New preamp for Ibanez GWB35

[Count Bassy]

I have an Ibanez GWB35 (five string fretless) which is steadily becoming my favourite bass. Generally I love it, but I am starting to tire of the pre-amp.

I actually quite like the tone shaping available, but it is very noisy, especially if you start to turn the treble up. Also, if I am going to change it then I'd ideally like something with a higher output, so that it was a closer match to that of my Fender Urge (Mk1).

Anyway, has anyone upgraded the preamp in one of these? If so to what, and how well did it work?.
Failing that , does anyone have any general ideas for any upgrade without specific experience of this particular model?


This bass only has a single pickup, with a volume control and stacked bass and treble controls, i.e. there are two holes available for mounting the controls, and at this stage I probably wouldn't want to change that, although I don't mind what I put in those holes (eg stacked pots, or combined pot/push pull switch etc.)

I am probably looking to change the actual pots anyway as they are a bit crackly, so I have no problem buying a complete kit.

Finally, if people thought it would help, I would consider changing the pickup, but the main apparent problem is in the preamp.


Thanks in advance for any thoughts.



PS: Anyone got any ideas why Ibanez would put such a cheap preamp in what is otherwise great bass? it's a real "'apeth of tar" job. Perhaps it was deliberate decision so that it didn't take too many sales from the much more expensive GWB1000, or what ever it is.

[XB26354]

I agree with just about everything - it is a great, great bass let down slightly by the very low output circuit (or is it the pickup?) I believe the circuit on the silly money 1005 is just a standard 2-band Bartolini job, but the soapbar is custom for that bass and not offered separately. Any good quality replacement should do - however you'll have to be careful with the housing size as I think the PU on the GWB35 is non-standard.

Edited July 21, 2009 by XB26354

[Spartacus]

East BTB-01. You wont get a better stacked drop in solution than that.

But if its the pickup is quite low output look at a stacked Bartolini NTBT as you can alter the output gain by a supplied trim pot.

[BigRedX]

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2"]ACG EQ02 3K/S[/url]

I have the EQ01 version on my Sei which is fiitted with 2 Gary Willis pickups. Sounds fantastic, and IMO the ACG is a great pre-amp for fretless.

Edited July 22, 2009 by BigRedX

[skelf]

There are some sound clips on TB with the EQ02 in the above bass.
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429951&page=5"]Link to clips.[/url]

The guys user name is Kesslari.

[Count Bassy]

Thanks for the thoughts chaps

Listened to the sound clips of the East one and I like them.

I'm a bit puzzled though: people seem to talk about the John East ones taking some getting used to, and the fact that they are 'filter based', but no one seems to actually explain how they are different from the standard type of preamp, iether in terms of technology, or how you use them.

The only obvious thing I can see from a control point of view is that the East BTB 01 doesn't let you cut the bass, only boost it which, superficially would seem to be a disadvantage (obviously it's not as people rave about them)


I've looked at the Bartolini (on line), but can't find anywhere where you can buy them online (even the Bartolini site is undergoing maintenance). Do you have to order these direct, or are there established UK Stockists?.

Also came across the EMG units while trawling the net - are these any good?

Again, thanks for your thoughts so far chaps.

[Spartacus]

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='548076' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:01 PM']The only obvious thing I can see from a control point of view is that the East BTB 01 doesn't let you cut the bass, only boost it which, superficially would seem to be a disadvantage (obviously it's not as people rave about them)[/quote]

When do you ever realy cut the bass on your bass?

[skelf]

The ACG filter pre-amp differs from a normal cut and boost EQ (all the other EQ's mentioned in this thread) in that it uses a lowpass filter and a highpass filter instead of low/mid/treble of a normal EQ. So when using a filter pre-amp you are not cutting or boosting a specific frequency you are letting that frequency through the filter. In the case of the lowpass filter think of it as a door. With the door fully closed you have only the bass frequencies present but as you open the door you start to let higher frequencies through so more low mids and as you continue to open the filter (door) you let increasing amounts of higher frequencies through. This is what the lower ring of the lowpass filter does. The upper ring of the filter allows you to add gain to the frequency set by the lower ring. Think of it as a resonance control. The good thing about a lowpass filter is that the bass is always present. The high pass filter works the other way round. If you are used to using the normal EQ it does take a slight rethink on how you use the pre-amp to get the best results. But half an hour using it and you will have found loads of usable tones. The filter pre-amp works particularly well with fretless.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Spartacus' post='548083' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:04 PM']When do you ever realy cut the bass on your bass? [/quote]

That's fair point. I guess you get used to all the active basses allowing you to do that if you want, but as you say, when do you actually do it? I guess you might if you were into solo work well up the neck, but that's not really what I do anyway.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Count Bassy

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='skelf' post='548156' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:37 PM']The ACG filter pre-amp differs from a normal cut and boost EQ (all the other EQ's mentioned in this thread) in that it uses a lowpass filter and a highpass filter instead of low/mid/treble of a normal EQ. So when using a filter pre-amp you are not cutting or boosting a specific frequency you are letting that frequency through the filter. In the case of the lowpass filter think of it as a door. With the door fully closed you have only the bass frequencies present but as you open the door you start to let higher frequencies through so more low mids and as you continue to open the filter (door) you let increasing amounts of higher frequencies through. This is what the lower ring of the lowpass filter does. The upper ring of the filter allows you to add gain to the frequency set by the lower ring. Think of it as a resonance control. The good thing about a lowpass filter is that the bass is always present. The high pass filter works the other way round. If you are used to using the normal EQ it does take a slight rethink on how you use the pre-amp to get the best results. But half an hour using it and you will have found loads of usable tones. The filter pre-amp works particularly well with fretless.[/quote]

Thanks for a clear explanation - the only one, and hence the best, I've seen.

Does the ACG 'filter bassed' pre-amp still boost the overall signal level above that of the incoming passive pick up?

Edited to add:
Just looked at the amp on the ACG site. Don't take this the wrong way, but Ouch!. That's 2/3 of what I payed for the bass in the first place!

Edited July 22, 2009 by Count Bassy

[Count Bassy]

Summarising what I've got so far then, from peoples contributions above, and looking on the web:


[b]ACG EQ02 3K/S:[/b]

I'm sure that this is amazing, but at £180 + I'm going to have to pass on it for now. Also it would require drilling extra holes which I'd prefer not to do at the moment.


[b]EAST BTB-01[/b]

£92.50 with the black knobs. I'm suer that this will also sound good, and at that price is a possibility.
Does anyone know if this unit actually amplifies the signal at all in its 'Flat' setting, as I'd quite like to boost the output as well.
This looks very easy to fit and vould not require additional holes.

[b]EMG BTC[/b]

£78, but a lot of the reviews say that it is a bit harsh and un-natural sounding.
Anyone here got any experiance of these.


[b]Seymour Duncans[/b]

All seem to be for twin pickups


[b]Bartolini NTBT 2.2 A/P[/b]

On paper looks good, and one of those recomended by someone in this thread. Also I quite like what they say about how they build them. Bassed on the dollar price and the UK rip off factor, I'm [b]guessing[/b] it would be about £100 over here, but therein lies a problem: I haven't been able to find anyone selling this usnit in the UK. Anyone got any ideas?


I'd say that the John East is probably the front runner at the moment, but anyone else got any further ideas before I get my credit card out?

Thanks again

[BigRedX]

Considering your comment re the ACG pre-amp it looks like you got a good deal on your GW bass. Was this new (in which case where and do they have any more?) or second hand?

[Mikey D]

I have a GWB35 that has been upgraded with a custom Nordstrand Dual Coil Pickup and a Bee Pre. I sold a standard GWB35 to buy this one that was already upgraded so I have used both and the difference is astounding, but I can't tell you if the preamp or the pickup has added more.

[attachment=29626:gwb_bass.jpg]

[attachment=29627:bass_pre.jpg]

A quote of mine from a previous thread:

[quote]I'm not sure if it the Nordstrand Dual Coil pickup or Bee Pre is the main contributor, or just a combination of the both, but the output is much higher than the stock electronics. And the tone is lovely and full, and very very quiet in noise terms. When rolling the bass (or any control for that matter) full on, the tone is every usable. Just having the extra tone control options on the bass is very nice. I always liked having a very simple volume, tone layout, but the additional features the previous owner has added has only enhanced the sounds you can get out of this bass.[/quote]

I have no idea what a Bee Pre costs but the web link is here: [url="http://www.beebasses.com/html/bee_pre.html"]Bee Basses Website[/url]

There are some recordings of the bass at [url="http://www.myspace.com/daniellabove"]Daniella Bove's Myspace[/url] that give you some idea of the sound, but I'm based in Milton Keynes and you are more than welcome to come and try it out sometime.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='552501' date='Jul 27 2009, 12:10 PM']Considering your comment re the ACG pre-amp it looks like you got a good deal on your GW bass. Was this new (in which case where and do they have any more?) or second hand?[/quote]

It's ony the GWB35 which you can now get new for about £495. I bought it second hand about 18 months ago (through basschat) for £300, at which time you could get it new for about £430.

Hence my comment on paying £180 for the preamp. Note that I'm not saying that its not a reasonable price for what it is, just that I'd find it hard to justify fitting one to a £500 (new)bass (I'm only an ameteur after all).

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='552526' date='Jul 27 2009, 12:37 PM']I have a GWB35 that has been upgraded with a custom Nordstrand Dual Coil Pickup and a Bee Pre. I sold a standard GWB35 to buy this one that was already upgraded so I have used both and the difference is astounding, but I can't tell you if the preamp or the pickup has added more.

I have no idea what a Bee Pre costs but the web link is here: [url="http://www.beebasses.com/html/bee_pre.html"]Bee Basses Website[/url]

There are some recordings of the bass at [url="http://www.myspace.com/daniellabove"]Daniella Bove's Myspace[/url] that give you some idea of the sound, but I'm based in Milton Keynes and you are more than welcome to come and try it out sometime.[/quote]

Thanks for this.

I've looked at the website, but they don't give a price for the preamp, or even say that they will sell it on its own, although you've got one so they obviously do! I've also googled various combinations, but can't find any reference to them in the UK. Also of course it requires additional holes, so I might pass on that one for now. Actually I might just drop them an E-mail to get a price.

I might well take you up on your offer of having a try out at some time - thanks.

[skelf]

I would suggest that the BTB is your best bet. I have used several of them and they are excellent units.

Alan

[JimBobTTD]

I've used the EMG BTC. I don't know if I would describe it as unnatural sounding or harsh. I had it in a restoration project. I remember it being very powerful and I kept it mostly flat or just either side of it. Unfortunately, the bass itself (a Burny Mockingbird) was not what I had hoped for shape-wise, so I got rid of it very soon after I had put in considerable time, effort and cash into reanimating it. It sounded [b]awesome[/b], though. It had 2 EMG P pickups, 3-way switch, 2 volumes and the BTC, wired to 18v.

I don't think I had it long enough to be able to give a good review of it. If you can get it cheaply, I would suggest giving it a try. I wouldn't pay full whack for it.