JamieBenzies' post='1019221' date='Nov 10 2010, 07:26 PM']In that case sorry for getting so worked up. I may have overreacted but I hope you can see how describing my thoughts as flippant and reckless could be taken as offence, along with all the emphasis. Nice rig by the way - there's something we can see eye to eye with [/quote] Yeah mate, sorry about that. Clearly writing responses in a hurry doesn't make them very friendly :S As for the gear, hell yes I agree. Aggy are #1!

IMO this is the best Bass book for a range of learners; The Bass Bible - Paul Westwood [url="http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Bible-Verlag-Paul-Westwood/dp/3927190675"]http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Bible-Verlag-Pa...d/dp/3927190675[/url] It has CDs to help those who learn by ear, has notation & tab together to help you learn to read (or just read what is written in the way that's best for you) and then has a range of content starting at Motown and groove based stuff (covering key players such as James Jamerson, Stanley Clarke, Chuck Rainey), moving through world music (African, Latin, Middle East, Guinea etc etc) and moving into pieces that help you develop more advanced techniques (such as slap bass, natural harmonics/artifical harmonics/chordal harmonics and Jazz/Progressive lines)

[quote name='JamieBenzies' post='1019193' date='Nov 10 2010, 07:06 PM']I apologise for reflecting on my own experiences and responding to the initial question... If you were to criticize my opinion in a less condescending manner then this might have lead to a beneficial conversation. As it stands however, your valid point is completely overshadowed by your somewhat bigoted input.[/quote] I apologise if you read my post and could only see a condescending tone. I just didn't feel that "reflecting on my own experiences" was producing a very fair and objective representation of such exams. My post was in fact not intented for you, but was intended to offer the OP the positive, factual and objective benefits of exams such as rockschool which were not highlighted in your (and a few other) posts, that is all.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1016814' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:48 PM']I don't have the original version to hand, but is Macca's timing on the fast runs around the 1m mark as flaky as they are in this clip? [/quote] +1, this guy's timing is pretty poor actually.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016836' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:59 PM']Ears are clever things. And they keep your glasses from falling off.[/quote] Nice way of dodging the question Fact is, you know music theory without knowing it if your ear tells you the right notes to play. Would you play the right notes just by ear if you got lumbered in a indian classical orchestra? Unlikely, because you won't understand the [b]theory[/b] that is used by using just your ear, because you haven't been exposed to it in the same wasy as you have with western tonal systems. The same is said of children. If you gave them a small bass/guitar/instrument, they don't play all the "correct" notes and rhythms, they just bash the instrument, because they haven't had enough experience (on ANY level) to understand the theory behind our tonal system (or the way in which you produce sound from the instrument), and then take that theory and apply it appropriately in a musical setting (like you or I can). Fact is, if you can play "correct" notes by ear, then you know the theory behind it on [b]some[/b] level.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016822' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:53 PM']But playing the correct notes doesn't need a knowledge of theory. Your ear should tell you if the notes are wrong.[/quote] How does your ear know what the correct note/s?

[quote name='silddx' post='1016815' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:48 PM']Ah sorry, it's that things like that have actually been said on here about us illiterate folk, I assumed you meant it, I apologise.[/quote] The problem with these types of threads is that they divide bassists! We should unite as bass players and use this destructive energy to rid the world of guitards... We'll just have 6 string basses to fill the void. They would do a better job anyway

[quote name='silddx' post='1016782' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:24 PM']I will try not to descend into profanity, but that statement, if you meant it, is one of the most condescending and arrogant statements I think I've come across on here recently. And it says an enormous amount about your personality and your approach to music. Really disappointing [/quote] Haha. I was just joking. I actually play in a classic rock "originals band" and it's one of the best gigs I have. I'm just trying to highlight how stupid and outrageous most of the posts on here are. If it makes you feel any better, I'd also rather have my ears cheesegrated off than listen to the modal jazz groups (including mine) who would happily play to their guitar neck all night long and play all of the notes in the "wrong" key, just to make themselves look clevererererer. At the end of the day, why don't we all just do what we think is good for us as individuals and stop trying to goad people into arguments about nothing?

[quote name='peteb' post='1016748' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:05 PM']Come on - that's rubbish mate! If you can find something genuinely new or fresh with those three chords, then that CAN make it very interesting indeed That is where the real talent is my friend....[/quote] I apologise... it would appear my sarcasm was lost in that post. Just trying to be an obvious wind-up merchant to add to the ridiculous nature of this pointless thread. In fact, I don't think bass players should learn to read bass clef or learn to groove. We should all just become singers and solve the world's need for more of these fines individuals

[quote name='silddx' post='1016711' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:47 PM']That is wonderful, for YOU. A theatre tour sounds like hell for me, it is absolutely NOT what I got into music for. I like rocking out on a stage and pumping out original music, that's what [b]I[/b] like to do.[/quote] It's a matter of opinion at the end of the day. I'd be very happy listening to a tribute act who were really accurate in their exact musical copies of classic songs. Or a covers band who played songs from charts/notation/memory and did a good job of playing a song I knew to a good standard. Or a band who created good music. Good MUSIC, regardless of it's origin! However, I'd rather cheesegrate my ears off than listen to a sloppy, egotistical rock band that play "original music"... Just because you can find a different permutation of the three power chords you know, doesn't make it original or interesting.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1016679' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:31 PM']I bet he can't [/quote] I bet he could if he just "felt" it like silddx Who needs theory to play complex time signatures. Subdivisions were just created for all the beginners who couldn't "feel" 5/8 against 11/8. Bloody amateurs!

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1016424' date='Nov 8 2010, 02:49 PM']Oh my word. Do Fender know about this new change of direction? [/quote] Yup. Watch from about 6:55 minutes in and that should explain all about how Leo designed Fender parts to be interchangable.

And we're back to the massively subjective arguments, irrelevant opinions regarding specific cases that prove nothing and of course, the classic sweeping generalisations. The fact is, a groove is created through practical application of elemetns such as rhythm, melody/harmony and instrumental technique. Therefore, a "versus" comparison is impossible. The only other fact is, how you learn the elements you need to groove is not important, whether you like/dislike the outcome is not important and whether you've seen sh*t players who knew loads about theory (or visa versa) is not important.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='1015637' date='Nov 7 2010, 08:04 PM']So have I However, that shows they are not geniuses of music theory, as they lack rhythm skills, and the skills to apply whatever intellectual knowledge they may have acquired. It's like uni students who have all the books and can recite things from books and equations verbatim, but as soon as someone asks them to use that info to solve a problem. they get stuck on the first line. It's not the theory that is at fault, it's the player's lack of ability to use it. Theory is just a tool at the end of the day. Those who say they know loads about theory but can't play should not discourage people from learning theory.[/quote] MASSIVE +1

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1015628' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:58 PM']I have witnessed musicians that are geniuses of theory that can't play in time or improvise.[/quote] That, however, is based on your opinion and the subjectivity of your opinion based on YOUR personal theoretical knowledge. For all you know, they may be playing a groove that to you sounds bad, but is actually a very very complex polyrhythmic groove based on advanced theory or complex rhythmic patterns. The fact is, theory and groove are linked together. Whether your opinion reflects this, is irrelevant.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1015610' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:50 PM']Sorry, but I disagree. How can it be impossible to groove without theory? Play one note, in time, with a groove, and you have the audience hooked.[/quote] Okay. You must know SOME theory to pick up a bass. Whether that is the motorskills to be able to use the bass, or knowing that the note you're basing your groove on is "in key" or the rhythmic patterns that you choose to use within the groove. Playing a rhythmic pattern that "grooves" against a drummer means that you have an understanding of theory (even if that's just through years of learning by ear and listening to grooves by other bass players and copying them) You might not understand the theory, but you can copy and apply it, which means theory and groove are linked so closely that they cannot be considered as two elements in order for you to pit them against each other. It's both, or nothing...

[quote name='chrisd24' post='1015607' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:48 PM']Neither body is loaded and the neck I already have to put on it is a jap fender one. Both are immaculate and the same price.[/quote] I'd guess that the Fender neck and the Fender body will fit together perfectly, as they will have been cut to very specific measurements specific to Fender factories because Fender designed their parts to be interchangable in case of one part breaking etc. I know a friend of mine had an Allparts bass neck and a Fender body and he needed to sand bits to get them to fit together properly, so they weren't a perfect fit. I don't know anyone who has had a Fender neck to put on a Fender body, but I'd imagine that they need less work/sanding and should fit together better.

Why is it theory VERSUS groove. Surely I'm not the only bassist on here that can do both, and at the same time? In fact, it's impossible to groove without theory and it's impossible to understand theory without being able to put it into practice. You have to at least understand SOME of the theory (even subconciously) behind how a bass works/how your fingers produce the sound in order to groove, so your argument is fundamentally flawed. This thread might as well be called "Trolling versus Sh**stirring, which one is best?"

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1015580' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:26 PM']I'm trying to not buy gear at all... Just enjoy what I have. If I sell anything, than money will be better spent elsewhere away from bass gear. I am going to aim to no trade anything either... Live with and love what I have, or sell it and use the money wisely![/quote] Wise decision. You also resisted the temptation The force is strong with you. Good Luck!

Is the pledge to not spend any more money on gear that you are lusting after, or to not buy any more equipment? Can you sell things and then "reinvest" that cash, because then you would have not spent any more of your own money, technically

[quote name='blackmn90' post='1015540' date='Nov 7 2010, 06:53 PM']Rockshool are a bag of crap. I would advise taking guildhall. I took grade 5 rockshool, i got a piece of paper saying i had a merit, that was it. With Guildhall i got a marking sheet which said where improvements could be made. Guildhall then is money well spent. Rockshcool in my opinion is a complete waste of it[/quote] LCM also provide a marking sheet with constructive criticism in each of the specific areas that they mark. I agree that it is a lot more useful to have this than just the certificate.

My old tutor gave me a great piece of advice for this. If you play something that sounds rubbish/make a mistake, then repeat it. Two reasons why this is successful: 1) People like repetition in music and like to hear something that they recognise (regardless of how bad) 2) Repetition makes people think that you intended to do it (because you surely wouldn't make the same mistake twice in a row! ) and more importantly, think that it was some amazingly complex fill based on some unfathomable music theory! I only ever did this once or twice when I started playing. Now, I play nice grooves OR complex jazz, so the "wrong" notes either don't crop up or they are in the right context

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1015491' date='Nov 7 2010, 06:19 PM']I've known a few freemasons in my time, firemen, policemen, salesmen. I was even invited to join a worshipful company of city somethings once upon a time, but politely declined. I can't quite put my finger on it but there's something a little bit creepy about 'secret' organisations. Plus, in my experience anyway, they would seem to be populated by people who seem to need the status of belonging to something as an antidote to their lack of individuality or accomplishment. But I'd hope that wasn't always the case.[/quote] I don't think the Freemasons is really that much of a "secret"... There may be "secretive" bits that go on behind closed doors, but that happens with loads of things. I imagine it's like being in a band. You have a few fellow band members and most other people know who members of the band are and when they rehearse, they do it behind closed doors and out of public view, so they can keep new material to themselves and can work/communicate with each other without distractions and interference. I don't see much wrong with that.

[quote name='JamieBenzies' post='1015510' date='Nov 7 2010, 06:31 PM']I got a merit in grade 8 Bass with Rockschool in October '09 thinking it might be beneficial for music college applications etc. So far I have had absolutely no use for it at all.[/quote] Can I just say something in response to this, as it's a reckless and flippant comment and people could get the wrong idea. Taking ANY (LCM, Rockschool, Trinity Guildhall or ABRSM) graded music examination above grade 5 (theory or instrumental) will contribute towards your total of UCAS points when applying for University places. If your actual A-Level/BTEC grades alone do not supply you with enough UCAS points, any points gained through graded music exams can be invaluable and could secure you a place at Uni (and if your A-Level/BTEC grade is good, it's just a good way to ensure that you will [b]definately[/b] have enough UCAS points) Just because you THINK it didn't do much, this may not be the case for someone else.

[quote name='munkonthehill' post='1015462' date='Nov 7 2010, 05:37 PM']yip the handshake is there, but there aint no process or ritual. Certain words, actions and phrases would direct you to a fellow brother.[/quote] Maybe ritual was the wrong word. What I meant was, you need to signify you are a fellow brother in more ways than JUST the handshake. Which means the learning the handshake alone would be pretty useless, because you would fail to respond correctly to the additional elements, such as the questions and phrases?