Jackplug issue?

[beerdragon]

I was reading BigRedX's thread in Repairs and technical and he stated that he does not like jack plug fittings in amp to cabs over 50 watts. rather than hijack that thread can someone tell me if there is an issue with this. i haven't heard this before.

[waynepunkdude]

I saw that and thought the same.

I use high capacity speaker cables with jack end and never had a problem.

[geoffbyrne]

When you get to more powerful amps (& I wouldn't consider 50W as powerful) the signal to the speakers can account for a decent voltage.

Jack plugs & sockets are too easy to short accidentally which could cause major problems.

XLR connectors are designed to carry voltage and be difficult to short.

G.

[beerdragon]

And how many times ha this happened to you, geoffbyrne

[bythesea]

I would have thought that the issue isn't so much the plugs (though they can short circuit more easily from what I've read) but if you use jack plugs into amps and cabs you are running the risk of someone connecting them with an instrument cable as opposed to a speaker cable by mistake. That could be dangerous.

But it hasn't happened to me.

[Mr. Foxen]

I think the whole wrong cable thing hasn't caused any major problems to anyone in practice for a couple of reasons; speaker leads are short, and guitar cables are long, that's usually a giveaway, and the danger of using the wrong lead is usually with valve amps, that will die if the cable melts, which don't put out much power compared with SS amps (and peope are precious about them). If your SS head melts a cable, you'll just get no sound, and the amp is happily not plugged in to anything and won't kill itself.

Something more people should know is how to check the difference between the cables: two wires inside = speaker, one wire and a woven screen thing = instrument.

[Spartacus]

Most jack plugs leak at high pressure which means 'loud' cabinets. Their not 'sealed' against atmosphere. Also their developed from old GPO sockets and have high contact resistance which means they limit the way your head trabsfers power to the cabinets.

Using decent thick cable and speakons makes a hell of a difference as anyone whose tried it in real life will tell you.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Spartacus

[Spartacus]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='539000' date='Jul 12 2009, 11:41 PM']If your SS head melts a cable, you'll just get no sound, and the amp is happily not plugged in to anything and won't kill itself.[/quote]

unless it shorts between sleeve and signal cable momentrily? dead short. bang. fizz.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Spartacus' post='539006' date='Jul 12 2009, 11:47 PM']unless it shorts between sleeve and signal cable momentrily? dead short. bang. fizz.[/quote]

Meh, more of a hum then silence, done it loads. Just a fuse change. Not like a blown ouput transformer.

[Spartacus]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='539021' date='Jul 13 2009, 12:14 AM']Meh, more of a hum then silence, done it loads. Just a fuse change. Not like a blown ouput transformer.[/quote]

Ah so youve done it yourself then and still use jacks or instrumemnt cable?

Mostly true but can still short out a mosfet or tranny output stage in that failure mode which means more than a quick fuse change. Valve output stages can fail open circuiit too, remember. Jacks are fine for instruments but speakons and xlrs (to an extent) are far better for power transfer without doubt.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Spartacus

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Spartacus' post='539022' date='Jul 13 2009, 12:19 AM']Ah so youve done it yourself then and still use jacks or instrumemnt cable?

Mostly true but can still short out a mosfet or tranny output stage in that failure mode which means more than a quick fuse change. Valve output stages can fail open circuiit too, remember. Jacks are fine for instruments but speakons and xlrs (to an extent) are far better for power transfer without doubt.[/quote]

Nothing to do with the jacks shorting, was the wires in the speaker touching. Took me a few tries to figure it. The speakon thing is taking time to catch on because outside of pro audio (which bass has increasing amounts in common with) the disadvantages for jacks don't often become apparent. I don't know of anyone who has had difficulties with jacks breaking things (although its likely they did and didn't know), I have heard of troubles with being stuck with no spare speakon because everyone else is using jacks when they've forgotten (combi-sockets for the win). Most stuff is made for guitarists first of all, and guitar rigs don't push the sort of power that it really matters. This is why jacks are still the standard. I have XLRs on my nicest amp and jacks on my others.

[Spartacus]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='539032' date='Jul 13 2009, 12:45 AM']Nothing to do with the jacks shorting, was the wires in the speaker touching.[/quote]

OK so your experience is irrelevent to the thread in this case.

[quote]The speakon thing is taking time to catch on because outside of pro audio (which bass has increasing amounts in common with) the disadvantages for jacks don't often become apparent. I don't know of anyone who has had difficulties with jacks breaking things (although its likely they did and didn't know), I have heard of troubles with being stuck with no spare speakon because everyone else is using jacks when they've forgotten (combi-sockets for the win).[/quote]

The 'speakon thing' is something ive used for 5 years or so after hearing farting noises from my jacks Then i looked at the electrical advantages. We are bassists not guitarists and work to a differnt standard, and as long as you carry a spare for what you normally use then all will go well.

[quote]Most stuff is made for guitarists first of all, and guitar rigs don't push the sort of power that it really matters. This is why jacks are still the standard. I have XLRs on my nicest amp and jacks on my others.[/quote]

Guitarists and bassists have diferent needs. That sort of thinking keeps us bassists in their shadow. Go for speakons, you know it makes sense. Youre a bassist, you dont use a guitarists gear. Ok, use XLRs if youre an old Trace diehard

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Spartacus' post='539036' date='Jul 13 2009, 12:59 AM']OK so your experience is irrelevent to the thread in this case.



The 'speakon thing' is something ive used for 5 years or so after hearing farting noises from my jacks Then i looked at the electrical advantages. We are bassists not guitarists and work to a differnt standard, and as long as you carry a spare for what you normally use then all will go well.



Guitarists and bassists have diferent needs. That sort of thinking keeps us bassists in their shadow. Go for speakons, you know it makes sense. Youre a bassist, you dont use a guitarists gear. Ok, use XLRs if youre an old Trace diehard [/quote]

Actually, I do use a guitarists gear, old valve amps, hence they are all jack equipped. I was merely explaining the reaon they haven't caught on. Also, the shadows are Doom. I am aware speakon are better, and intend to equip cabs I am refurbishing with speakons, almost entirely to make it difficult for other people to borrow them (if they are the sort that use speakons, they will probably not break them through idiocy).