Golchen Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Is good bass playing on recordings just for bass playing listeners? The recent thread on Steely Dan and the easier bass playing on their earlier albums compared to the complex latter stuff go me thinking. I’ve been having a go at bass for a few years now, and I find myself homing in on the bass playing on music sometimes, listening to what is going on. However, for the rest of the many years that I have listened to music, I have only been aware of the really obvious bass lines (eg Pink Floyd, Money). Steely Dan is a good case in point. I have been a big fan for decades, although not played them much in the past 10 years as I have all their LPs on vinyl and no record player plugged in. I couldn’t tell you a thing about any bass playing on any of their stuff, whether it was complex or simple. I just listen to them with my ‘non-musician’ hat on and enjoy the songs. I think that bass comes into its own much more live, with proper amplification. Lowish volume hi-fi or radio just don’t do it justice. I’d say that 99% of the time good bass playing just goes over the head of your average listener, although it does subconsciously improve music I guess. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I think you are hitting on an important point here, Golchen. What is the purpose of the bass part in a musical performance? Sometimes its role is harmonic, a means of helping the performers DEFINE the harmonic movement in a piece. Bach's Air on a G-string would be a case in point. Or the bass part of 'O Solitude' off Branford Marsalis' 'Braggtown' cd: totally functional. Sometimes its role is partly melodic (Pino's part on 'Wherever I Lay My Hat' or Jaco's on 'A Remark You Made' for instance). But often, its role is to give some rhythmic momentum to the performance, some energy. That's when you get those great percolating lines that funk players use a lot. Of course, the role of the bass in each genre is also to take its place alongside other instruments in a given ensemble and to asist those other instruments in creating an overall effect. In reggae, for instance, the bass, bassd rum and skanking guitar parts are totally interdependent in terms of creating 'that' feel. Some more sophisticated playing happens when the purpose of each line is defined by the requirements of supporting a soloist 'in the moment', complex lines created as a back drop to music being created in real time, helping to increase tension or release as part of a musical dialogue. That's when it gets harder. So, when a bass player goes off on one with some heavy duty lines, s/he'd better have some musical purpose in mind other that to impress the bass players in the audience. If that is all s/he is trying to do, it will show in an instant, all the bass players will go 'ooooo' and all the real musicians will leave, never to return!! The lay punters probably won't notice either way . Actually, they will either like the band or not on the basis of the overall grooves but certainly not because the bass player is s*** hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Bilbo, that's a fantastic post and has answered so many questions that have been rattling around in my head for ages! Cheers mate! Grahame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Well there is the old addage that if its done properly you only notice when its taken away. Really staggering bass playing need not be busy, or full of clever technique, it just has to be a beautifully composed 'right' bass line for the song. Couple of weeks a go I got to take Plux along to the Brighton Bass Bash and we saw Herbie Flowers playing with his little band. He used more minims and semibreves than anyone else there, and I dont think he played a semiquaver for the entire set. But his playing was staggeringly musical and really beautiful. No one could deny the amazing quality, no punter would notice it consciously, but if you swapped his playing for any of the other people there that night it would almost certainly have been detrimental to the music. And if you'd just taken it away it would have been a bunch of buskers in comparison. It was the best lesson I have ever seen in real bass playing, and I felt very priveledged to be able to be there. I continue to play no less than 42 notes a second on average myself of course, thats cos I'm rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Think of music/songs like football. Bass players are the hard tackling, short passing midfielder. A bit like Dave Mackay. We drive the team forward. If you all play and do your jobs well you'll get a good result. We all know who the prima donna goal hangers with all the tricks and no end product are though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='Low End Bee' post='650543' date='Nov 10 2009, 12:30 PM']Think of music/songs like football. Bass players are the hard tackling, short passing midfielder. A bit like Dave Mackay. We drive the team forward. If you all play and do your jobs well you'll get a good result. We all know who the prima donna goal hangers with all the tricks and no end product are though....[/quote] What is this foot ball of which you speak???? Nah, dont bother, its wasted on me mate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-T-P Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='Golchen' post='650470' date='Nov 10 2009, 11:13 AM']Is good bass playing on recordings just for bass playing listeners?[/quote] Depends on what you mean by good. If you mean flashy, fretboard gynastics or some of the more exotic techniques and tones then possibly. But any bassline that works for the tune, whether it be tastefully sparce or tastefully complex, isn't just for the bass playing audience. It may only be the bass players who can pnpoint the who, how, what, when, where and why of it all and appreciate the efforts of the player and the note/tone/technical choices they've made; but other listeners will get it in a more general sense, even if they don't know why. It's when the bass gets involved in a way it shouldn't that it becomes about playing for other bass players. The irony is that for me at least - and I suspect a fair few other bass players out there - that's probably the least impressive thing you can do. In other words, I think good bass playing stands out by not necessarily standing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='51m0n' post='650578' date='Nov 10 2009, 01:06 PM']What is this foot ball of which you speak???? Nah, dont bother, its wasted on me mate....[/quote] Like the football analogy is any less useful than Bilbo using Branford Marsalis as an example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='650640' date='Nov 10 2009, 02:00 PM']Like the football analogy is any less useful than Bilbo using Branford Marsalis as an example![/quote] There is a transcription of the part in two different places on this Forum and you can hear the track on Spotify. Do I have to do ALL of the work for you....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='650640' date='Nov 10 2009, 02:00 PM']Like the football analogy is any less useful than Bilbo using Branford Marsalis as an example![/quote] Isn't Branford Marsalis left back for Sporting Lisbon then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='650656' date='Nov 10 2009, 02:12 PM']There is a transcription of the part in two different places on this Forum and you can hear the track on Spotify. Do I have to do ALL of the work for you.......[/quote] My mum warned me about you jazz pushers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yeah great post by Bilbo Saw a function band at a ball I was at on Sat night. Really proficient bass player but I guess was really bored as was slapping on the most basic tracks- added nothing. However when he started to sight read on Walking on Sunshine I was a little confused to say the least. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Didnt mean a derail, but honestly foot ball is a completely alien concept to me, I happily know nothing about it, and would like to remain this unknowledgable. Bilbo's post was excellent, if I hadnt been writing my own nonsense at the same time and had seen it first I'd have said nothing, as I couldnt have articulated the point so well - obviously looking at my sorry effort . I 'm sure to those with any interest or understanding of the foot ball then that post was also helpful. For me it was entirely gobbledegook I'm afraid, hence my response. Look I dont even know what kind of bat you do the foot ball with, or how you score trys in it, or what the showers are for. It is a wonderful and mysterious thing that I know I need to know nothing about, thats all. Edited November 10, 2009 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='51m0n' post='650783' date='Nov 10 2009, 04:13 PM']Didnt mean a derail, but honestly foot ball is a completely alien concept to me, I happily know nothing about it, and would like to remain this unknowledgable.[/quote] Football's easy to understand: Basically the teams borrow money and give it to whichever foreign players are most convincing at looking like they got tripped in the penalty area. Each weekend they gather together and fake being tripped up for an hour and a half, then at the end the manager who lost calls the referee a tosser. The winner is the last team to be declared insolvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='650812' date='Nov 10 2009, 04:40 PM']Football's easy to understand: Basically the teams borrow money and give it to whichever foreign players are most convincing at looking like they got tripped in the penalty area. Each weekend they gather together and fake being tripped up for an hour and a half, then at the end the manager who lost calls the referee a tosser. The winner is the last team to be declared insolvent.[/quote] Another genius post! Coming thick and fast today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golchen Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Great answer Bilbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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