Enquiry regarding DIing bass at gigs

[Bidd]

Basically, I have a gig on Friday and was wondering if anyone could help me out with a query.

Usually at gigs we do, I run a bass guitar, into my pedal board with assorted stompboxes (tuner>compression>fuzz>dist>chorus), then into a DI box (provided by the sound engineer) that is connected to the input of the amp (my amp is an Ashdown and most engineers I've found do not like the DI output on ashdowns). I do not use the effects loop on my amp.

Tonight at practise I was offered a rack unit compressor/noisegate (the latter I could do with) by the rehearsal rooms' owner. When trying it, I connected that via the effects loop, so had bass into my effects board (minus my stompbox compressor) into amp, then the compressor/noisegate into effects loop. It sounded fine and it seemed to do the job well.

My concern is though (due to severe lack of knowledge) that at a gig, if the bass is DI'ed via a DI box connected to the input of my amp, am I correct in saying that the amp EQ and any effects connected in the effects loop will not be fed through the PA, as it is after that connection (my wording is terrible, sorry) and so only will affect the signal from my amp? I presume that the engineer will have a compressor anyway for all channels at his desk but am just wondering whether there is any point of buying/using this unit for gig situations. (I could ask the engineer to Mic the bass amp but would they be willing to do so?)

Sorry for the long muddled post. If any of you can make sense of it and help me with this I would greatly appreciate it. Cheers

[escholl]

If anything, taking the DI out before the amp will actually work to your advantage -- then the sound engineer can EQ the sound exactly as he needs it to be, without having to fight your amp EQ or deal with any compression you may have applied. Then you can use your amp EQ and comp/noise-gate to precisely tailor your on-stage sound, and let the engineer deal with FOH. Sorted!

[witterth]

[quote name='escholl' post='914508' date='Aug 4 2010, 05:54 AM']If anything, taking the DI out before the amp will actually work to your advantage -- then the sound engineer can EQ the sound exactly as he needs it to be, without having to fight your amp EQ or deal with any compression you may have applied. Then you can use your amp EQ and comp/noise-gate to precisely tailor your on-stage sound, and let the engineer deal with FOH. Sorted![/quote]
That would work, good advice,
but then a lot of live engineers do bugg£r all after the soundcheck, other than put on a Ipod playlist and mess about with their bloody 'phone. after you've most likley, bought them a beer as well.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Bidd' post='914483' date='Aug 4 2010, 12:29 AM'](my amp is an Ashdown and most engineers I've found do not like the DI output on Ashdowns).[/quote]
Really?
I've had nothing but glowing praise for the excellent quality of the DI whenever I've used my old ABM C110 combo to record or play live.

[Bidd]

[quote name='RhysP' post='914856' date='Aug 4 2010, 01:02 PM']Really?
I've had nothing but glowing praise for the excellent quality of the DI whenever I've used my old ABM C110 combo to record or play live.[/quote]


When I say most I really only mean a couple (not giiged my amp that much!). I asked an engineer at the Masque (former Barfly) in Liverpool why he didn't use the DI output and pointed at the Ashdown sign and said "because of that" Apparently he has had bad experiences in the past (maybe its just him?)

[BTS_Spacebass]

[quote name='Bidd' post='915297' date='Aug 4 2010, 07:38 PM']When I say most I really only mean a couple (not giiged my amp that much!). I asked an engineer at the Masque (former Barfly) in Liverpool why he didn't use the DI output and pointed at the Ashdown sign and said "because of that" Apparently he has had bad experiences in the past (maybe its just him?)[/quote]

Most (NOT ALL) live sound engineers are, in my humble opinion/experience:
1. rude
2. stuck in their ways
3. miserable
4. rubbish

I have met some great engineers who have taught me alot even in the space of one soundcheck. but it's probably 70/30 in favour of douches.

As for DI's I tend on grate on most engineers by requesting to mic up my 1x15 live. While I can understand how much easier it is for sound guys to deal with DI signal I can't help but feel they are paid to be there and thus should really do what I want (without me or them being a prick about it). My sound is setup in the rehearsal room and the sound I like is the sound that comes out of the cabs so thats what I want coming out of the PA.

Perhaps i've taken this a little off topic (apologies) but thats my 2 cents

p.s. My ashdown DI was pretty good, never had any complaints

Terry

[BassBod]

Its not just Ashdowns. A lot of engineers won't use the XLR output on any amp...because of noise/high/low level issues. Have a search and you will find plenty of discussion on the subject here.

It all depends whether you consider your amp's tone settings and sound (plus effects?) to be an essential part of "your" sound or not. My solution is to use a passive DI box from a preamp send of the amp, so they get the sound of my instrument, plus the sound of the preamp and eq settings....then they can do whatever they need to......

[Ian Savage]

I'm an engineer and bass player in equal measures, and from an engineer's point of view the closer to the bass you can take the DI the better in terms of signal quality and noise (obviously if your sound relies on stompboxes you've got to take the DI after those), but from a bass player's point of view I'd rather the engineer took the DI from my amp, as I used to footswitch the amp EQ around a lot for different songs, filling space behind guitar solos etc and it seemed to just be a waste of time if the out-front sound was just my bass. Plus the fact that I muted for tuning from the amp as well, the object of which is defeated if the bass sound is still coming through the PA while tuning.

As far as Ashdown DIs go, the cheaper ones (i.e. the MAG series and the Electric Blues) did indeed have shockingly poor DI outputs, which were invariably noisy and sometimes even distorted. Haven't engineered one in ages though, so the newer ones might have improved - never had a problem with the ABM series upwards. I'd actually rather take a mic feed from in front of the cab given the option, but for convenience and lack of spill (particularly on smaller stages) DI almost always wins. And of course, most engineers won't have more than one decent bass mic (always made me smile in my last band when the drummer turned up with two kick drums one of them was a 'dummy' just for show, but so many engineers pulled a funny face when the kit was being set up)...