IEM Conundrum ....... possible solution??

[Pirellithecat]

Hi, Mixed results with IEM's at the moment ...... 
Can get all the feeds to sound "good" in my ears ....... EXCEPT bass. 
Probably because I care more about how the bass sounds than just being able to hear and blend the rest of the band.  
The issue is a very "clanky" bass tone in the IEMs' but a great tone from the backline bass Rig, and the FOH.   So, without IEMs the bass sounds good on Stage and FOH (as does the band).   But, once the IEMs are in place the bass is completely different ... and not in a good way. 
The IEM's are Shure SE 215's via  Xvive U4 wireless set.  (I will get these (or replacements) custom fitted to my lugholes over the next week or 2). 

Just working up to using my new A&H CQ18T live so wondered whether the following might work well as I now have 8 Monitor Outputs - 

One monitor mix with "the Band, plus Ambient Mic"
Another monitor mix for a specific Bass output. 
Combine the 2 Jack outputs using a lead taking 2 mono Jacks to an XLR connector - then Via XLR onto the Xvive Transmitter?  
I could pan the two channels if I need different balances or just change each channel volume?? 

If this isn't daft ....I'll give it a try over the next few days and report back! 

Thoughts??
Cheers 
Ian

 

[Al Krow]

Hi Ian,

 

TLDR: recommend upgrading your IEMs. Plenty of options: in my case I've found KZ ZARs work very well and at around £50 from Ali Express they're excellent value. Combine with a decent preamp pedal and a tailored mix from your desk and you'll be good to go!

 

The desk we both use (A&H CQ18T) has very decent preamps and the quality of sound was a step up from our Soundcraft MTK12 which isn't bad, by any means. We are also both using Xvive U4s (which btw are purely mono, so not sure your cunning plan for stereo is going to succeed!)

 

My first IEMs were also Shure 215s. I'd say they were ok (say = 4/10). I subsequently upgraded to Shure 315s (= 5/10).

 

Having read through the first 300 posts (!) on the IEM bible thread, I got some KZ ZS10s which seemed to be the BC go to value model at the time. The KZs with their multi-drivers were a definite step up in articulation and clarity over the Shures (= 6.5/10), but a little harsh in the treble and I found them a little wearing, and I was half tempted to give up on IEMs at that point.

 

I then came across KZ ZARs IEMs, which are double the price of the ZS10s (but still amazing value at £50 on Ali Express), but have been worth every penny for me. Fuller more rounded response (= 8/10).

 

The CQ18T also allows each of us to have tailored mixes, and I've found the combination of a decent preamp pedal and tailored mix from the desk (with the bass guitar boosted in my personal mix) has made IEMs work very well for me.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Edited Monday at 16:42 by Al Krow

[Phil Starr]

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I then came across KZ ZARs IEMs, which are double the price of the ZS10s (but still amazing value at £50 on Ali Express), but have been worth every penny for me. Fuller more rounded response (= 8/10).

You are beginning to sell me on the idea of the ZAR's, what you say about the ZS10's is true. I love them for listening to music and for monitoring bass but that harshness does nothing for my vocals and I prefer my Sennheiser IE100's if I'm singing. How similar are they physically to the zs10's I ask because I've had custom moulds made for my ZS10's and if they use the same shell I can just swap them.

[Al Krow]

Hi Phil, the ZARs are a little bulkier - see pic: The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread - Page 53 

 

You'll read that a few others also upgraded to the ZARs following my tip-off, and generally found the move positive (or at worst neutral):

 

"I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable." - acidbass

"I did gigs the last two Saturdays with them and on those gigs, specifically the last gig, my in ear sound was the best I have had. In fact it was the best on stage sound I have had full stop and as a result I felt I played better because I was so into the sound I was getting." - Woody

[Pirellithecat]

Looks like I might have to give the ZAR's a try ............. 
My "fix", to get a dedicated Bass EQ into my IEMs, alongside the band mix works. 
I just use Output 4 for the band mix (3x Vocals, 2xGuitar, Ambient Mic and a little Kick and Output 5 for Bass.  Each monitor mix EQ'd separately, then combined using a 2 Jack to single female Jack.  
So now there's an EQ'd FOH Bass "Mix", and a Dedicated IEM Bass Eq'd Mix.  Works on the CQ 4 You app too.... 

i've listen to both via Mains out and they are very different. 
I also use a Pre Amp pedal/DI - a Digbeth, combined with a Behringer BDI21.  
I'll try it out at rehearsal tomorrow night ........... ! 

I know that the Excellent is the Enemy of the Good, but it's interesting checking this stuff out  ..... Next stop ...... see my Audiologist and see about some Custom Fit IEM's.
Thanks Al, Thanks Phil,

[David Morison]

On 09/06/2025 at 14:14, Pirellithecat said:

Just working up to using my new A&H CQ18T live so wondered whether the following might work well as I now have 8 Monitor Outputs - 

One monitor mix with "the Band, plus Ambient Mic"
Another monitor mix for a specific Bass output. 
Combine the 2 Jack outputs using a lead taking 2 mono Jacks to an XLR connector - then Via XLR onto the Xvive Transmitter?  
I could pan the two channels if I need different balances or just change each channel volume?? 

If this isn't daft ....I'll give it a try over the next few days and report back! 
 

 

Hi Ian,

 

Many devices do not like having their outputs mixed with other devices' outputs via a simple hardwired joiner (essentially, a Y-cable used backwards) as the outputs can interfere with each other. There's a good tech note on it called "Why Not Wye" from the former Rane company Here if you want to dig into a possible way of alleviating that problem.

 

A simpler solution, if you have a spare input channel on your desk, is to split the bass input into 2 channels - EQ one for FOH and the other for IEMs, and only include the latter in your monitor mix. Many desks can do this kind of double patching internally, so you might not even need any external hardware; check the manual for the CQ to see if this would work for you. If the desk can't do it internally, then a simple y-split of the cable going into the desk would still be cheap & easy.

 

HTH,

David.

[Phil Starr]

I think @David Morison is right, you should be able to do this with the mixer and this will give you better control than any other method. I've not used the CQ so I can't help there. I use the aux to drive floor monitors with my duo It uses more or less the same mix as FOH (except when I swap electric for acoustic guitar where I turn down to compensate for the direct sound of the acoustic) The difference is that I adjust the bass frequencies as floor monitors are boomy due to floor reinforcement and you can in any case hear the lowest frequencies from the PA and you don't need both. Anyway after a bit of twiddling I get the same sound from the monitors as I do from the PA which means I can tweak the mix if my guitarist has changed his settings. You could do something similar on the monitors to create a better sound through your headphones, not ideal as the kick sound will also change but it will give you some flexibility until you sort out how to split the bass on the mixer.

 

If you want to go for a hardware solution 

 

The Behringer powerplay P1 will allow you to balance two inputs from a beltpack headphone amp and your BD121 will allow you to split the bass into two signals albeit one balanced and one unbalanced. The Micromon 400 has a through feed and a stero input which are mixable and the Behringer Ultra DI 120 will split or combine two channels as well as matching impedances or can be used as two DI boxes. It's my favourite 'get you out of trouble' way of sorting connection problems and I have one in my leads box and one in my mixer box. Any one of these will work.

[Chienmortbb]

On 12/06/2025 at 07:44, David Morison said:

Many desks can do this kind of double patching internally, so you might not even need any external hardware

The CQ does not include an internal matrix but feeding the base into two inputs would work well. Slightly off-topic, but the chorus works like a dream for a bass. 

[Al Krow]

I think the key limitation here is that the Xvive U4 that Ian is using is mono not stereo?

[David Morison]

18 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I think the key limitation here is that the Xvive U4 that Ian is using is mono not stereo?

 

Sort of. I believe the OP used the term "pan" to refer to a continuously variable blend between 2 sources prior to sending the signal to the transmitter, rather than the more common sense of panning in stereo.

 

The issue with this is that doing it with a hardwired combiner can electrically stress the outputs of the desk, which makes finding a solution based on working with the tone of the input(s) more important.

 

Splitting the bass into 2 channels on the desk is the easiest & most reliable way of doing this, IMO.

As @Chienmortbb has confirmed the CQ can't do that internally, a hardwired solution such as This for less than four quid is all it takes, assuming a spare input channel is available.

[Phil Starr]

Another day another gig, thank goodness. I do love it

 

With my duo; guitar/vox, bass/vox and programmed drums. PA is two RCF 310's and floor monitors also two RCF 310's.

 

Last night's lesson was just how awkward room resonances can be. The space was a social club in Wincanton which was an old chapel, Really nice open space with decent ceiling height and good proportions but our space was in what was an opened out side room around 3m high 4m wide and maybe 8m deep and a real bass trap. No eq needed for the FOH which sounded like it always does but the bass on the monitors was really overpowering. I kept edging it down, upped the HPF from 40hz to 50hz and ended up turning the bass down 16db in the mix. Given that the bass eq on the monitor is already shelved by 9db below 90 Hz. I think 16db just to compensate for the room resonance is remarkable. I should have cut by more and boosted the mids  on the bass maybe but that's hard to do mid gig. 

 

Of course in-ears would have meant no problem and FOH was unaffected. I have to confess that I find singing easier with floor monitors