henry norton Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm getting increasingly into the science behind the design and construction of bass guitars and whilst I love using my vintage valve 4x10 combo, I don't think I'm getting an accurate, flat response from it. In short, I'm worried it's making my basses sound better than they really are (or worse!!!). I have a Behringer V-Bass as well, but that doesn't give a flat response either. I heard MarkBass are good for a pure, flat tone but you often hear moans about the speakers they use. I'd go the head/cab route if need be, even a pre & power setup. Anyone got an opinion???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The closest to flat (at a sensible price) you'll get is an Avalon U5 into a PA type power amp. However the Markbass heads do stack up pretty well for low colouration. Many s/s heads can be EQ'd to be close to flat but the settings are often hard to find and that doesn't take into the dynamic response (what happens during the attack of the note gives much of the tone to any instrument). The speakers are the weak link, hence my obsession with them! If money and weight are no object the high-end PA cabs like Meyer Sound will perform very well (and mean you won't need a power amp). However if you like how your bass sounds through your highly coloured rig, then why worry?! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 They are all part of your instrument really. Sound is a sum of the parts. Guitars sound suck through flat amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 Thanks for the replies. The reason I want a flat, uncoloured sound is because I want a clear idea of the differences changes to pickups, electronics and hardware/construction really make. I think at least some build aspects of bass guitars have come about because of half truths, assumptions, guesses and hearsay, so if I'm working with a flat, wide response, I know I'm listening to nuances of the instrument rather than the amp & speakers. PA gear asides, could something like a SansAmp be able to produce a flat response - maybe into a set of studio monitor type headphones??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Euphonic Audio heads are very hi-fi and don't seem to colour the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 [quote name='henry norton' post='612531' date='Sep 29 2009, 09:52 PM']Thanks for the replies. The reason I want a flat, uncoloured sound is because I want a clear idea of the differences changes to pickups, electronics and hardware/construction really make. I think at least some build aspects of bass guitars have come about because of half truths, assumptions, guesses and hearsay, so if I'm working with a flat, wide response, I know I'm listening to nuances of the instrument rather than the amp & speakers. PA gear asides, could something like a SansAmp be able to produce a flat response - maybe into a set of studio monitor type headphones???[/quote] Sansamp is coloured by design. Studio headphones/monitors and straigh to desk with no eq should do flat and uncoloured. That's for severe tweaking though. Don't lose sight of the fact you'll be playing through amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) [quote name='henry norton' post='612531' date='Sep 29 2009, 09:52 PM']PA gear asides, could something like a SansAmp be able to produce a flat response[/quote] SansAmps have a big mid scoop. If you're trying to get a flat response then the last thing you should be shopping for is an amp and/or speaker sim! TBH I'm not sure I see the wisdom in your goal. If, ultimately, your bass is going to go through your bass amp, is there any sense in tweaking the hardware to sound just-so through studio monitors? Edited September 29, 2009 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Surely everything in the sound chain is 'coloured' from the strings, materials used to make the bass, etc. ... and I am pretty sure room acoustics come into play. ... and we all hear and interpret sound differently! Wouldn't a better goal than 'perfectly clean' sound be 'good sound'? (Good = You like it). I have seen many a bass player with super hi-tech kit sounding cr*p. I have also seen many a bass player with the kind of kit that is often knocked on forums sounding great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Mr.T' post='612673' date='Sep 30 2009, 12:12 AM']Surely everything in the sound chain is 'coloured' from the strings, materials used to make the bass, etc.[/quote] That's just how the instrument sounds - the true tone. The subsequent amplification stages are where you can have more or less colouration, and in a high colouration rig this may be essential to your overall tone (as with electric guitars). A PJB Bass Buddy plus some decent headphones is probably the cheapest route to really hearing the true sound of your instrument. Or a Café Walter if you can get hold of one here. (Or the aforementioned Avalon U5 for a bit more money). Headphones can be a bit strange in how they represent the lows though the mids and highs should be much more accurate than all but the most advanced low distortion speaker cabs. Bear in mind that arguably the biggest contributor to tone is how you choose to play the instrument, especially as the most strongly defining part of the sound is the attack when the finger/pick strikes the string - hence allegedly crap gear sometimes sounding better than boutique gear - money doesn't buy talent! Alex Edited September 30, 2009 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnwhy Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Glockenklang do flat exceedingly well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks for the replies. I had a play through my old amp yesterday and was reminded why I like it so much. I think I'll go the headphones route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='henry norton' post='613621' date='Oct 1 2009, 10:20 AM']Thanks for the replies. I had a play through my old amp yesterday and was reminded why I like it so much. I think I'll go the headphones route.[/quote] I have been playing through my brothers Marshall JTM 45, and each time I am just amazed at how pure and uncluttered it sounds, you strike a note and bang! its there at the speakers!, just travelling through a few valves and the odd resistor effortlessly turned into actual crisp but smooth sound. Something a circuit board could only dream of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='SS73' post='613961' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:40 PM']Something a circuit board could only dream of.[/quote] Unless it's one like this! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='SS73' post='613961' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:40 PM']I have been playing through my brothers Marshall JTM 45, and each time I am just amazed at how pure and uncluttered it sounds, you strike a note and bang! its there at the speakers!, just travelling through a few valves and the odd resistor effortlessly turned into actual crisp but smooth sound. Something a circuit board could only dream of.[/quote] Well, I do play through a Marshall JMP bass combo and asides from a slight lack of low end it sounds very good no matter what's played through it. That's the point though, it can make a not very good bass sound good, whereas I'm interested in how to make a bass sound better before it gets to the amp. I used to have a JTM 45 - best amp I ever owned but weighed a ton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='613988' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:03 PM']Unless it's one like this! Alex[/quote] Wow, just read some reviews, this is HiFi for bass, (which is what they had back in the 50's and 60's anyway) sounds like what every other amp maker should be thinking nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='henry norton' post='614091' date='Oct 1 2009, 06:40 PM']Well, I do play through a Marshall JMP bass combo and asides from a slight lack of low end it sounds very good no matter what's played through it. That's the point though, it can make a not very good bass sound good, whereas I'm interested in how to make a bass sound better before it gets to the amp. I used to have a JTM 45 - best amp I ever owned but weighed a ton! [/quote] There are so many factors to the sound from the bass and the sound once it reaches the speakers, right from the start when you pluck the string it starts sounding worse at each step on its way to the speaker, so its down to the components and making these less restrictive, wood, bridge, tuners etc, as you can only try to make it sound less worse. I love my 4001 with its clean maple, its so clanky even with no strings on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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