New to double bass

[kevbass]

Hello good folks of basschat, this is the first time ive wandered into the double bass section as I have never so much as touched a double bass in my life, time for that to change. Now these are expensive instruments I know, but I cant really afford to throw much money at one, Ive found a 3/4 for sale at 380 quid, probbably made in a cheap factory in china no doubt but its all I can afford right now so Im going to have make do but to be honest I wouldnt know what faults to look for in a double bass, so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Pictures of the bass here [url="http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-gallery.php?auction_id=114067&image_id=588279#"]http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-ga...mage_id=588279#[/url]

Edited May 5, 2010 by kevbass

[PaulKing]

[quote name='kevbass' post='829148' date='May 5 2010, 11:25 PM']Hello good folks of basschat, this is the first time ive wandered into the double bass section as I have never so much as touched a double bass in my life, time for that to change. Now these are expensive instruments I know, but I cant really afford to throw much money at one, Ive found a 3/4 for sale at 380 quid, probbably made in a cheap factory in china no doubt but its all I can afford right now so Im going to have make do but to be honest I wouldnt know what faults to look for in a double bass, so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Pictures of the bass here [url="http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-gallery.php?auction_id=114067&image_id=588279#"]http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-ga...mage_id=588279#[/url][/quote]

You're in no way the first to be in this position. It's almost a daily event.
So tempting to send them your money and have a shiny new bass in your hands.
It's very unlikely it's a GOOD bass, its quite possible its an AWFUL bass - and could actually hold back your playing, once you've got over the initial 'where do I put my hands'.
Also bear in mind you might end up paying £100 - £300 in set up costs, new strings etc etc.

I emplore you, first find someone who can help you buy, a player, a luthier ... anyone.
Then wait, scour the ads, ebay, dealers and find a reasonable, OLD second hand bass. Good plywood basses go on ebay for £3-900 these days.
If it's old, it is not falling apart (probably). It may have decent strings already, and be fully set up for playing.

You will save money in the long run. You will get an infinitely better bass. You will enjoy playing it more. You will progress faster.


Not sure where you are - dealers like Peter Tyler in Maidenhead often have 1 or 2 budget price old basses, and will not sell you a dud.

Don't buy the CCB, please....

[PaulKing]

Buy this one...
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upright-Double-Bass-1960s-/200465964691?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&hash=item2eacb3de93"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upright-Double-Bass-...=item2eacb3de93[/url]

there'll be another next week ... and the next... I promise, i watch ebay every day, they keep coming up week after week.
Look for a 1960s B+H.

[marvin spangles]

I agree buy a good quality plywood. Save your money and get a pro player or good teacher to go with you when you decide to buy. Realistically a decent plywood bass will set you back around £1000-1200 new. Be wary of cheap basses on E bay especially the low end Chinese ones. They tend to be badly constructed and barely playable. If you could rent one for a trial period from a luthier or reputable dealer you'd get a better idea before you commit. I can't comment on the E bay bass recommended by Paul King. However I would try and contact the seller to see if you could try out the bass. Good luck

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='kevbass' post='829148' date='May 5 2010, 11:25 PM']Hello good folks of basschat, this is the first time ive wandered into the double bass section as I have never so much as touched a double bass in my life, time for that to change. Now these are expensive instruments I know, but I cant really afford to throw much money at one, Ive found a 3/4 for sale at 380 quid, probbably made in a cheap factory in china no doubt but its all I can afford right now so Im going to have make do but to be honest I wouldnt know what faults to look for in a double bass, so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Pictures of the bass here [url="http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-gallery.php?auction_id=114067&image_id=588279#"]http://www.biggerbids.com/auction-image-ga...mage_id=588279#[/url][/quote]

Just FYI those photos look like they came from [url="http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instruments/Double_Bass.html"]Gear 4 Music[/url] here in York, it looks like their bottom-of-the-range bass. I would imagine it would need some work to make it playable (decent strings + some luthier attention on the fingerboard and bridge), probably £150-200.

If that's your budget and you're determined to get a bass you might have more luck with a used student instrument, if you can find one. But when I was looking earlier this year pretty much everything I found for that sort of price had problems with it. So either way I think you'll be looking to give another couple of hundred quid to a professional to get it working properly for you.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Patrickhadow' post='839976' date='May 17 2010, 06:06 PM']whats B+H - probably something really obvious![/quote]

Boosey & Hawkes - lots of student instruments were sold in the UK with this brand name (I've got a B&H trombone sitting on a stand behind me).

[harmonicon]

I second most of what's been said already. I would recommend that you first get a teacher and possibly rent a bass or get them to help you buy one. You'll be incredibly lucky to get a playable instrument that you'd really be able to learn on for under a grand. I know that that sounds like a lot of money, but a nice old bass (especially if you sink some money into it to get it playing as well as possible) will hold or increase its value. A cheap new bass will only go down in value. This is important for two reasons; 1. if you decide you don't like it, you'll be able to get your money back, 2. you're more likely to enjoy playing and really learn on a decent instrument - with a crap instrument you'll only be discouraged.

[Bilbo]

This 'get an old bass' ethos is all well and good but, unless it is my imagination, there are a lot of us looking and fewer and fewer old basses to go around. This is pushing the price up and those who only have £3-500 are frightened off by all the horror stories. Also, I think it is important to remember that a lot of these 'old' basses we are waiting for were the 'cheap and cheerful' basses of their day and many of them are not so great in relative terms. The big question, in my mind (literally) is 'is the difference between a repaired 'old' bass and a mid range £1500 Thomann bass that great. I have been reading hundreds of posts and threads like this for months now and it would appear that most people are perfectly satisfied with their Archers, Stentors, Christophers, Zellers, Westburys, Conservatoires, Elysias, Arcadias, Uptons etc etc. I have read only a tiny number of stories of people who have been really stung (literally one or two).

I am wondering (and I have no axe to grind here) whether this 'old basses rule' ethos is a hold over from a time when they [i]were [/i]significantly better than these imports. Like the old 'never buy a Skoda', 'don't buy a Japanese car', 'made in Japan is crap' brigade; the manufacturers have got their act together and are now making credible starter instruments - as one basschatter said to me recently 'it will do until I am good enough to recognise the difference' . I get that every bass purchased has to go immediately to the luthiers for repairs and a new set of strings but I guess the question is; is it better to get a cheap bass within your budget and PLAY THE THING or to sit and look at websites for basses you can't afford and waste another 12 months saving for something that is probably only marginally better. If you haev £350, you aren't going to have £2,500 in a few months time; you may have £500 and your options aren't that much greater.

I have no doubt that these Crafter guitars that are around now are better than the Ekos and Antorias that were around in my day. So why would I recommend that you don't buy a Crafter but get an old Antoria or an Eko and get it set up? I get the arguments but can't see that people on limted budgets should be denied the opprtunity to 'have a go'.

Or is playing the double bass only an option for the middle class (how many kids on that 'Young Musician' thing are living in a sixth floor flat on a rough estate?)?

[jakenewmanbass]

It's certainly true that the cheaper basses these days are better than ever, and if someone is wanting to try then no need to spend a fortune.
However if you're serious then I'd say spend whatever it takes to get a bass you're happy with be it £50 or £50,000 (30 years ago basses really were to be found for 50 quid)
The reason I am inclined away from the cheaper ones is because they are not really instruments. They are approximations. A really good bass will feel like nothing else and make sound that just drags you forward as a player. If you find you can't leave it alone because of the way it sounds and feels then you've found a good un. The nasty tones that sometimes come out of newer cheap instruments will make you recoil if it produces a sound that you don't mentally expect, and lets face it us jazzers have been listening to recordings of guys playing instruments up to and including £60k (I'm thinking of Charlie Haden) and there is a history of lovely old basses littering the recordings of the last hundred years. That's the sound in our heads and that's what we want from our basses....

Edited May 17, 2010 by jakesbass

[harmonicon]

Sure, I agree with this in a large part, but £1,500 isn't £400. A new bass that costs a few grand may well be as good, or better, than an older bass for the same price. The difference is that an older bass (not ten years old, but say 50) will hold its value while a new one will not. If someone is serious about the instrument, they'll want to upgrade in a few years and that resale value will then really mean something.

Example: when I went to university I bought (because of an inheritance I had money) a very nice, new, bass that was made in China in collaboration with a US luthier (I grew up in the US and bought the instrument there). I tried out several basses in the same price range including nice old instruments, but they just didn't sound or play as well as the new bass.

The problem is, now I don't have the space for that bass which I love and no means of transporting it. I'm thinking of selling it, but really dreading how it must have dropped in value. I won't be surprised if it sells for only 1/2 what I paid for it. This is because in the last 10 - 15 years the quality of cheaper (relatively - in the five to ten grand range) new instruments has skyrocketed and my bass is no longer such a great deal. Add to that the rib crack and other crap that happens to a bass being moved a lot around a university, to various gigs, moving all over the country, etc. and it's only reasonable that it would have dropped in value. At the same time, what was my first bass (and then my backup), which is a 100-ish year old bohemian instrument with a crap replaced plywood back, has doubled in value.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='840071' date='May 17 2010, 07:35 PM']This 'get an old bass' ethos is all well and good but, unless it is my imagination, there are a lot of us looking and fewer and fewer old basses to go around. This is pushing the price up and those who only have £3-500 are frightened off by all the horror stories. Also, I think it is important to remember that a lot of these 'old' basses we are waiting for were the 'cheap and cheerful' basses of their day and many of them are not so great in relative terms. The big question, in my mind (literally) is 'is the difference between a repaired 'old' bass and a mid range £1500 Thomann bass that great. I have been reading hundreds of posts and threads like this for months now and it would appear that most people are perfectly satisfied with their Archers, Stentors, Christophers, Zellers, Westburys, Conservatoires, Elysias, Arcadias, Uptons etc etc. I have read only a tiny number of stories of people who have been really stung (literally one or two).

I am wondering (and I have no axe to grind here) whether this 'old basses rule' ethos is a hold over from a time when they [i]were [/i]significantly better than these imports. Like the old 'never buy a Skoda', 'don't buy a Japanese car', 'made in Japan is crap' brigade; the manufacturers have got their act together and are now making credible starter instruments - as one basschatter said to me recently 'it will do until I am good enough to recognise the difference' . I get that every bass purchased has to go immediately to the luthiers for repairs and a new set of strings but I guess the question is; is it better to get a cheap bass within your budget and PLAY THE THING or to sit and look at websites for basses you can't afford and waste another 12 months saving for something that is probably only marginally better. If you haev £350, you aren't going to have £2,500 in a few months time; you may have £500 and your options aren't that much greater.

I have no doubt that these Crafter guitars that are around now are better than the Ekos and Antorias that were around in my day. So why would I recommend that you don't buy a Crafter but get an old Antoria or an Eko and get it set up? I get the arguments but can't see that people on limted budgets should be denied the opprtunity to 'have a go'.

Or is playing the double bass only an option for the middle class (how many kids on that 'Young Musician' thing are living in a sixth floor flat on a rough estate?)?[/quote]

[Bilbo]

I perfectly understand the argument for a great old bass and that they hold their value etc. That is not my point. My point is simply that anyone with £400 to spend is not going to be able to get enough money together for a bass where any of that makes a difference (unless they have a real result with a junk shop 'find'). If your bass is worth less because it is lower quality, a bit damaged and not as good as new cheaper ones then that is as it should be - none of us can predict the value of our basses at point of resale when we buy them, not really. What difference is there with electric basses? I bought my Wal with absolutely no thought of resale and it is now worth 4x what I paid for it. I was lucky. Other basses have come and gone with not profit and substantial losses. More to the point, early basses I had were a bit crap but they held my interest and got me started. I never resold them, they were crap so they hung around until I gave them away or trashed them. Thats life. I accept that, if I have £5K, I should shop around for a cracker. If, however, I have £400, I may be wasting time waiting for something wonderful to come along; that's all I am saying.

[derrenleepoole]

I no longer play double bass, simply no room at home any more But in my very limited experience (and it is limited), there are good second hand basses to be had in your price bracket (I picked up a 4/4 sized ex. school instrument for 50 quid!), but knowing which they are is the real trick and this is where an experienced player or luthier comes into its own. But equally, newer budget instruments are also very good and may not require as much additional setup as a second hand bass (possibly). Which ever way you choose to go with this, £350-400 is a good price to pay initially for a first bass. Better to spend this amount than say 2K and discover you don't like DB anyway and would rather stick with elecy basses.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='840511' date='May 18 2010, 08:45 AM']Which ever way you choose to go with this, £350-400 is a good price to pay initially for a first bass. Better to spend this amount than say 2K and discover you don't like DB anyway and would rather stick with elecy basses.[/quote]

I was in the same position as the OP a couple of years ago and was dissuaded from buying one of these £400 basses. I saved up and spent about double on a second hand Stentor Conservatoire that was advertised on this forum. Since I bought it, I've had a go on one of the £400 ebay basses. I don't think I would have lasted this long if my bass played and sounded like that. Not completely unplayable, but it was a struggle.

Once you've factored in strings and a setup, you're looking at an extra £200 or so. For not much more, I picked up a fully carved bass that came with a proper setup, decent strings and a pickup, hand delivered by Jakesbass.

If I decide I don't like double bass any more, I should manage to recoup the price.

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='840708' date='May 18 2010, 12:03 PM']Once you've factored in strings and a setup, you're looking at an extra £200 or so. For not much more, I picked up a fully carved bass that came with a proper setup, decent strings and a pickup, hand delivered by Jakesbass.[/quote]

I suppose that's the point though, which ever way the OP looks at it, there will be some additional cost. So a budget bass becomes realistically a £500 - £600 price tag, and bass costing twice as much becomes a £1000 price tag. Unless the OP is really lucky and gets an absolute steal bass.

[stewartmusic]

I'm currently in the market of selling my old bass and buying a new bass and i agree with a lot of the points that are made here, sorry if the point I'm about to make has already been said, but i think the basses that are selling as bottom of the range fully carved and made in Europe will hold there value. If not increase marginally because of the fact that so many people go for"old" basses not necessarily for the look of them but because the tone and music that can be created by an instrument that has had a pair of chops on it for a few years just opens it out. there is no doubt that if you spend 50K on an instrument that you will be getting something good, at least its very hard to find a bad instrument for 50k but for a serious beginner, don't cut yourself short. spending £3-400 on a Chinese bass may be all well and good and you could keep it going for a year or so, but by making that little jump to the 1k mark you can quite easily get something special. Thats just IMHO, because its how I've experienced the "old school bass" and the "teachers instrument that you really really want" and the complete contrast in the two, you can get a good bass for cheap, but not too cheap!