NS WAV EUB

[petebassist]

This cropped up on my instagram stream. It's not often that you hear one of these played by someone who knows how to play an acoustic upright bass - to my ears this is a really usable tone if you wanted an amplified acoustic tone for a gig, and Marcus reckons there's no extra tone-shaping going on here. Maybe it's the amp. Whaddaya reckon?

 

 

[JPJ]

Judging from his vocal mic, it sounds like quite a bit of reverb going on? 

[tinyd]

Yep, it's a nice tone alright. Like you say, it's not often you see an EUB played by someone coming at it from an acoustic bass standpoint. I think this is a large part of the sound to be honest - if you play an EUB like it's a big fretless bass turned on its side then it'll sound like that, whereas using a DB technique tends to give a more DB tone. Having said that, I've never played an EUB so this is pure speculation on my part based on a limited number of videos I've seen....

[petebassist]

27 minutes ago, tinyd said:

Yep, it's a nice tone alright. Like you say, it's not often you see an EUB played by someone coming at it from an acoustic bass standpoint. I think this is a large part of the sound to be honest - if you play an EUB like it's a big fretless bass turned on its side then it'll sound like that, whereas using a DB technique tends to give a more DB tone. Having said that, I've never played an EUB so this is pure speculation on my part based on a limited number of videos I've seen....

Agreed about the DB technique. For instruments so expensive, NS Design aren't much good at providing quality video content to show the different sounds and tones you can get. 

I did try an NXT a few years back at the London bass show, but the action was set way too low to dig in like on a DB.

 

[tinyd]

10 minutes ago, petebassist said:

Agreed about the DB technique. For instruments so expensive, NS Design aren't much good at providing quality video content to show the different sounds and tones you can get. 

I did try an NXT a few years back at the London bass show, but the action was set way too low to dig in like on a DB.

 

Yep, weird that they don't make more "here's a DB player making this sound like a DB" videos since I'd have thought that this is one of their main audiences. But maybe their market research shows that most customers are people coming from BG....But I'd have though those players still want it to sound like a DB.

[tinyd]

Thing that I find least helpful is people doing fretless slides on an upright since double bass players rarely do this except for effect, solos etc (mention to the master Ron Carter for this one).

Edited 23 hours ago by tinyd

[JPJ]

My journey to double bass is like that of many, via the gateway drug of the EUB. The biggest difference on arrival at a real double bass is the string height/action and the physical right hand effort you have to put in to get the lower strings to speak with clarity and volume. Having transitioned, I went back to my NS NXT and raised the action up to double bass heights and gained a far more double bass type tone. But, as Ned Steinberger himself says, the NS EUB’s are not intended to be replacements for double bass, but are in fact to be considered an instrument in their own rights. 

[petebassist]

6 minutes ago, JPJ said:

My journey to double bass is like that of many, via the gateway drug of the EUB. The biggest difference on arrival at a real double bass is the string height/action and the physical right hand effort you have to put in to get the lower strings to speak with clarity and volume. Having transitioned, I went back to my NS NXT and raised the action up to double bass heights and gained a far more double bass type tone. But, as Ned Steinberger himself says, the NS EUB’s are not intended to be replacements for double bass, but are in fact to be considered an instrument in their own rights. 

I think you're right mate about not being intended to be replacements, but I'd probably only play one as a rehearsal replacement for my acoustic upright, or if I wanted a double bass sound but couldn't or wouldn't take a big bass to a gig. I hear that a lot of country/roots/bluegrass players in the US even get away with using NS Designs when they tour.

[Burns-bass]

38 minutes ago, JPJ said:

My journey to double bass is like that of many, via the gateway drug of the EUB. The biggest difference on arrival at a real double bass is the string height/action and the physical right hand effort you have to put in to get the lower strings to speak with clarity and volume. Having transitioned, I went back to my NS NXT and raised the action up to double bass heights and gained a far more double bass type tone. But, as Ned Steinberger himself says, the NS EUB’s are not intended to be replacements for double bass, but are in fact to be considered an instrument in their own rights. 

The biggest problem with EUBs is that you can’t really replicate the same technique for DB that uses arm weight to stop the string.

 

On a real DB you shouldn’t find there’s any finger pain as arm effectively pulls the string back. You intuitively use your body to counteract this.

 

To explain how this works, imagine yourself hanging by your fingertips from the top of a building. To pull yourself up you’d use the biggest muscles you have in your arm and chest. Not your fingers.

 

When playing DB with correct technique the thumb brushes the back of the neck and it is used to help you find position. Nothing else.

 

The physical set up of most EUBs makes this impossible to do, so people use the electric bass technique of using the thumb and fingers to pull the string down. This is going to cause you no end of pain and problems.

If playing DB or EUB is causing hand pain there’s a problem with technique and it’s worth getting a lesson to find out why

 

 

[petebassist]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

The biggest problem with EUBs is that you can’t really replicate the same technique for DB that uses arm weight to stop the string.

 

On a real DB you shouldn’t find there’s any finger pain as arm effectively pulls the string back. You intuitively use your body to counteract this.

 

To explain how this works, imagine yourself hanging by your fingertips from the top of a building. To pull yourself up you’d use the biggest muscles you have in your arm and chest. Not your fingers.

 

When playing DB with correct technique the thumb brushes the back of the neck and it is used to help you find position. Nothing else.

 

The physical set up of most EUBs makes this impossible to do, so people use the electric bass technique of using the thumb and fingers to pull the string down. This is going to cause you no end of pain and problems.

If playing DB or EUB is causing hand pain there’s a problem with technique and it’s worth getting a lesson to find out why

 

 

That's useful to know - when I tried one it was on a tripod and yes when I used arm weight to stop the strings the bass did spring back a little bit. I've seen on the US talkbass site that some users play seated with the tripod set low so they can rest the top of the neck on their shoulder to stop the neck springing back, but I wouldn't like to sit all night. I don't think the end pin stand helps either.

[Burns-bass]

24 minutes ago, petebassist said:

That's useful to know - when I tried one it was on a tripod and yes when I used arm weight to stop the strings the bass did spring back a little bit. I've seen on the US talkbass site that some users play seated with the tripod set low so they can rest the top of the neck on their shoulder to stop the neck springing back, but I wouldn't like to sit all night. I don't think the end pin stand helps either.

That sounds really logical.

 

The Wav basses I’ve played (including the 3 I’ve owned) have all had low string heights, so much so that you don’t need to use the traditional DB arm weight approach.

 

Im not trying to rubbish EUBs, I think they’re ace - it’s just unless you get one of the ones with a proper frame (Yamaha, MK, etc) it can be hard to keep proper form. 
 

I think the idea of an EUB as a separate instrument is pretty spot on really.

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, petebassist said:

That's useful to know - when I tried one it was on a tripod and yes when I used arm weight to stop the strings the bass did spring back a little bit. I've seen on the US talkbass site that some users play seated with the tripod set low so they can rest the top of the neck on their shoulder to stop the neck springing back, but I wouldn't like to sit all night. I don't think the end pin stand helps either.

 

43 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

That sounds really logical.

 

The Wav basses I’ve played (including the 3 I’ve owned) have all had low string heights, so much so that you don’t need to use the traditional DB arm weight approach.

 

Im not trying to rubbish EUBs, I think they’re ace - it’s just unless you get one of the ones with a proper frame (Yamaha, MK, etc) it can be hard to keep proper form. 
 

I think the idea of an EUB as a separate instrument is pretty spot on really.

The NS end pin stand, whilst looking like an instrument of torture, actually frees up the EUB and allows you to weight it against your hip/waist. I find it makes for a far more pleasurable and DB type playing experience.

 

[JPJ]

3 hours ago, ezbass said:

 

The NS end pin stand, whilst looking like an instrument of torture, actually frees up the EUB and allows you to weight it against your hip/waist. I find it makes for a far more pleasurable and DB type playing experience.

 

I was fortunate to buy my NXT from a classical player who had this end pin stand as well as the tripod. I can confirm that the NXT works much better on the end pin and does allow you to use arm weight without the bass springing backwards and forwards. The only downside is what to do with the bass when your between sets and whilst I’ve seen some clever clamps that allow you to use the tripod and the end pin stands, they’ve all been from the USA so prohibitively expense (and that was before tariffs). 

[ezbass]

9 hours ago, JPJ said:

The only downside is what to do with the bass when your between sets and whilst I’ve seen some clever clamps that allow you to use the tripod and the end pin stands, they’ve all been from the USA so prohibitively expense (and that was before tariffs). 

I removed the top section of the tripod, covered the teeth in gaffa to prevent scratching, et voila!

 

[Burns-bass]

13 hours ago, ezbass said:

 

The NS end pin stand, whilst looking like an instrument of torture, actually frees up the EUB and allows you to weight it against your hip/waist. I find it makes for a far more pleasurable and DB type playing experience.

 

Very cool!

[Huge Hands]

I have said this many times before here on BC, but I've always found with my NXT that when I stand next to it and play it, it doesn't sound all that "DB-like" to me.   However, when I've then heard it on a recording from the back of the room, it really does!  If you can get your head around that, it should be fine.... and this comes from a bloke with very little DB technique and has kept the low action it came with.

 

As for the tripod comments, I've never notice the neck "springing back" but I as I said I have never really had any DB training so probably don't use the arm weight thing.  I do find the instrument can be easily moved around while playing, ie I would often tilt it back slightly on to the back leg and swivel it left to right, giving me that end-pin feel without having to hold it up all night.

 

I am a big fan of mine!   I just don't get to play it enough these days. 

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, Huge Hands said:

I do find the instrument can be easily moved around while playing, ie I would often tilt it back slightly on to the back leg and swivel it left to right, giving me that end-pin feel without having to hold it up all night.

This is how I started my move to the end pin. Firstly, like you, I started tilting it back, then sideways and I really liked the freedom this provided. The end pin seemed an obvious move but, at £150, possibly an expensive mistake. Therefore, I tried folding the tripod legs in as a pseudo end pin. Partial proof of concept (no body support), order placed and after a lot of adjustments to get it just right, I’m super happy.

 

1 hour ago, Huge Hands said:

I just don't get to play it enough these days. 

Me too, I should make more of an effort. I always like it when I play it, even if I just play the same old lines.

 

 

In terms of sound, if I select the arco setting on my WAV and put a big smiley face eq curve on it, it’s not a bad sound at all. Not quite my favourite DB sound (but then not all DBs give that sound), but definitely not fretless bass. I’d love to have the opportunity to play it live, with others to hear it in a mix, but it seems destined to be a just home instrument .

[Burns-bass]

It’s often worth asking around for a local engineering firm who can build you a stand or even a rest much cheaper than the NS branded stuff. I asked one to make me a screw in endpin once and it was a few quid. A shop wanted to charge me £150 for a replacement unit.